The effects of shield cool downs

zonatahunt

I understand there are multiple threads concerning everyones thought and opinions regarding the newly implemented shield cool downs. Whether I should have just included the thoughts I'll share with you below in a preexisting thread I leave up to you. However, I thought that my concerns regarding the impact shield cool downs had for me on the game deserved their own platform (plus I had 0.02 cents laying around, so why not!). I don't want this post to be a rant about how horrendous this new game feature is considered by some, but truly just how it impacted my game play.

1. The "fun" was sucked out of the PvP event

Simply put, I felt handcuffed. The climb to 600+ felt like every other PvP event that came before it. I'm a player with almost 20+ maxed 3*s, but have only ever purchased HP to shield hop. All my ISO and a lot of HP came from continual playtime and a lot of effort. With my roster I usually see the 166 wall by 500 points, and the 2 out of 3 maxed 4*s by 600 points. As I said, everything was working properly until I had to drop my first shield. Usually once I drop a shield I'll wait about fifteen minutes for anyone who was fighting me or had me in their queue to attack; at that point I'd unshield and go for three matches before shielding. Sadly though, I found that I couldn't do that because of the newly implemented cool down times. Instead I moved over to the PvE. Well, after going through all the nodes once it's not smart to hit them again until they've refreshed on their own (only way to maximize points). Next..........wait, there was no next. The game was finished for me. This was the first time in a long time that I found myself simply having to set the game aside involuntarily and find other things to do with my life. Granted, the bathroom needed cleaning and the laundry needed a wash, but I can't believe I felt forced by the developers to set their game down. It was a weird experience, as being a consumer of a product I can't remember ever having my crack dealer ask me to "set down the pipe and do something else for a while". It was a paradox that my feeble mind was having problems comprehending; a game mechanic that forces you do put down the game. Weird.

The fun was beginning to disappear because of my lack of play time. Okay, the eight hour shield was just five hours into it's life, so it was time to jump and throw down a three hour shield. My strategy was that by the time the three hour was up I'd lay down another eight hour shield (trying not to drop 300 HP at a single time on the 24-hour shield unless absolutely necessary). As I began to prepare to unshield I quickly scrolled through the leaderboard. Unlike leaderboards in the past, where playtime only has short periods of respite, this board had been dormant to me for over five hours. Not a lot had changed, but the names weren't as lively in my brain as they had been in the past and I wasn't able to follow the behavior of the other leaders like I did before; if you're leapfrogging back and forth with others you learn how they play...which makes competition more intense, ultimately producing a more satisfactory and fun experience. Well, that aspect of gameplay no longer existed for me and I instantly felt that I simply was making a "jump" to make a jump and stay in the top five, instead of jumping competitively for the fun of it. This loss of gameplay experience only became more apparent as the match went on. By it's conclusion I was glad it was over, not because I landed top five, but because it was the most unenjoyable PvP I'd played in over a year. Just two weeks ago I spent the last three hours of a PvP playing leapfrog with an opponent from a great alliance. Our scores were only fifteen points apart for almost the entirety of those last three hours, and if it hadn't have been for a loss on their part (something I could see by watching the leaderboard every other minute to observe their behavior) I think I would have lost the event. However, I put in a final jump in the last minute and came out 15 points ahead with 1800+ points (I think). That match was epic in my mind. I could care less about how much HP I burnt (but I'm sure D3 loved it), and even though I like the blue 4hor cover I received as top prize, the competition was an instant classic! If the person I battled reads this I really want you to know that I had a blast. I know I won, but I would have been more than content if I had come in second because of how much enjoyment the competition was. All of the aforementioned joy I've been babbling about....absent entirely because of shield cool downs. That's a HUGE issue that the developers shouldn't overlook.

2. Heavy-hitting rosters got a big time buff!

I don't have a single maxed 4*. My X-Force it sitting at a 553 build with a level of 231. I find that his stats don't change enough for me to increase his level 39 more times. Having said that, while I have all the other 4* characters, none of them are above level 125 (4hor). Therefore I generally run my 553 Deadpool alongside XF and whomever is the featured 3* of the PvP. Deadpool's red is cheap and hits heavy, while his purple has great AoE damage. It's a great team that kills other teams in under 30 seconds (a must when you're sitting above 1300 points in a PvP). Sometimes I can even devastate a fully maxed 4hor, XF, and Fury team with mine in under a minute. The problem with the best team I can build to remain highly competitive and sit atop the scoreboard with the best of them, is that it has no defensive value. No one will pass on a 50-point team like mine, especially if there are other 50-point teams out there that are comprised of fully maxed 4*s. This wasn't an issue in the past because I could simply unshield, fight one or two matches (usually one when your worth is more than 1500 points), then shield up and avoid damage. However, with cool downs I can't jump as often as I need to keep the pace with maxed 4* teams. They can still climb because their rosters don't need to stay shielded constantly like mine because their rosters possess ample defensive deterrent. That gap between me and a maxed 4* team is now going to grow exponentially because cool downs will hinder my ability to remain competitive against those teams in the new PvP landscape. As I said, I started from scratch and have only ever spent real money on HP. I've never bought a cover or ISO. All my covers have been pulled through tokens or through PvP placement rewards (98% of my covers were gained this way...at least). Now I'll need to start actually purchasing covers to max my 4* teams just so I can build that scary defensive team; this though is something that will never become reality though, as I refuse to spend the money necessary to do so. Simply put, cool downs bring non-deterrent 4* defensive teams to their knees at a certain point and give all the momentum for the top of the leaderboards to those with the ultimate rosters. Our whales are gonna grrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

3. Progression rewards are unattainable.

Last season I tallied 16,000+ points. That was a great season; not as good as Season 8, but really good. I achieved that mark because the game was built to allow anyone with a halfway decent 3* roster to compete with the whales. As I stated in the previous section, my star team could jump fast and keep up with the best (well, not the 3000+ point whales). The only thing I needed was determination and HP to jump with. After the two tokens at 300 and 900 (ultimately always a Moonstone or Hawkeye), the only two progression rewards that I really looked forward to were the guaranteed cover at 1100 and the 4* at 1300. Those two rewards were instrumental in me getting my roster to where it is today. I only have my 4hor where she is today cover-wise because of those 1300 point rewards. And too many times after a new character is released I was always able to obtain another of their covers (one I always needed) in their first PvP at the 1100 point mark. So, todays PvP left me with 909 points. Nowhere near the 1100 mark I'll need to reach if I want Luke Cage's red cover in the now current PvP. Honestly, I don't know how I'll reach that mark. Do any of you?

4. Why can't shields possess dual functionality?

As I was playing the aforementioned PvP where I scored 909, I had more than ample time to think about the functionality of shields. The developers of MPQ have stated that one of the main reasons that shield cool downs were implemented was because shields were being abused. Basically, they were initially introduced into the MPQ landscape to provide safety to a person's score (not their ranking, as that isn't dependent upon their gameplay alone). To many players were complaining about hitting that wall, you know the wall where your points get high enough that where every game you play and gain 30 points you lose 80+ in the process. It was infuriating and something needed to be done. Shields were invented and almost everyone was ecstatic. Soon though, many began to revolutionize the way shields were used. Shields were no longer being used to keep your points static and safe, but instead be began to use them as the main mechanic to coordinate with our alliance mates and hop. Scores soared from that point on; but only for a few. Btw, I would like to share with everyone that I am part of 5 Deadly Venoms, and while we do have a great chat room, I've NEVER coordinated with any of my alliance mates any hops. Never have I used them as points after they've shielded, unless I just happened to come upon them while I was browsing available targets. Many believe that shield hopping needed precise coordinated back-and-forths between alliance mates, but that is simply untrue. The best PvP I ever had was over 2300+ points...and I did it all by myself. All I did was fight, shield, wait, unshield, fight, shield, wait......and so on.

So I ask again, why can't shields possess dual functionality? For players like my daughter who are just making the 2* to 3* transition, she is beginning to use shields. She uses them the way they were intended. She gets into the top twenty-five, shields, and collects two much needed 3* covers. She's never once shield hopped. That strategy works for her at her placement in the game. She has no chance of every placing 1st right now; as she doesn't have the roster or the resources. I was there once too. However, as my roster grew as a result of being able to shield, I was able to start using teams in PvPs that let me truly compete for top five. Now that top five was a possibility the risk vs reward for HP use in shield hopping became a reality. The reward began to outweigh the risk and I began to hop. It was my time. I had put in the time, I had foregone sleep. It was finally my time to have a chance to compete at top five. So I began to shield hop. From that point on my roster has become even stronger. I expect to place top five, as I put in the time and I risk the HP necessary to hop. I'm not guaranteed placement, but I know my chances are good. Since I don't buy ISO that 5000 ISO from top five is HUGE to me. I have been able to level a 3* at a rate of about one every two weeks now. However, I fear that will all change, and very drastically due to shield cool downs.

Conclusion

As I said, this wasn't a rant. All I did was share my thoughts and my gameplay experience with all of you. However, I fear that even though this is a massive negative gameplay mechanic that was implemented, the developers won't change the game back to how it was, or at least to a landscape that doesn't hinder development and actually make their consumers put down and walk away from their product (I'm not talking about never coming back, but instead the now mandatory blocks of time where you can't play the game). We as consumers of MPQ are always told by the developers that they need to see the data before they consider altering any mechanics of the game, and if the data dictates a move should be made then they probably will. However, all I can do is thing back to our poor old friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. He needed a nerf; but he got the double whammy. That was a LONG time ago. Sadly, the most popular character in the Marvel universe now lays dusty and unplayed by almost all. His data dictates he needs a power skill. The data dictates he needs a buff. Spidey has seen no buff, nor do I foresee a change to shield cool downs. I hope I'm wrong, as I was very happy giving MPQ my time and my $$ for HP. If things stay the way they are I think it's a very realistic possibility that one of these times one of the developer created mandatory shield cool downs might become a permanent leave from the game. Once again, I don't want that to happen, but cool downs in my opinion are unnecessary and should be gotten rid of.....quickly.

Thanks for the time ya'll.

Unknown

That was a great read. I agree with many of your points.

This line right here: "I can't remember ever having my crack dealer ask me to 'set down the pipe and do something else for a while'."
**** comedy gold.

babinro

I suppose it'd be appropriate to share my little story of the effects of shield cool downs as well here...

I'm an established roster player.
Have max level X-Force, Thor, max cover Fury and over 20 ***'s maxed.

I'm what you might call a casual-hardcore pvp player in that I'll late join PvP's around 3-ish hours left and see how well I can do in a single push. Often times I'll just shield once. Sometimes I'll hop once and other times I won't shield at all just grind it out to the end. My typical outcome is top 10 with frequent top 5 finishes and the rare top 15.

Enter Earth's Mightiest....

Typical late join, this time giving myself closer to 4 hours since so many characters were buffed for the events and battles would take longer. Fury/XF/(Hood or Loki) took the forefront for the first 500 points or so. Eventually I tagged Fury out for Thor to take down the big HP sponges.

Around 700 points I started getting hit. Things were competitive with hits of around 30 points coming for every 2-3 wins (typically worth 19-22 pts each). This slow climb kept up for a while and I ultimately ran out of steam at 900 points in 1st place (shielded 3 hours). 2nd-9th place were all within 81 points and there was still an hour left in the event.

Under NORMAL shield rules...this would have GUARANTEED me no chance at 1st place. I'm not about to do 2+ battle hops every 15 or so minutes to the end against 8 other players. It's stressful and very luck dependent. I'd have accepted that my score was good enough for top 10 and with a little luck even top 5.

Thanks to the shield cooldowns though I was actually in contention for first. People had limited pay-to-win options to compete with so little time. In fact, I following the leaderboards I could tell that people were at their last hop (no doubt the daily one). They had to choose if they wanted to do one more hop or stick with their outcome.

I gradually dropped to 3rd place but it was only by 18 points off the leader. I had a real shot at first and so I took my 150 hp hop. I wanted a double match hop but it took nearly 3 minutes to finish the first fight and so I stopped there. Not willing to hop again in the last 15minutes for 300 gold I was done. I couldn't unshield and fight in the last 5 minutes because people had me lined up and I got hit frequently (even won one defensively).

Thanks to the shield cool down change and a bit of luck I actually finished first with 927 points!
2nd was 918, 3rd and 4th tied at 906.

This was a close and FUN pvp because people couldn't simply pay-to-win their way into an enormous lead during the final 2 hours. Whether I finished first or not I'd have felt this way.

I hope this shows that the effects of shield cool downs are not entirely negative.

Note: This is just the story of my first experience with the change. I fully agree that the current implementation of shield hop mechanic has flaws. I don't think going back to the old way is the answer. Both have unique problems and benefits. I'd offer my own solution but I honestly can't think of one that's truly great.

pmorcs

Thanks for the thoughtful writeup. I agree with most of your comments.

I am amazed mostly that they have deemed shield-hopping "un-fun" -- that is really a very basic disconnect in that it was actually one of the most fun things to do in the game. Maybe it offends their sensibilities because it was an unplanned side-feature?

Unknown

Great post. My experience is very similar to yours.

I found this game while on downtime from my previous game. I couldn't play it so I was looking for something to fill the time gap. I now no longer play that game. I wonder if that scenario will repeat itself.

I also wonder if developers even really read these posts. I'm guessing no because so many fellow forumites have made some great posts chronicling some of the game's flaws and possible fixes with no developer comment.

Oh well, another day, another FtP game.

Unknown

babinro wrote:

I suppose it'd be appropriate to share my little story of the effects of shield cool downs as well here...

I'm an established roster player.
Have max level X-Force, Thor, max cover Fury and over 20 ***'s maxed.

...

This was a close and FUN pvp because people couldn't simply pay-to-win their way into an enormous lead during the final 2 hours. Whether I finished first or not I'd have felt this way.

I hope this shows that the effects of shield cool downs are not entirely negative.

Note: This is just the story of my first experience with the change. I fully agree that the current implementation of shield hop mechanic has flaws. I don't think going back to the old way is the answer. Both have unique problems and benefits. I'd offer my own solution but I honestly can't think of one that's truly great.

Unfortunately your experience will not be shared by the majority of the playerbase; they don't have max 4*s. Even before the shield hop change, your method of playing PvP was already impossibly hard to pull off by anyone without a full 3* roster. Now, it is MUCH more difficult. Just think about it. If you, pushing with maxed XF, Thor, and Hood, were getting hit once every few wins at 700, how would a transition roster fare? Most won't even be able to reach 700 unless they are willing to shield hop - which we can all agree has become more expensive.

Unknown

This is the second best post I have ever read on these forums.

I'm, sure some kind of changes are coming, the progression rewards are idiotic. If you dont already have maxed 4* characters, I cant see how anyone could earn them at this point. No possible 4* progression rewards and the people winning PVP already have all the 4* characters.

franckynight

They have managed the incredible feat to turn an hectic-paced, action-packed game into a sleepy match-3 game ala candy crush.. Way to go d3.. Only positives i see is that it cuts down in my expenditures like never before.. 525 hp burnt to top my bracket at 1086..my next stark will be bought in months.. Not only my pusher doesnt want to give me my daily shot, but moreover he doesnt my money.. D3 is here for my sanity.. Thank you..

Unknown

zonatahunt

I think shield hop its worst thing ever, and I hope D3 will get rid of it completely
Same like you, I never bought HP to shield and I never will.
I think shield should be use only when you need to make brake from playing, because you need go to school, to work, to bed etc.
Or when you climb as far as you can and then use shield till the end of tournament to not lose points you made while climbing - like your daughter do.
I hope some day it will work like that


P.S. Big Respect for so long post, It was nice to read it zonatahunt.

Bowgentle

hector83 wrote:

zonatahunt

I think shield hop its worst thing ever, and I hope D3 will get rid of it completely
Same like you, I never bought HP to shield and I never will.
I think shield should be use only when you need to make brake from playing, because you need go to school, to work, to bed etc.
Or when you climb as far as you can and then use shield till the end of tournament to not lose points you made while climbing - like your daughter do.
I hope some day it will work like that


P.S. Big Respect for so long post, It was nice to read it zonatahunt.

Except that zonatahunt say he _did_ spend money on HP for shields, just that he never bought covers or ISO.
Also, he's arguing in favour of shield hopping.
You may want to re-read the OP.

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

hector83 wrote:

zonatahunt

I think shield hop its worst thing ever, and I hope D3 will get rid of it completely
Same like you, I never bought HP to shield and I never will.
I think shield should be use only when you need to make brake from playing, because you need go to school, to work, to bed etc.
Or when you climb as far as you can and then use shield till the end of tournament to not lose points you made while climbing - like your daughter do.
I hope some day it will work like that


P.S. Big Respect for so long post, It was nice to read it zonatahunt.

Except that zonatahunt say he _did_ spend money on HP for shields, just that he never bought covers or ISO.
Also, he's arguing in favour of shield hopping.
You may want to re-read the OP.

I dont need to re-read it Bowgentle
Wher you see I write he didnt spend HP for shield hop? I writed he never bouht HP to shield hop.

1. The "fun" was sucked out of the PvP event
Simply put, I felt handcuffed. The climb to 600+ felt like every other PvP event that came before it. I'm a player with almost 20+ maxed 3*s, but have only ever purchased HP to shield hop.

And I know he's arguing iv favor of shield hop, and I disagree with him.

nic13

"Having only ever purchased HP to shield hop" means he bought hp for the sole purpose of hopping....

Agree with most of the OP - a lot of the thrill has gone out of the game.

SnowcaTT

The effect is it has bunched everyone together. It has always been at the very top it was choose your 270 poison, and a little below that pick your 166 poison - but now that very "top" has changed: everyone is clustered much more closely together.

The best "shield" now is have a multiple 270 team and hope that it defends you long enough from the 166's before you put on your actual shield (OP point #2). Agree with point #3 - progression now impossible, they need to move the progression rewards down immediately (including the season rewards, as each PVP will garner less points now).

As for point #1: I'm ftp, so the "fun" has never been in shield hopping anyway. I'm fine with it if it keeps the big guns away from me. But now that everyone is bunched together, it is annihilation time when you cross 600 : that's no fun. It also appears (from my ftp point of view) that the pay-to-win strategy of HP for shield-hop moved to a pay-to-win strategy of HP for 4* covers as the best shield hop - which makes more 4*'s out there than ever, and is also not much fun to run into. The MMR has always been screwy, but this clumping makes it essentially non-existent.

Unknown

SnowcaTT wrote:

As for point #1: I'm ftp, so the "fun" has never been in shield hopping anyway. I'm fine with it if it keeps the big guns away from me. But now that everyone is bunched together, it is annihilation time when you cross 600 : that's no fun. It also appears (from my ftp point of view) that the pay-to-win strategy of HP for shield-hop moved to a pay-to-win strategy of HP for 4* covers as the best shield hop - which makes more 4*'s out there than ever, and is also not much fun to run into. The MMR has always been screwy, but this clumping makes it essentially non-existent.

I'm FTP as well and I used to regularly shield hop over 1300 points. Your pvp, progression, and alliance awards can get you 300+ HP, which is enough for 4 shield hops. Fight to 800 points, then shield hop, picking up 100-120 points each time, and you are at 1300 points. 300 HP for a 4* cover was always money well spent.

SnowcaTT

rooter wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

As for point #1: I'm ftp, so the "fun" has never been in shield hopping anyway. I'm fine with it if it keeps the big guns away from me. But now that everyone is bunched together, it is annihilation time when you cross 600 : that's no fun. It also appears (from my ftp point of view) that the pay-to-win strategy of HP for shield-hop moved to a pay-to-win strategy of HP for 4* covers as the best shield hop - which makes more 4*'s out there than ever, and is also not much fun to run into. The MMR has always been screwy, but this clumping makes it essentially non-existent.

I'm FTP as well and I used to regularly shield hop over 1300 points. Your pvp, progression, and alliance awards can get you 300+ HP, which is enough for 4 shield hops. Fight to 800 points, then shield hop, picking up 100-120 points each time, and you are at 1300 points. 300 HP for a 4* cover was always money well spent.

I guess I should put down how long FTP? I know once you are a "long-timer", HP flows a bit more freely. I don't have any 166's so when I hit the wall at 600, no reason to fight further.

Saving (not earning) 300 HP is about a two week proposition for me: doing one shield became a necessity when they changed MMR (and even more now with no hops for the heavies), and to this day I hate seeing that 75 HP go. It just goes to show the change hurts the little guy more than the established roster: those building rosters really need that HP, established roster doesn't mind spending again and again. A better change would be one free 3-hour shield, and more expensive longer or 2nd shields.

mohio

SnowcaTT wrote:

rooter wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

As for point #1: I'm ftp, so the "fun" has never been in shield hopping anyway. I'm fine with it if it keeps the big guns away from me. But now that everyone is bunched together, it is annihilation time when you cross 600 : that's no fun. It also appears (from my ftp point of view) that the pay-to-win strategy of HP for shield-hop moved to a pay-to-win strategy of HP for 4* covers as the best shield hop - which makes more 4*'s out there than ever, and is also not much fun to run into. The MMR has always been screwy, but this clumping makes it essentially non-existent.

I'm FTP as well and I used to regularly shield hop over 1300 points. Your pvp, progression, and alliance awards can get you 300+ HP, which is enough for 4 shield hops. Fight to 800 points, then shield hop, picking up 100-120 points each time, and you are at 1300 points. 300 HP for a 4* cover was always money well spent.

I guess I should put down how long FTP? I know once you are a "long-timer", HP flows a bit more freely. I don't have any 166's so when I hit the wall at 600, no reason to fight further.

Saving (not earning) 300 HP is about a two week proposition for me: doing one shield became a necessity when they changed MMR (and even more now with no hops for the heavies), and to this day I hate seeing that 75 HP go. It just goes to show the change hurts the little guy more than the established roster: those building rosters really need that HP, established roster doesn't mind spending again and again. A better change would be one free 3-hour shield, and more expensive longer or 2nd shields.

Yeah, this makes sense. I'm in the same boat as rooter - F2P from day 1, and it took quite a couple months before I felt comfortable using more than just a 3-hour shield at the end of an event. You have to be ahead on HP every event just to get enough for the new character every 2 weeks, and if you don't already have all the rest you probably still need to save in case you get those. Anyway, now that I'm 300+ days in it's pretty easy to get enough HP to do what rooter was saying and still gain HP through PvE, etc. Basically you have to be able to consistently hit the HP at 800 or else it's going to be a losing proposition.

Unknown

Good post!

I don't want to be too negative. Something had to change with the shield hopping, but not being able to pick up and play is not a great solution.

For now though I definitely think there should be a way to see how long's left on the cool downs. Once shielded, there seems to be no way to work it out.
I don't want to start having to make calendar appointments on when I can play!!

pmorcs

I have been thinking today about writing a separate iphone app to manage my shield expirations & cooldowns (in part because Demiurge has not seen fit to include the ability to look at your shield status while shielded.)

...

Upon further reflection, that is really just the wrong way for things to be going. That said, I now have plenty of free time to do it.

Unknown

bahukma wrote:

That was a great read. I agree with many of your points.

This line right here: "I can't remember ever having my crack dealer ask me to 'set down the pipe and do something else for a while'."
tinykitty comedy gold.

Except that if a crack dealer DID tell you to put the pipe down and do something else, it would be a good thing.

I don't care about the issue either way, but comparing your lack of playtime with addictive substances doesn't help your argument much.

Moon Roach

When cool downs were first announced, the example was given of 8 hour cool down for an 8 hour shield. I took that as meaning each shield would have a cool down equal to its duration. Though it was (intentionally? (*)) ambiguous, in that it could also be taken to mean that each shield would have a cool down of 8 hours. But it couldn't mean that, as that would be ridiculous.

Having a 3 hour shield that you couldn't renew until its expiry time seemed as sensible as you could get, if you were going to implement something like that. Having a 3 hour shield that you can't renew until 5 hours after its expiry time? That's approaching genius. From the far side. Stupid, that is.

I'm looking forward to the introduction of being able to pay to remove the cool down period using HP, as we have when we can call team-ups back. It's coming...



(*) Off-topic slightly, that announcement was typical of what we get from DemiUrge; something unclear and open to multiple interpretations. It's almost as if they want us to debate the possible meanings, then they stick with the one thought most ridiculously stupid and harmful.

(**) I do not like the concept of cool downs as implemented, in case it's not clear.

Unknown

richer is richer > problems of these game demruige wont able to fix it

everyone is force to pray to MMR god dont being found by 270 and 166 players