Weren't PVP progression rewards to change, w/o shield hop?

Unknown

Although I like shields having a cool down. . . .

They managed to implement it with a ton of problems.

One. CDs should be related to each shield and shorter than the max duration of that shield. e.g.. 2:30 for 3 hr, 7 for 8 hr etc

Two. Progression rewards most definitely are too high. It was damn near impossible for people to even reach the 1100 reward with a brand new, above average 3* which everyone wanted. If they want everyone shield hopping from day 1 and spending a ton of hp doing so, they should just say it. People will leave and all will be well in the universe.

Three. How about looking into other changes with shields. 12 Hour shield? Continuous shield that drains hp each hour? A free 'cash in your chips' shield that locks you until the end of the event?

Four. Limit total number of shields per event? Limit total hp spent per event? Make spenders blush showing how much they spent per event next to their score?

Although the sad excuse of doing this to not scare away the new players could possibly have the smallest sliver of truth, the reality is this totally destroys 2* transition teams hopes of doing well in an event other than rolling the dice and hope then end up in the bracket with 17 people at the end.

Another thing to consider is with the time slots already dividing the player base into chunks of 20% (roughly since some are bigger some smaller) the number of targets and therefore the number of players bouncing around to obtain higher scores is greatly reduced. End result. People feel like the game is only 20% of what it once was.

I recommend that 3 hour shields have CD reduced to about 2:30 and perhaps adding a few other changes suggested above.

Unknown

They have to obtain data first to determine where they new progressives should be. So every time you see someone spending massive amounts of HP between when the cool downs started and the progressives change, feel free to thank them for tiny kittying everyone else for the progressives being higher than the should be.

mohio

stephen43084 wrote:

They have to obtain data first to determine where they new progressives should be. So every time you see someone spending massive amounts of HP between when the cool downs started and the progressives change, feel free to thank them for tiny kittying everyone else for the progressives being higher than the should be.

I was wondering earlier this week if we would see some of the top alliances that typically have the highest scores and most coordination purposely dial back the coordinated shield hopping and score lower than they *could* simply to show D3 what the pvp landscape looks like without their normal high point targets to prop up everyone else's scores. Then they might see rather quickly how low scoring will be in this new system and more quickly lower the progression rewards. We'll see how it goes I guess.

FaustianDeal

stephen43084 wrote:

They have to obtain data first to determine where they new progressives should be. So every time you see someone spending massive amounts of HP between when the cool downs started and the progressives change, feel free to thank them for tiny kittying everyone else for the progressives being higher than the should be.

The Luke Cage event that ended yesterday might not be the best indicator of where to move the 1300 point prize. It would appear to me, guestimating based on casual analysis of the 20 teams I can see (1-10 and 45-54), that fewer than 50 people made 1300. The prize in that category wasn't as strong a motivator this event; the Hood event is maybe a better indicator for 1300 since it awards a Blue Goddess.

But the 1100 prize was a Red Luke Cage; which I am assuming more people were motivated to get. I'll wager that even being motivated to win that card still only saw < 1% of all players making 1100 (I'll bet closer to 0.5%).

Unknown

FaustianDeal wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

They have to obtain data first to determine where they new progressives should be. So every time you see someone spending massive amounts of HP between when the cool downs started and the progressives change, feel free to thank them for tiny kittying everyone else for the progressives being higher than the should be.

The Luke Cage event that ended yesterday might not be the best indicator of where to move the 1300 point prize. It would appear to me, guestimating based on casual analysis of the 20 teams I can see (1-10 and 45-54), that fewer than 50 people made 1300. The prize in that category wasn't as strong a motivator this event; the Hood event is maybe a better indicator for 1300 since it awards a Blue Goddess.

But the 1100 prize was a Red Luke Cage; which I am assuming more people were motivated to get. I'll wager that even being motivated to win that card still only saw < 1% of all players making 1100 (I'll bet closer to 0.5%).

Bet it's much less than 1% of all players. much much less

Quebbster

FaustianDeal wrote:

The Luke Cage event that ended yesterday might not be the best indicator of where to move the 1300 point prize. It would appear to me, guestimating based on casual analysis of the 20 teams I can see (1-10 and 45-54), that fewer than 50 people made 1300. The prize in that category wasn't as strong a motivator this event; the Hood event is maybe a better indicator for 1300 since it awards a Blue Goddess.

But the 1100 prize was a Red Luke Cage; which I am assuming more people were motivated to get. I'll wager that even being motivated to win that card still only saw < 1% of all players making 1100 (I'll bet closer to 0.5%).

The question is also what ratio they are going for. The changes to Sentry and now shield cooldown seems to indicate that it has been way too easy to get the top progression reward in the past. It should still be reachable for ordinary mortals if they put in a large effort though IMO.

simonsez

Quebbster wrote:

The question is also what ratio they are going for. The changes to Sentry and now shield cooldown seems to indicate that it has been way too easy to get the top progression reward in the past. It should still be reachable for ordinary mortals if they put in a large effort though IMO.

Personally, I'm not interested in having to sync up with half a dozen people to coordinate our hops. This game already feels too much like work as it is.

FaustianDeal

Quebbster wrote:

The question is also what ratio they are going for. The changes to Sentry and now shield cooldown seems to indicate that it has been way too easy to get the top progression reward in the past. It should still be reachable for ordinary mortals if they put in a large effort though IMO.

There is an interesting juxtaposition of arguments happening.
When the forum says PVE needs to have more reward tiers because people are getting the top reward halfway through and event and frequently finish with 2x - 5x the points required to get the top prize...
response: we want people to be be able to get all the rewards

are they now taking the opposite opinion when it comes to progression prizes in PVP? (Too many people hitting, must make harder?)

I *thought* they said their concern was that the top end scoring had gotten a little out of control? Well Luke Cage says they definitely obliterated the high end of the scoreboard...

If they are serious about saying they were fine with the old drop rates, and only want to put a lid on the runaway scoring, then Luke Cage suggests that they should swap 1100 <--> 800 and 1000 <--> 1300 prizes. That would have allowed the number of players hitting the 3* and 4* progression prizes to look more consistent with the award rates from events last season.

I saw *swap* instead of 'move down' because it would be nice to still have the prizes go all the way to 1300 even if the 4* card was already won.

(Again, scoring may be higher in the Hood event, since the 4* on top is a more attractive prize.)

The (frustrating) bummer is that they probably want to give us a few weeks to see if we can find a way to abuse the new system and run up the scores before they adjust the prize tiers.

Quebbster

FaustianDeal wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

The question is also what ratio they are going for. The changes to Sentry and now shield cooldown seems to indicate that it has been way too easy to get the top progression reward in the past. It should still be reachable for ordinary mortals if they put in a large effort though IMO.

There is an interesting juxtaposition of arguments happening.
When the forum says PVE needs to have more reward tiers because people are getting the top reward halfway through and event and frequently finish with 2x - 5x the points required to get the top prize...
response: we want people to be be able to get all the rewards

are they now taking the opposite opinion when it comes to progression prizes in PVP? (Too many people hitting, must make harder?)

I *thought* they said their concern was that the top end scoring had gotten a little out of control? Well Luke Cage says they definitely obliterated the high end of the scoreboard...

If they are serious about saying they were fine with the old drop rates, and only want to put a lid on the runaway scoring, then Luke Cage suggests that they should swap 1100 <--> 800 and 1000 <--> 1300 prizes. That would have allowed the number of players hitting the 3* and 4* progression prizes to look more consistent with the award rates from events last season.

I saw *swap* instead of 'move down' because it would be nice to still have the prizes go all the way to 1300 even if the 4* card was already won.

(Again, scoring may be higher in the Hood event, since the 4* on top is a more attractive prize.)

The (frustrating) bummer is that they probably want to give us a few weeks to see if we can find a way to abuse the new system and run up the scores before they adjust the prize tiers.

I don't think the extreme high scores are the problem. The problem is the trickledown effect - those absurd scores means that other players can find 40-50 point matches far too often, making the jump up to whatever point level you want trivial. It's easy to get to 1300 when you can earn 40 points per game, but if you are limited to 20 points per game because there just aren't any high value targets it takes a lot more dedication.

simonsez

Bumping this to ask, "****?" How much more data needs to be collected before conceding the obvious?

You guys remind me of the android saboteur in Alien...

Ripley: "Ash. Any suggestions from you or Mother [computer]?"
Ash: "No, we're still collating."
Ripley: [laughing in disbelief] "You're what? You're still collating? I find that hard to believe."

Unknown

Weren't 4*'s supposed to be really good? IW and IW2.0 (Elektra) aren't getting the same ring as 4or and Xforce.

My progression rewards were changed by the way. From spend 150-300 HP to hop for them, to save shield money and spend it on diapers.

Unknown

I wish I could find your brackets. I've been trying various time slices looking for "easy" ones since the shield change and in all but one tournament it's been >900 pts for top 10 and over 1100 for top 5, with 3 or 4 people over 1300.

Phaserhawk

I can guarentee we won't see any changes in the progression until the season is over, which is fair when you think about it, we ask that they don't make major changes during mid season to implement, and while it doesn't necessarily benefit us this time, the same logic should be applied to rewards, don't change things mid season.

Jim_MatriX_cz

I was thinking about the same after trying to play last two PVP's because of interesting characters available to win (as a veteran, last two seasons are "RETRO" seasons, quite boring and not motivating).
As I don't have currently favourite combo 4hor + XFW, I was not able to go above 800 pts. Event top players are just slightly above 1000 pts, and only because they are fighting for 1st place.
From 3rd down its below 1000 pts. Although I am happy that it seems more achievable to be in top10, the real situation is that its even more hard to get even top25.
In previous PVP I was literally shocked and irritated that my final position was top50. With constant playing for last 2 hours I ended 50th with 629 pts. I just wasnt able to be getting more points - I was loosing them quicker than gaining them.
I can not help myself, but this game is ruined.
PVE is boring since moment I know the prizes and seeing first node with extreme high levels of goons. Still thinks that best "PVE" is "gauntlet"

PVP is easy "match3" game till 500 pts. Then turns into extremely unfriendly and unplayable (and not fun). Rewards not interesting for veterans, unachiavable for most of us. And I WANT MORE ISO rewards. Not ridiculous "250" iso rewards...keep it for rookies! Even 1000 ISO is nothing. You need 172 000 ISO for maxing ***! When you need to level-up *** above 90level, 1000 iso is not even for one level-up.
I know we are getting some iso by step-by-step play with each won match, but if you realize that top50 prize is 1000 ISO, and per 1 month of your life, se you can get as tournament rewards 10'000 ISO per month, but Devs issue 2 characters per month (344'000 ISO), there is little imbalance...
By the way, during my game "career", I earned about 3'300'000 ISO and for maxing all my chars I would need 6'180'000 ISO...

I want TIERS with maximum amount of **/***/**** characters allowed. And each tier would have suitable rewards... So veterans won't intrude lower tier with 4hor+XFW, because they won't be allowed to use these characters and also prizes would't be motivating. */** tier would have mixed **/*** rewards, *** tier would have mix of ****/hp/iso rewards and **** tier can have huge amount of iso rewards - like 10'000 ISO, so they can level up anyone - why not? After long time they needed to spend in game? Why not reward veterans...? And why not to do new kind of rewards, i.e. free **/***/**** tokens to freely upgrade any ability? THAT would be motivation...not the cover I already sold 20x.

Sorry for little off topic, but I am playing this game more than 14 months and I am not happy about current situation...

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

I can guarentee we won't see any changes in the progression until the season is over, which is fair when you think about it, we ask that they don't make major changes during mid season to implement

a) They rarely time changes as per our suggestions
b) Changing the progression levels has absolutely nothing to do with season scores
c) How awesome would it be if someone in charge would actually let us know one way or the other?

Unknown

The should remove the 4* award from progressions and expand 4*s to top 5 instead of 1.

Still competition to get the top award without making sure you picked the correct slice or enough people are shield hopping. Just good old fashioned beating those in your bracket and getting rewarded for that.

simonsez

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Still competition to get the top award without making sure you picked the correct slice

If I'm going for top 5, the last thing I'm going to do is blindly pick a slice without first finding out where the 6k club is going to be.

Unknown

I used to think they'd change the progression rewards to match the difficulty but now I'm not so sure. I think what's happening is that players are proving they're willing to spend more HP for hitting progression rewards that often have no meaning so D3 might just look at it and say, 'well, why should we say no to more money?' The current PvP scores reminds me of OpPayHarder where you got a bunch of people who seem to be determined to prove to D3 that throwing more money to the system can defeat anything they can do to make things hard, and D3 is just saying, "Okay we lost keep sending the money".

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I can guarentee we won't see any changes in the progression until the season is over, which is fair when you think about it, we ask that they don't make major changes during mid season to implement

a) They rarely time changes as per our suggestions
b) Changing the progression levels has absolutely nothing to do with season scores
c) How awesome would it be if someone in charge would actually let us know one way or the other?

I agree with you on everything, but from a purely logical standpoint, we don't like when they make changes mid season, but we want them to make changes mid season for progression. There's 9 1/2 days left for season, and I don't see anything happening between now and then.

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

There's 9 1/2 days left for season, and I don't see anything happening between now and then.

To completely honest, I certainly don't either, and I was skeptical from day 1 that we'd ever see a meaningful change to the 1100/1300 awards.