*** Squirrel Girl (Unbeatable) ***

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Are you still trying to optimize for PvP? I thought we had this discussion before: her build is going to matter massively more for you in the heroic PvEs that shes featured in when she actually plays a major role on your team as opposed to her PvP (both of which happen at roughly the same frequency) where all shes going to do is be a glorified punching bag while xor does all the work. She's not good enough to be in any A teams as xor support, so the only time where her build actually matters is in the heroics where you can't xor guys down.

I was buidling her on PvE potential. I was looking at it from going against a level 395 where a strong shield would help you live longer, but since green generates AP it's her best skill. So then I would say 3/5/5 or 5/3/5 as the 2 best builds. I could make arguements for both, but I want to Patch combo her so I"ll go 3/5/5 now.

My "someone's optimizing for PvP" senses tingled when I saw

Phaserhawk wrote:

I ask myself this in PvP, if I saw a squirrel girl, do I care about her green going off? No because I have 3 turns to blow her out of the water. Do I care about her purple, sometimes, it's still about 2.5K damage without any special tiles on the board, do I care if she gets yellow off for full 4 protect tiles thus delaying the game? Absolutely I do not want that happening, throw in a Luke Cage and you could have a team that is litterally untouchable.

. I still need to figure out how to value defense tiles in heroics though: Spidey was a godsend in the last heroic, but after match damage it didn't matter as much.

Phaserhawk

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Are you still trying to optimize for PvP? I thought we had this discussion before: her build is going to matter massively more for you in the heroic PvEs that shes featured in when she actually plays a major role on your team as opposed to her PvP (both of which happen at roughly the same frequency) where all shes going to do is be a glorified punching bag while xor does all the work. She's not good enough to be in any A teams as xor support, so the only time where her build actually matters is in the heroics where you can't xor guys down.

I was buidling her on PvE potential. I was looking at it from going against a level 395 where a strong shield would help you live longer, but since green generates AP it's her best skill. So then I would say 3/5/5 or 5/3/5 as the 2 best builds. I could make arguements for both, but I want to Patch combo her so I"ll go 3/5/5 now.

My "someone's optimizing for PvP" senses tingled when I saw

Phaserhawk wrote:

I ask myself this in PvP, if I saw a squirrel girl, do I care about her green going off? No because I have 3 turns to blow her out of the water. Do I care about her purple, sometimes, it's still about 2.5K damage without any special tiles on the board, do I care if she gets yellow off for full 4 protect tiles thus delaying the game? Absolutely I do not want that happening, throw in a Luke Cage and you could have a team that is litterally untouchable.

. I still need to figure out how to value defense tiles in heroics though: Spidey was a godsend in the last heroic, but after match damage it didn't matter as much.

Dayv

Phantron wrote:

From looking at all my characters, all abilities that destroy tiles generate AP unless they specifically said they do not.

I was going to say "what about Marvel Now Magneto?", but it looks like they clarified his ability text at some point.

Unknown

Houtro wrote:

Why squirrels sound like the vampires urges from Blade? Are they evil squirrels?

Any difficult finding squirrels sounds!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b-2TFrx3fg

As much as I hate them recycling sounds(Black Widow has the same voice bite as gamora, who now shares it with squirrel girl, Venom devour = blade thirst), I do think Squirrel Girl's sounds are hilarious(why are squirrels shooting guns? and making venom sounds?)

FaustianDeal

I skimmed to see if anyone else had pointed this out; not seeing it I will give credit to my teammate Gazim for mentioning it in a chat last night.

The crucial difference between SG's yellow and virtually every other "ends turn" ability is that it leaves the board layout unchanged (save for converting exiting tiles into protect tiles). The other powers alter the board, and then give the AI the first move on what is, effectively, a new board. Not so here.

I might just hold her yellow power in reserve; waiting for the inevitable turn where the only match available on the board is for a color I don't need.. and I can clearly see that making this move leaves behind a much better match for the AI (or would possibly result in a board reset being offered to the AI). I will throw down the yellow power to 'pass' on my turn.. let the AI take the crummy match, and then take the good match that it leaves behind.

Unknown

The main use of this character will be to piss me off immensely in pve.

Unknown

FaustianDeal wrote:

I skimmed to see if anyone else had pointed this out; not seeing it I will give credit to my teammate Gazim for mentioning it in a chat last night.

The crucial difference between SG's yellow and virtually every other "ends turn" ability is that it leaves the board layout unchanged (save for converting exiting tiles into protect tiles). The other powers alter the board, and then give the AI the first move on what is, effectively, a new board. Not so here.

I might just hold her yellow power in reserve; waiting for the inevitable turn where the only match available on the board is for a color I don't need.. and I can clearly see that making this move leaves behind a much better match for the AI (or would possibly result in a board reset being offered to the AI). I will throw down the yellow power to 'pass' on my turn.. let the AI take the crummy match, and then take the good match that it leaves behind.

Getting use out of this is literally urban legend stuff, though I think I had one such case occurring in the team up node. At any rate it's not that ends the turn is a big deal (it is, but it can be dealt with), it just doesn't do a lot because 1000 protect doesn't make much of a difference against any hard hitting guy and is way overkill against anything less. A level 300+ guy is still going to more or less one shot you through 1000 worth of protect, and due to the recent nerf on high level match damage you can actually take their 300 damage match 3s for a decent amount of time. You can roughly say ends the turn is like adding an extra match to the cost of something so it's roughly a 4 match move and it sure isn't canceling out any 4 match moves at the high end. It's actually decent against all AEs except Rage of the Panther (cancels out about 33% damage for similar cost). Even Call the Storm will end up doing about half the damage but moves that hit the whole team usually isn't what you're really worried about, and the one you're worried about (ROTP) it's not enough.

Unknown

Really seems like she's ideal for the next run of Enemy of the State or other survival nodes featuring those annoying ninjas. Her purple can deal with the Attack & protect tiles they generate. Her green can play well with Daken & Falcon, while potentially disarming Caltrops traps. Her yellow also works well for eliminating match damage when a non-goon wave occurs. She can also pair well with LCap who shines in survival nodes.

Unknown

So it turns out that when she's boosted to 200, like the loaner, yellow drops 1004 worth of shields in 4 tiles.

That is a pretty ridiculous amount of armor, specially for 9 ap. I say that's her best power.

Unknown

She's not a core PVP character. Shields are next to useless on PVP defense, Pink is too conditional, Green too expensive.
Her utility looks to be the ability to reduce damage in PVE nodes when you're running through a ton of them, but actually have some damage unlike Spiderman. She seems more like a niche character when your PVE combination doesn't have anything useful on Yellow or Pink.

I doubt we're going to be seeing much of her as an opponent.

Phaserhawk

ark123 wrote:

So it turns out that when she's boosted to 200, like the loaner, yellow drops 1004 worth of shields in 4 tiles.

That is a pretty ridiculous amount of armor, specially for 9 ap. I say that's her best power.

It may be, but Green is up there too. Essentially this skill is like Lightning Strike and World Rupture combined.

I wrote up on my last one, before I was all about 5/5/3 but knowing that green generates AP, it completely changes the skill. There are only 3 builds for her and they are predicated on purple.

5/3/5, 3/5/5, 5/5/3...duh

Playing with the loaner, Green is way better than I thought and almost too good not to max or use in PvE, the question to me is her purple. Yellow goes from stopping 417 damag at level 3 to almost 1K worth of damage at level 5. And purple goes from okay to massive damage from 3 to 5 but it's conditional. She will come down to what you already have currently. Max yellow allows you to lose 3 tiles and still block match damage, where as level 3 you need to have 2 on the board to do so. Green and yellow are always good, but purple is not, but...are the times when purple is amazing worth the times it's not?

Lets just play her in PvE since as NorthernPolarity has stated she's not PvP material. Let's also assume no 4*'s are available to you, what is going to be the best use for her.

2 or 3 Goons--3/5/5 is probably preferable so you can do the most damage
1 or 3 characters--this is where it gets dicey. Say you are going up against a Daken, well 5/5/3 might work best as you get the full damage against him with purple, and you can use yellow to block 1/2 to 1/3rd of that Chemical Reaction damage vs. say a 3/5/5 where you can only stop about 10% of it, but if you have a Bullseye you might want 3/5/5 since you can take him out better with that.

As you can see as like most characters it really is preference and current lineup. Sometimes you would be better off with 5/3/5 if you aren't going against special tile characters and other times 3/5/5 or 5/5/3 are going to serve you better due to slow teams vs. fast or board shakeup etc.

Let's look at the top PvE enemies and see where she would fall, lets assume its 1 character and 2 goons, goons just create heals an pisotls lets say, no strike tiles. I'm doing this too for myself so end result is new to me.

Bullseye--3/5/5
Daken--5/5/3 is probably best, you don't want to match green because it feeds him, however you may want to trigger green to get tiles to nuke him with purple so 3/5/5 could be vialbe especially with a quick yellow.
Moonstone--5/3/5
Rags--5/3/5
Ares--5/3/5--with nothing to trigger purple, blocking damage will be your friend
Juggs--5/3/5
Venom--5/3/5
Hood--5/3/5
Yelena--5/3/5

As you can see, her purple doesn't really help you very much if no one drops protect or strike tiles, however as we know most times you have a bullseye or daken. Her purple combos with Patch so you can get an interesting combo there, however as someone said when the Ninjas' show up she could be very helpful, but then again so can Daredevil and he removes the tiles.

The more I think about it, I'm leaning a little bit more towards 5/3/5 but I wish I could see her full stats at level 3 and 4.

And while it isn't always a good idea too, if you opted to optimze her for only when she's featured in PvP, knowing you will be fighting SG/4hor/Xforce, her green will be non-useable, her purple would only be a direct damage skill that won't trigger the bonus damage, but her yellow, if it goes off very early, would block probably 1200 to 1500 damage with each tile with around a 300 to 375 value. That would be the most annoying in PvP, so perhaps yellow is worth the 5 levels indeed as it still play well in PvE. So it's safe to say in current meta PvP 5/5/3 is the only viable build
in PvE though 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 are the better builds which then again really comes down to how you value her purple.

Unknown

The more I think about it, I'm leaning a little bit more towards 5/3/5 but I wish I could see her full stats at level 3 and 4.

And while it isn't always a good idea too, if you opted to optimze her for only when she's featured in PvP, knowing you will be fighting SG/4hor/Xforce, her green will be non-useable, her purple would only be a direct damage skill that won't trigger the bonus damage, but her yellow, if it goes off very early, would block probably 1200 to 1500 damage with each tile with around a 300 to 375 value. That would be the most annoying in PvP, so perhaps yellow is worth the 5 levels indeed as it still play well in PvE. So it's safe to say in current meta PvP 5/5/3 is the only viable build
in PvE though 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 are the better builds which then again really comes down to how you value her purple.

Keep in mind that in her featured PVP her purple won't be totally useless since the enemy SG's will drop yellow protect tiles so you can use her purple to attack then 4hor's yellow to get rid of them, leaving charged tiles to feed into putting down your own protect tiles.

Phaserhawk

Red Panda wrote:

The more I think about it, I'm leaning a little bit more towards 5/3/5 but I wish I could see her full stats at level 3 and 4.

And while it isn't always a good idea too, if you opted to optimze her for only when she's featured in PvP, knowing you will be fighting SG/4hor/Xforce, her green will be non-useable, her purple would only be a direct damage skill that won't trigger the bonus damage, but her yellow, if it goes off very early, would block probably 1200 to 1500 damage with each tile with around a 300 to 375 value. That would be the most annoying in PvP, so perhaps yellow is worth the 5 levels indeed as it still play well in PvE. So it's safe to say in current meta PvP 5/5/3 is the only viable build
in PvE though 5/3/5 or 3/5/5 are the better builds which then again really comes down to how you value her purple.

Keep in mind that in her featured PVP her purple won't be totally useless since the enemy SG's will drop yellow protect tiles so you can use her purple to attack then 4hor's yellow to get rid of them, leaving charged tiles to feed into putting down your own protect tiles.

Right, that's why I went with 5/5/3 as the best PvP in current format. If X-Force was removed, then you have a whole variety of options but if your only point is to have her in the best PvP build, 5/5/3 hands down the best way to go.

GrumpySmurf1002

Reality is she's going to be niche more than an A-teamer in PvE, so without an obvious answer, I think you can vary the build depending on how you'll get most use out of her.

I think my answer is to build her 3/5/5 for max damage and use her as a niche against Daken and especially Bullseye, or as a purple/green user to go with 'Wolverine not available'-combos like Hood/Rogers (with Hood's black accelerating her green).

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

or as a purple/green user to go with 'Wolverine not available'-combos like Hood/Rogers (with Hood's black accelerating her green).

I was having a hard time using her green with LCap, because I kept worrying each turn might trigger a cascade that would kill the countdown. Felt too risky.

Colognoisseur

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

or as a purple/green user to go with 'Wolverine not available'-combos like Hood/Rogers (with Hood's black accelerating her green).

I was having a hard time using her green with LCap, because I kept worrying each turn might trigger a cascade that would kill the countdown. Felt too risky.

I've been using my 3/5/5 SG with Lazy Cap and Hood in PvE when there is daken or bullseye on the other team. I don't remember losing a countdown so far but it definitely could happen. With SG it is a full rainbow with two active colors for each. I like it because I hate Bullseye tiles and this turns it back on them.

FaustianDeal

Phantron wrote:

FaustianDeal wrote:

The crucial difference between SG's yellow and virtually every other "ends turn" ability is that it leaves the board layout unchanged (save for converting exiting tiles into protect tiles). The other powers alter the board, and then give the AI the first move on what is, effectively, a new board. Not so here.

I might just hold her yellow power in reserve; waiting for the inevitable turn where the only match available on the board is for a color I don't need.. and I can clearly see that making this move leaves behind a much better match for the AI (or would possibly result in a board reset being offered to the AI). I will throw down the yellow power to 'pass' on my turn.. let the AI take the crummy match, and then take the good match that it leaves behind.

Getting use out of this is literally urban legend stuff, though I think I had one such case occurring in the team up node. [...]

To be clear - I am not using this as an justification to go 5-yellow. No, she is a 3/5/5 all the way. I look at her power the same way I view Daredevil's purple. I will bring SG and DD for their 2 good powers; and if a situation arises where their 3rd power winds up being useful, so much the better.

GrumpySmurf1002

Colognoisseur wrote:

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

or as a purple/green user to go with 'Wolverine not available'-combos like Hood/Rogers (with Hood's black accelerating her green).

I was having a hard time using her green with LCap, because I kept worrying each turn might trigger a cascade that would kill the countdown. Felt too risky.

I've been using my 3/5/5 SG with Lazy Cap and Hood in PvE when there is daken or bullseye on the other team. I don't remember losing a countdown so far but it definitely could happen. With SG it is a full rainbow with two active colors for each. I like it because I hate Bullseye tiles and this turns it back on them.

It destroys a basic tile, so the only way it should happen would be through cascading. Those should be rare enough if you place them in decent spots.

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

It destroys a basic tile, so the only way it should happen would be through cascading. Those should be rare enough if you place them in decent spots.

You don't get to place them...

GrumpySmurf1002

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

It destroys a basic tile, so the only way it should happen would be through cascading. Those should be rare enough if you place them in decent spots.

You don't get to place them...

Your comment was about the concern of destroying LCap's countdowns. SG's green would only take them out if her tile destruction cascaded the LCap tiles out, which you can avoid by keeping them isolated from like colors or potential match-4s created by the tile destruction.