*** Gorgon ***

24

Comments

  • Apparently this also shows that 3* can still be better than 4*
  • All the Strength in Numbers tiles from the Hand themselves count the caster as an ally, so I don't see why Gorgon's tile wouldn't. That said, that ability just sucks to have go off. No good way for it to end for you....
  • turul
    turul Posts: 1,622 Chairperson of the Boards
    Destroy them without matching
  • turul
    turul Posts: 1,622 Chairperson of the Boards
    at lvl 40:

    redtile.png 471 dmg / -3 enemy AP
    purpletile.png 4 turn CD / 3 turn stun
    blacktile.png 93 dmg / 43 atk (3 CD, 3 turn)
  • All the Strength in Numbers tiles from the Hand themselves count the caster as an ally, so I don't see why Gorgon's tile wouldn't. That said, that ability just sucks to have go off. No good way for it to end for you....

    Those ability says 'do X plus X for each non-downed ally'. For Unleash the Hand it just says 'do X damage per ally', but I checked the damage and it does count himself.

    Unleash the Hand is basically a Summon Demons even if you were able to match away all the tiles, and if not it's not going to hurt, a lot.
  • Yeah. ugh. I hate fighting Doom, too....
  • iamxzo
    iamxzo Posts: 65 Match Maker
    There is some gorgon in ep 16 fantastic four from 94', but definitely nothing to do with a hand.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,213 Chairperson of the Boards
    Honestly, even with Heroes, they could manage this type of Pre-release opponent.

    Villian featured PvE or even those odd scenarios where two factions of heroes are against one another (Civil War?) could be used as a place to test out new characters BEFORE they get into our hands. This could be used to look for a few exploits and ensure we don't see another half-baked characters ( icon_beast.png )

    Sure this won't find any exploits that require certain combinations of characters, but it could do a lot towards the balance of the game.

    That and I think this draws up even more anticipation for when the characters finally get released. I'm pretty excited to get my hands on Gorgan now.
  • Pwuz_ wrote:
    Honestly, even with Heroes, they could manage this type of Pre-release opponent.

    Villian featured PvE or even those odd scenarios where two factions of heroes are against one another (Civil War?) could be used as a place to test out new characters BEFORE they get into our hands. This could be used to look for a few exploits and ensure we don't see another half-baked characters ( icon_beast.png )

    Sure this won't find any exploits that require certain combinations of characters, but it could do a lot towards the balance of the game.

    That and I think this draws up even more anticipation for when the characters finally get released. I'm pretty excited to get my hands on Gorgan now.

    While I would like to agree with you, I don't think its possible for a couple of reasons:

    A) We have to BEG them for new content and we get so much recycled content. I doubt they'd be willing to 'feature' characters because they can't even be bothered to change anything besides essential character nodes.

    B) D3 likes to play this game where they don't reveal the stats for "bad characters" but are completely willing to reveal the stats for good characters(look at their hesitation to reveal Elektra's stats/abilities vs how quickly we found out Blade's, it's a pattern). I don't believe they'll reveal characters because there's a chance they'll have to reveal a 'bad' one. I could go into why revealing **** characters is really bad for business but I'm not going to.

    C) To your point of finding balance in the game, I don't think so. Although I think there's at least ONE person who's capable of balancing characters at D3(New Loki, New Sentry, Blade, Rocket and Groot, 4*Thor), when the characters aren't balanced, they are not balanced for a LONG time. The only result this'll bring is "okay they're bad/good so I won't/will try to get them" and they won't be changed for a LONG time.

    D) Gorgon is not gonna make it to 'playable' as is. He's WAYYY too strong. Although I'm pretty sure the community realized Cameo Devil Dino and playable Devil Dino would be different, I don't know if they'll be as accepting if this happens to every character.

    In summary: I don't think they'll do it because they just churn out characters regardless if they're balanced or not(Similar to League of Legends). This would only add work to their plate. I'd absolutely LIKE them to do it(Reveal characters abilities, stats, etc. prior to us getting them? Sounds like a nobrainer to me!), I don't think they will.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,213 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2014
    raisinbman wrote:
    D) Gorgon is not gonna make it to 'playable' as is. He's WAYYY too strong. Although I'm pretty sure the community realized Cameo Devil Dino and playable Devil Dino would be different, I don't know if they'll be as accepting if this happens to every character.

    I'm not sure that he really is THAT powerful. Yes, his moves do a fair amount of damage currently, but that is often the case with enemy characters in PvE. It's the power of the unobtainable 5/5/5 build that they give characters in this position. Depending on how those powers increase based on covers, he won't be outside the power of the average top 10 ranked 3* character. Taking these powers as a base for 5 covers:

    Debilitating Slash redtile.png 10 AP
    3 covers: Gorgon mercilessly slashes at his enemy's weak point, disabling them. Deal 1410 to the target and destroy 3Ap from a random color.
    4 covers: Gorgon mercilessly slashes at his enemy's weak point, disabling them. Deal 1935 to the target and destroy 4Ap from a random color.
    5 covers: Gorgon mercilessly slashes at his enemy's weak point, disabling them. Deal 2820 to the target and destroy 5Ap from a random color.


    Gorgon's Gaze purpletile.png 8AP
    3 covers: Gorgon lowers his glasses and turns his petrifying gace on his foes. Place a 5-turn Countdown tile that stuns the target for 4 turns.
    4 covers: Gorgon lowers his glasses and turns his petrifying gace on his foes. Place a 4-turn Countdown tile that stuns the target for 5 turns.
    5 covers: Gorgon lowers his glasses and turns his petrifying gace on his foes. Place a 3-turn Countdown tile that stuns the target for 6 turns.


    Awaken The Hand blacktile.png 10AP
    3 covers: Gorgon Laugh maniacally as the battlefield fill with Hand ninja. Create 3 3-turn Red Countdown tiles that deal 170 damage for each non-Downed ally. If matched creates a strength 82 attack tile.
    4 covers: Gorgon Laugh maniacally as the battlefield fill with Hand ninja. Create 3 3-turn Red Countdown tiles that deal 283 damage for each non-Downed ally. If matched creates a strength 136 attack tile.
    5 covers: Gorgon Laugh maniacally as the battlefield fill with Hand ninja. Create 3 3-turn Red Countdown tiles that deal 566 damage for each non-Downed ally. If matched creates a strength 273 attack tile.

    Now, I'm not saying that this is a perfect breakdown of those powers at lower levels for balance, but it certainly does take away a lot of his kick.
  • UNC_Samurai
    UNC_Samurai Posts: 401 Mover and Shaker
    After several rounds of grinding that blew up in my face because of the ability, allow me to say:

    A pox upon the nerf-herder who thought up Caltrops.

    It's not overpowering, per se, but it's way more annoying than anything else in this event, Gorgon's AP-stealing slash included. I feel like it punishes smart board play, because you have no idea when a match is going to cause damage to your entire party. Trying to avoid using a PC low on health so you can fire off their ability next turn? Nope, you're still hosed.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    He'll get released because they spent too much time making him. His Debalitiating Slash is within reason, look at X-Force's Surgical Stirke which costs 1 more but both are in 4 match territory. The other two abilties, Gorgon's Gaze and Awaken the Hand are all tied to CD tiles thus they can be extra powerful because you have time to blow them up. I think we are all a little skewed on this guy since all the Hand Goon's were feeding him AP thus he appeared much stronger than he really is. Unless Deablitating Slash gives you AP or GG and AtH have only 1 CD countdown I think he'll be a strong but fair character. And btw 5/3/5 would be my build.
  • rkd80
    rkd80 Posts: 376
    In my view, there is no way he is getting released with those skills. My main reasoning is the purple stun. This would be the first time such a potent stun is not on a blue (one exception is Ms Marvel's black stun). Pairing Gorgon with DD/Cap/Spidey/etc and you will have stun galore.

    Just my 2 cents of course.
  • I don't think he is overpowered (unless compared to Beast or Elektra), people are just seeing the "super low cost" of goon fed powers. Still his base stats for match and health are pretty nice, with three usable abilities. At one point he had Patch, LDaken and LCap all stunned at the same time, thanks to the purple feeding goons he was with, and the fact that the few purple tiles on the board were no where near each other.

    I would trade all five of my Elektra covers straight up for Gorgon covers, even though he is only a three star and I would have to see his hideous profile art. I am shocked at how horrible Elektra is at fighting the hand, as it was designed as her featured debut. The Hand completely annihilate her, by not creating strike tiles, and over writing red and black trap tiles all the time (if you bothered using her powers).
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    rkd80 wrote:
    In my view, there is no way he is getting released with those skills. My main reasoning is the purple stun. This would be the first time such a potent stun is not on a blue (one exception is Ms Marvel's black stun). Pairing Gorgon with DD/Cap/Spidey/etc and you will have stun galore.

    Just my 2 cents of course.

    so a 6 turn stun that relies on a maxed 5 covers to turn out a 3 CD tile is OP? I mean for 3 more AP Storm Classic can stun a target for 4 turns and AoE damage and before the tweak DD had a 5 turn stun for cheaper than that. No his red is strong and his black has no down side so might as well max it, so no, his purple is his worst skill and is not OP at all.
  • After several rounds of grinding that blew up in my face because of the ability, allow me to say:

    A pox upon the nerf-herder who thought up Caltrops.

    It's not overpowering, per se, but it's way more annoying than anything else in this event, Gorgon's AP-stealing slash included. I feel like it punishes smart board play, because you have no idea when a match is going to cause damage to your entire party. Trying to avoid using a PC low on health so you can fire off their ability next turn? Nope, you're still hosed.

    If you keep track of the board state you can usually have an idea of which tiles doesn't have a trap on. It'll also never be on a TU tile I think.

    I think Caltrops is great because it means you can't always hide character behind someone, though stepping on 4 of them in a match 4 sure is painful.
  • You can't compare his abilities against characters who are never meant to be viable in the end game due to a function of level. Juggernaut is one of the most overpowered character in the game if he can reach level 270, but since he cannot it's not a problem (except while fighting him) despite having two broken abilities.

    Debiliating Slash is effectively 5 AP versus a balanced team, and if you're only reliant on say 3 colors then it's basically 50% chance to totally screw up whatever your plan was. That doesn't put it on the broken range but it sure is at the upper end of the power curve. Gorgon's Gaze is on a color that's awfully difficult to defend against and stunning someone for 6 turns is a very long time. Awaken the Hand is pretty much at least as good as Summon Demons unless you've very specific moves to stop it and it can certainly do much better than a Summon Demons. By the way, stunning Gorgon doesn't stop Awaken the Hand from creating the attack tiles, so the only thing that can get rid of it is tile destruction abilities. And he still has Thor level HP and even a 4.5X crit modifier. He's not broken but pretty much everything he does is only a step below what can be considered broken, and he can do everything.
  • rkd80
    rkd80 Posts: 376
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    rkd80 wrote:
    In my view, there is no way he is getting released with those skills. My main reasoning is the purple stun. This would be the first time such a potent stun is not on a blue (one exception is Ms Marvel's black stun). Pairing Gorgon with DD/Cap/Spidey/etc and you will have stun galore.

    Just my 2 cents of course.

    so a 6 turn stun that relies on a maxed 5 covers to turn out a 3 CD tile is OP? I mean for 3 more AP Storm Classic can stun a target for 4 turns and AoE damage and before the tweak DD had a 5 turn stun for cheaper than that. No his red is strong and his black has no down side so might as well max it, so no, his purple is his worst skill and is not OP at all.

    I never said he was OP, I said that combining such a long stun on a non-blue AP can potentially lead to stun locking problems that D3 tried to avoid in the past. Do you think it is just a coincidence that every stun is on blue and every heal is on yellow? They are bucketing certain move types per color for a reason.
  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    rkd80 wrote:
    I never said he was OP, I said that combining such a long stun on a non-blue AP can potentially lead to stun locking problems that D3 tried to avoid in the past. Do you think it is just a coincidence that every stun is on blue and every heal is on yellow? They are bucketing certain move types per color for a reason.
    If the current characters are any indicator, they use color designations as guidelines at best. Every heal might be on yellow but the rest of yellow is a complete cluster that has flavors of every other color except maybe purple (the steal color) - strike tile generator (BP and Sentry), damage and tile generation (Thor), AOE and tile removal (4hor), TU generation (Storm). Yes, they wanted to have themes with colors but looking at only yellow, they stray from this design more often than not to fit a character or "balance" them based on who they might tank for if given particular colors. So you'll see a random stun on a non-blue as they create new characters.

    Regardless, I'd tip my hat to someone that could consistently get a stun-lock on a 3-turn CD and spidey. Ask Sentry how those 3-turn CDs have gone for him...effective but not nearly as reliable, which is what you need for a stun lock. So that's a lot of hood intimidation or CD juggling with 16+ purple AP to make it happen and you are likely doing it at the expense of really any good damage dealing. Spidey could do it on his own, which was the problem, since you could bring in 2 damage dealers. Otherwise, you're looking at 15 minute matches...
  • For me he felt pretty weak during the PvE event.
    Either he was present from the beginning (either in the first wave or in a non-survival node), then he didn't have enough AP to do anything scary; or he appeared late into the survival, when I was able to deal with the whole team "not passing priority" due to AP saved.
    His stun felt like a joke - it never resolved. Awaken was irritating but that's about it. Slash was a decent damage dealer, but again, nothing spectacular.

    Probably as a character on a dedicated team he would be more impressive, but for now I'm very sceptic.