Why do you think heroic events suck?

2

Comments

  • Vladdy
    Vladdy Posts: 130 Tile Toppler
    Sometimes I think it would be better (at least for my mental health) if there was an incentive to use a lot of characters. A restriction or limitation enforces me to use certain characters. Although it is nice to shake off some dust of not so-often-played characters, it is still an enforcement. Someone might say it is a challenge to be victorious with a limited roster. That is true but still not something I really WANT to do.

    Let's say there would be an additional reward for using a certain character (or plural) when beating a node. Even if it is only 100 Iso, I would WANT to use that or those characters. It would feel good because I was not enforced. I chose to do so (or not).

    Me just getting weird ideas icon_mrgreen.gif.
  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    I feel like the dev team has listened to and tried to address many of our previous complaints. The sub length is shorter now (although I'd still prefer all subs be 24 hours) and there are good characters available. I also like the idea of subs having additional characters available to use. If each sub uses different add-on characters that would be fun. I don't mind the limited roster, as with the 3 additions I have plenty of flexibility, and enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to optimize them to attack the nodes.

    I doubt I'll ever enjoy high level nodes with characters getting fed AP by goons. It reduces the game to total luck. Does the Analyst put up a CD (that might do 1200 damage in 4 turns) when she gets 4 red or does she pass and instead let Juggs Headbutt you for 5000 damage? If she uses the red, big win for you! Is the board devoid of the red you so desperately need for all of your damage dealers (Torch, Blade, and Cap) while your foes just gets free red every turn? If so, you're pretty much screwed no matter how well you play.

    (I don't mind the low level nodes with goon feeders since I at least have a chance to take a damage dealer out before they can get off their big attacks, and one attack doesn't totally destroy you, like the Hood node in Deadpool vs. Villains. But now way I'm going to stop Juggernaut and Ragnarok with 13K health each).

    So, overall, this is a big step in the right direction for the Heroics. And I feel that there is nothing wrong with the Heroic/Limited Roster concept as it does force me out of my comfort zone in playing.
  • babinro
    babinro Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
    I LOVE limited roster events. It's a fun concept that puts people out of their comfort zone and create new team combinations...even if those teams are awful. That highly positive aspect aside, heroics suck.

    - too many similar node matchups that we've fought against thousands of times before

    - Long lasting subs that quickly devolve to 20 ISO rewards

    - scaling is especially PAINFUL. Limited rosters prevent you from operating at peak efficiency. Low hp heroes often have to tank colours no matter what. Yet the level scaling doesn't get any easier to compensate. Several nodes are brutal on the very first clear and only get worse with future clears. Naturally this leads to a huge drain on health packs relative to other events.

    In summary. The concept is a lot of fun but the execution is frustrating and tedious.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    rixmith wrote:
    I feel like the dev team has listened to and tried to address many of our previous complaints. The sub length is shorter now (although I'd still prefer all subs be 24 hours) and there are good characters available. I also like the idea of subs having additional characters available to use. If each sub uses different add-on characters that would be fun. I don't mind the limited roster, as with the 3 additions I have plenty of flexibility, and enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to optimize them to attack the nodes.

    I doubt I'll ever enjoy high level nodes with characters getting fed AP by goons. It reduces the game to total luck. Does the Analyst put up a CD (that might do 1200 damage in 4 turns) when she gets 4 red or does she pass and instead let Juggs Headbutt you for 5000 damage? If she uses the red, big win for you! Is the board devoid of the red you so desperately need for all of your damage dealers (Torch, Blade, and Cap) while your foes just gets free red every turn? If so, you're pretty much screwed no matter how well you play.

    (I don't mind the low level nodes with goon feeders since I at least have a chance to take a damage dealer out before they can get off their big attacks, and one attack doesn't totally destroy you, like the Hood node in Deadpool vs. Villains. But now way I'm going to stop Juggernaut and Ragnarok with 13K health each).

    So, overall, this is a big step in the right direction for the Heroics. And I feel that there is nothing wrong with the Heroic/Limited Roster concept as it does force me out of my comfort zone in playing.


    Regarding that goon node, there is some luck involved but a lot of it can be mitigated. For instance, the clear I just did had the worst case scenario: no red available to one shot the goon, and she didn't pistol getting them to 6 AP. So what did I do? Make a blue match (had blurple boosted), stun juggs, and force rags to use his red instead. Get enough damage through KYEC to kill the goon eventually, and I ended up taking maybe 1-2k damage on Spidey and Torch a piece from godlike powers because spidey's protect tile that I got from matching purple using KYEC prevented it. It's an interesting challenge every time, and feels funner than facerolling with XF / GT all the time, although there certainly is the increased variance.
  • Most of my problems have been addressed by others, but they're really, really dull. The same team over and over against the same five Dark Avengers rotating over the same nodes. With subs they're merely bad events, not horrible ones, but they're set up so that whatever might be compelling about the challenge of the limited roster gives way, after about the first day, to the most tedious gameplay the game offers.

    What I usually like about PVE is trying different combinations of characters against a tough node. That's not really an option in these.
  • There's not much point to talk about strategy if you're running any kind of boosts. Not saying I don't run them but if you can beat 395s with double iso boosts then obviously even a fairly bad roster against level 200s isn't that hard either. Playing with a net loss of iso 8 should not be a requirement to enjoy the game.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    There's not much point to talk about strategy if you're running any kind of boosts. Not saying I don't run them but if you can beat 395s with double iso boosts then obviously even a fairly bad roster against level 200s isn't that hard either. Playing with a net loss of iso 8 should not be a requirement to enjoy the game.

    Most teams would have a hard time beating 395s even with iso boosts. There's also something to be said about beating teams consistently using as few iso boosts as possible: I think I do +1 blurple vs Ares and the Juggs / Venom / Daken node, and +1 blurple, +2 red / yellow, +2 green / black vs the dumb feeder node. It's one thing to be down thousands of iso from boosts doing +3 to all 6 colors, but using this amount of boosts doesn't lose me enough iso to keep myself from enjoying the game since thats what, 2 * 40 + 200 = 280 iso per clear?
  • The whole dreaded feel of..."this feels like work and isnt remotely close to being enjoyable, and i dont feel like feeling like that for the next 5.5 days," id rather do something else. I quit after two nodes and havent played it since.
  • ClydeFrog76
    ClydeFrog76 Posts: 1,350 Chairperson of the Boards
    Heh. "Blurple".
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor

    People generally just have bitter memories of the previous heroics because of those couple of terrible ones. Heroic Oscorp for Daredevil last year, for instance, was the worst event I have ever played in MPQ history. Generally speaking, if future heroics are all going to be like this Heroic Oscorp, then we might see more people liking the format. I for one, love to play with characters that I haven't touched in ages, and Heroic Oscorp lets me do that with Spidey / Torch because *Phantron mode on*, there isn't an XF or Ladythor to obsolete every single other character in the game for heroics.


    Exactly. Heroics feel like they cater to the 3*s because you get to blow the dust off of several characters you haven't touched since the last heroic or PVP that required them. After playing Xforce, Xforce, and more Xforce, its a breath of fresh air to play something else.

    Events like this keep me loving the game, and make me feel like I didn't waste my ISO on spidey back when he was good icon_lol.gif
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
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  • Having thought on it more, I think it has to do with the character selection. We're used to using character combos that include villains mixed with heroes. So the limited roster completely changes how we play.

    Moreover, we're used to using our best characters for higher scaling whether villains or 4*s. Rosters are restricted, but the scaling remains the same. If scaling was curtailed to take into account that other pve performances mean nothing on relation to heroic pves and scaling just took into account playable characters, heroic pves would still not be fun, but they'd at least be palatable.
  • I'm going to take issue with the assertion that Human Torch and Blade work well on a team together. One of them gets more powerful by leaving red tiles on the board. One of them has a strong and cheap red skill. That's not synergy, it's antagonism.
    Dont forget that the cheap red skill also destroys 2 red tiles as well
  • 1 Yelena Ares Daken Juggernaut Venom Ragnarok Moonstone Bullseye boring.... redo this mission 100 time to win a new cover is TOTALLY boring
    2 level scaling .... well my max lv is 127 and the nodes i facing is 165 and ...well Those 1* cover buff to an crazy level is unbeatable
    3 Cover level .... no matter how low / high lv the AI are they are max in every ability .... lazy desgin
    4 Limited roster .... I havent lv up the hero you buff and how can i get the new cover?
    5 Release of new cover ..... Do you think of release them in a more FAIR event than an heric event?
  • Unknown
    edited January 2015
    benben77 wrote:
    1 Yelena Ares Daken Juggernaut Venom Ragnarok Moonstone Bullseye boring.... redo this mission 100 time to win a new cover is TOTALLY boring
    2 level scaling .... well my max lv is 127 and the nodes i facing is 165 and ...well Those 1* cover buff to an crazy level is unbeatable
    3 Cover level .... no matter how low / high lv the AI are they are max in every ability .... lazy desgin
    4 Limited roster .... I havent lv up the hero you buff and how can i get the new cover?
    5 Release of new cover ..... Do you think of release them in a more FAIR event than an heric event?

    A heroic event should be those hero buff choice BY PLAYER . Everyone can make choice buff which character... instead of AI select who is buffed .

    It is totally NON sense
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    mohio wrote:
    My take on this is that scaling is the biggest culprit, of course because of and combined with the other reasons. For the portion of scaling that takes into account recent past performance you can often start out with some pretty tough nodes and your 2* options get scaled out quickly. Now I have all the 3* but not all of them are leveled much so that can really be an issue a day into a 2.5 day event. Then you get the 'no synergy' issue and a full 3* team wouldn't even be all that good. Last scaling again...you don't want to fight overleveled juggs and daken and Ares much even with xforce, so you sure don't want to with a no-synergy under leveled 3* team or even maxed 2*.

    But as pointed out oscorp has fixed most of these issues with scaling back on length (it was 6.5 days last time) and having subs and additional chars to use over normal. I actually really like the idea of heroics to get people using guys they don't normally and maybe we find some underused combos that are actually decent. They just haven't been crafted very well lately, but this is a big step in the right direction.
    I'm pretty convinced that the past-performance thing is 100% bunk. I've basically stopped playing pve since the enemy of the state event, and my levels were like 50 higher than polarity, when we had basically the same levels on the featured characters
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spoit wrote:
    mohio wrote:
    My take on this is that scaling is the biggest culprit, of course because of and combined with the other reasons. For the portion of scaling that takes into account recent past performance you can often start out with some pretty tough nodes and your 2* options get scaled out quickly. Now I have all the 3* but not all of them are leveled much so that can really be an issue a day into a 2.5 day event. Then you get the 'no synergy' issue and a full 3* team wouldn't even be all that good. Last scaling again...you don't want to fight overleveled juggs and daken and Ares much even with xforce, so you sure don't want to with a no-synergy under leveled 3* team or even maxed 2*.

    But as pointed out oscorp has fixed most of these issues with scaling back on length (it was 6.5 days last time) and having subs and additional chars to use over normal. I actually really like the idea of heroics to get people using guys they don't normally and maybe we find some underused combos that are actually decent. They just haven't been crafted very well lately, but this is a big step in the right direction.
    I'm pretty convinced that the past-performance thing is 100% bunk. I've basically stopped playing pve since the enemy of the state event, and my levels were like 50 higher than polarity, when we had basically the same levels on the featured characters
    So much this.
    Phantron has dreamed this past performance thing up and has been selling this for fact for so long that now other people are starting to believe this nonsense too.

    It's 100% pure roster based.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yet everytime they have Heroic's or character specific nodes I keep remebering back to their recent Q&A where some people like to decided what characters to keep and to level. The game wants/requires you to have every character in order to play in most PvE events yet we have no end in sight to characters or the astronomical cost of roster slots. With Squirrel girl making it 60, you now have to pay 800 HP from 61-64 to get a roster slot assuming you only have one of every character. Current amount of HP to buy 60 roster slots 23,800 HP. That's 19 covers you could have bought for 3* characters or 9 4* covers.

    at 64 covers 27,000
    at 68 covers 30,400
    at 72 covers 34,000
    at 76 covers 37,800
    at 82 covers 41,800
    at 86 covers 46,000
    at 90 covers 50,400
    at 94 covers 55,000
    at 98 covers 59,800
    at 102 covers 64,800

    If 50 characters were released in roughly the year MPQ has been around we are looking at 100 characters by October 15 and a total of 62,300 HP needed anyone else seeing a problem? By 10/15 you will be paying the same amount to have a character as you would to level it
  • Right at this moment this event sucks because I wanted 3 squirrel girl covers and just joined as player #989 D:
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Yet everytime they have Heroic's or character specific nodes I keep remebering back to their recent Q&A where some people like to decided what characters to keep and to level. The game wants/requires you to have every character in order to play in most PvE events yet we have no end in sight to characters or the astronomical cost of roster slots. With Squirrel girl making it 60, you now have to pay 800 HP from 61-64 to get a roster slot assuming you only have one of every character. Current amount of HP to buy 60 roster slots 23,800 HP. That's 19 covers you could have bought for 3* characters or 9 4* covers.

    at 64 covers 27,000
    at 68 covers 30,400
    at 72 covers 34,000
    at 76 covers 37,800
    at 82 covers 41,800
    at 86 covers 46,000
    at 90 covers 50,400
    at 94 covers 55,000
    at 98 covers 59,800
    at 102 covers 64,800

    If 50 characters were released in roughly the year MPQ has been around we are looking at 100 characters by October 15 and a total of 62,300 HP needed anyone else seeing a problem? By 10/15 you will be paying the same amount to have a character as you would to level it

    agreed in spades. im over the hampster wheel of grind like crazy to obtain a new character requiring a new new roster slot just to use it in the next pve to get the next new character to open a new roster slot lather rinse repeat ****.

    im not interested in any new characters whoever they are. you can easily hit the low hanging fruit progression awards with 1/4 the effort required to hit top 50 and that will improve my roster far more than two or 3 covers of a new character. its just sad its going to be all squirrel girl for the next 10 days before she disappears down the same hole luke cage is now in. when will we see covers offered for him again? april?