Why I am an idiot and the real problem with PvE.

Unknown

To OP:

I've caught myself many times trying to schedule my life around this game and obsessing about it to the point where it has a negative impacts on my personal life (thankfully no car crashes-divorce-injury etc). Honestly, it's not worth it. Let me say this again: IT'S NOT WORTH IT!

Some time ago I would obsess about this game and try to finish at least top 20-50 in every PVE (whichever would get me at least 2 covers + the alliance reward). I realize I'm lightweight compared to other players but still, I spent way to much time on the game and it caused me to become irritable and abrupt and I would end up hating myself. Then, I tried to take it a bit easier and aim for only 1 cover of each new character released in PVE and I moved to a less competitive alliance. It was better. I enjoyed the game more and it felt less like work, like something I just HAD to do for some nebulous reason.

For this event I ended up in what looks like a competitive bracket where taking top 50 for Elektra would require a lot of grinding. And with her being 4 it means that she will be much more difficult to acquire, not to mention she will be essential in her upcoming PVE. And you know what? I don't care! Currently I'm hovering at the 150-200 position and I'm perfectly fine with it. Sure, I could use the reward to respec him but if I don't get it then oh well, so be it. I will do 3-4 clears of the nodes during the course each sub event, gather some ISO, tokens and progression rewards and that's it.

MPQ is a game, it's purpose is to entertain us during our free time, not to dominate our lives. If you want to keep being competitive then aim for getting one of every new cover but not necessarily for top 1-5. It is much healthier and more enjoyable that way.

Unknown

People should really forget their damn phones while driving, and that includes speaking with someone on the speaker. I believe there was a Mythbuster episode that proved that using a phone while driving in ANY manner gives you worse reaction time than drunk driving.

The problem is not entirely MPQ related, it is trend related.

Not to mention the fact that if people would stop sitting in their cars alone (because it is more convenient), and take the public transport, then they would save time, money, lessen the economic impact and would be able to play MPQ without any issue. (Disclaimer: this last comment is for those living in bigger cities where traffic jams and public transport is available)

Unknown

Respect for owning up about it and posting on here.

The pve model is flawed, for some of us. However the sheer volume of play that went on for the Thor cover would suggest that a larger proportion of people moaning about the pve structure, play the pve structure.

I have absolutely no figures whatsoever, but am pretty sure that if all the people not liking the structure stopped playing, even for a week, the developers would then do something.

Me? I'm off back to grind away.

Unknown

vetheran wrote:

People should really forget their damn phones while driving, and that includes speaking with someone on the speaker. I believe there was a Mythbuster episode that proved that using a phone while driving in ANY manner gives you worse reaction time than drunk driving.

The problem is not entirely MPQ related, it is trend related.

Not to mention the fact that if people would stop sitting in their cars alone (because it is more convenient), and take the public transport, then they would save time, money, lessen the economic impact and would be able to play MPQ without any issue. (Disclaimer: this last comment is for those living in bigger cities where traffic jams and public transport is available)

well the good news is apparently there is a device that can be installed into any automobile which literally shuts off your mobile completely whilst the car engine is running. I'm not sure if it is oout of testing but the device does exist, and I'm fairly certain within a few years the device will be a compulsary part of any new vehicle... Yes unfortunately it shuts off sat navigation on your phone too!

Unknown

Paintsville wrote:

The game is not encouraging you to do anything. Not anymore that a casino is encouraging a poor man to put his last chip on the blackjack table. Or a porn site is forcing a man to spend his families grocery money on a subscription. Or forcing a kid to take money from his grandma's purse so he can buy a bag of weed. These are all choices that are made.

You seem to have a quite naive view of what free will is, or to be more precise its limitations.
Humans are biologically wired in a certain way, and whole industries (most notably the video game one) are based on exploiting this fact.

When you're saying a game is not encouraging anyone to do anything you are flat out wrong. Some -if not most- game designers are actively trying to put the player in a position where he's little more than a guinea pig in a skinner box. It's called behavioral game design and it's very very effective. It doesn't mean videogames flat out give you an addiction per se (and hence the comparison with drugs or other addictions is seriously flawed), but they can certainly give you addictive behaviors. And don't you think a free-to-play game business model might especially benefit from addictive behaviors among its players ?
Of course everyone is different and we are more or less able to succumb to addictive behaviors, and yes what the OP did is a conscious choice and entirely on him, no discussion here. But it's more than likely that MPQ has been designed with the very purpose of keeping the player addicted to the game, and the refresh time in this prospect are downright nefarious. I did the whole junkie trip once only (to get Deadpool) and it sure as hell wasn't pleasant in the end. But I had to if I wanted my carrot in the end.

So saying it's entirely on the player is not fair at all. In an ideal world where our conscious mind would be able to easily trump our unconscious and our biology, sure. But we're not living in such a world.

ProfessorGumby wrote:

So my off-topic, yet burning, question is...

... if you're a game designer, why aren't you passionate/addicted/compelled to play your own game(s)?

Most of us who do "market research" of other products in our industry truly do so in order to further our own RL careers. Wonder how your employer would feel if you missed a few days of work due to a car accident (or a few months due to jail time), because you were playing a competitor's game while driving?

I really hope I never purchase any of your products.

And I would hire him in heartbeat.
For starters, where the hell did you get the notion that video game designers actively play their own games ?
Not withstanding they see the game from an entirely different point of view from players, the bottom line is that it's work -maybe pleasant work- but it's still work. So no, game designers are definitely not passionately playing their own game that they know inside out.
What they should do on the other hand is passionately play games from other people to keep gathering ideas in the ever changing world of videogames. If you only create and play you own games only, you're bound to go round in circles.
So he's a video game designer playing other people's game ? Good for him, he's doing his homework.

Unknown

While it doesn't affect the overall mechanic, I do think the dev's need to look at refresh times again. 3 hours is bad for most people.

How long is most peoples work day? 8-9 hours, bisected by a lunch break

How long do people sleep? 7-8 hours

How long is the refresh cycle? Now increased to 3 hours... Surely it's just common sense that 4 hour cycles would suit peoples lives sooo much better?

I'd also add that I've been guilty of trying to cram in an MPQ match or two while in the car (stuck in traffic, not going at any real speed) which also makes me stupid - but I suspect I'm not the only one. Fair play to the OP for admitting it.

Unknown

Anyone who may have fallen into the same mindset as the OP, I'd recommend reading this article:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5- ... icted.html

D3 is literally training you to be addicted to their game.

It's a very common practice in gaming nowadays, unfortunately.

For this very reason, I compete only casually in PVE.

PVP takes 3 or 4 hours of play time, at most.

PVE takes at least 10x that, depending on how long the PVE event is.

These 7 day events are torture. And so many people are playing right into D3's hands.

Not to say D3 is a bad guy. They're just doing what every mobile gaming company is doing nowadays. It's just the culture of freemium gaming.

Unknown

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I'm glad it appears I'm not the only one who sees an issue with the basic pve design. And just to make a slight clarification for anyone who thinks I was flying down the freeway playing MPQ - this was stop-and-go, bumper-to-bumper traffic jam traffic. If you've never checked a text message or an email when stuck not moving, you're a better person than I am. But I was still wrong, and extremely fortunate that I have an opportunity to correct my behavior going forward.

I feel that the alcohol/drugs/gambling addiction argument in regards to personal responsibility is a bit of a straw man here. The current design of competitive pve requires players to hit nodes every 3 hours, on the dot, for maximum score. And Elektra requires a near maximum score. There is no deviation from that basic setup: If you want to be competitive, you have to subscribe to that timed gameplay model, or your rank will suffer.

The great thing about PvP is that you have control over when you play. There is a broad period of time during which you can raise your score, and since you can select from multiple time brackets, you can designate a period when you'll likely be available to push for your final score. Some days, I do my entire pvp score in one sitting. Other times, I spread it out over two days and play when I'm available. That's simply not possible with pve.

The real question is how to address this issue. With the current score design of PvE, more time variance during which players can hit their nodes would seemingly mean we'll see more players tied right at the maximum score. That can't be what D3 wants, and it's not good for ranked, competitive gameplay.

I'm going to throw out a few ideas that might prompt discussion, though...

- Setting PvE into lightning-round-style periods. Basically, when nodes refresh, players have a set period (perhaps 4-6 hours) in which to hit those nodes for maximum score. The nodes can then be hit a second time, and maybe even a third time for lesser score. At the end of the time period, nodes refresh for everyone. This presents a possible issue with a lot of people being tied for the maximum score, but at least it allows some wiggle room on when players have to play.

- Moving covers away from a "ranking" in PvE and toward difficult progression awards. Currently, it is not difficult for a dedicated player to obtain a max progression reward. But, what if the highest cover were extremely difficult to reach, so that Elektra might only be available with an overall score of about 150,000. Reduce the importance of individual ranking rewards down to iso, hp and packs. This would give players a little bit of breathing room on score, rather than allowing our competitive nature to drive the competition to insane levels. I know the idea of more guaranteed covers might scare D3 a bit, but I have to believe there is a sweet spot where this approach would work out. We've seen a version of this approach work a bit with the Gauntlet events, which seem to have been generally well-received. The only downside here is that D3 makes money in the current model, when we feel we *HAVE* to spend to clear our nodes (if you've ever bought health packs or hp boosts to finish a PvE clear, you know what I mean).

- Creating some sort of "season-based" ranking or score for PvE. Rather than running these crazy 4-star PvEs, what if Elektra was only awarded at the end of the season. This could be set as a progression reward or as a top rank. With the competition spread out over several events, it might give the player base a bit of leeway on when they play PvE, and not feeling as if a single missed clear costs them an opportunity at a cover. It also might help limit the rate at which these top covers are obtained by players.

It's a challenging problem, for sure, but if anyone else has ideas or thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

GrumpySmurf1002

Man, this is just....there's nothing about the PvE format that says: Become a 2-ton murder weapon so you don't fall behind the college kid(s) who have nothing better to do for a week than grind nodes.

I would've thought that was an obvious concept yesterday. Shows what I know about the real world.

Hulk11

These forums wow...

First off, this guy did exactly what he was supposed to do to be a top level performer in this game. Can anyone blasting him, say they are number one in this event? If so you can offer suggestions on how you're keeping the best overall score and not getting hurt, that is far more helpful to this person, not blaming him for doing the best he can to win.

Unknown

It's time to walk away and reevaluate life OP.

kalex716

You are the only one to blame for this, not the game.

You are an idiot. Why do you, or anyone in your alliance need 4 star Electra that bad?

She isn't even any good. Pull yourself together man.

Quebbster

Hulk11 wrote:

These forums wow...

First off, this guy did exactly what he was supposed to do to be a top level performer in this game. Can anyone blasting him, say they are number one in this event? If so you can offer suggestions on how you're keeping the best overall score and not getting hurt, that is far more helpful to this person, not blaming him for doing the best he can to win.

What people are saying is that "not getting hurt" (and above all "not hurting others") is far more important than "keeping the best overall score".
(But I'm not #1 in my bracket, so feel free to ignore me. I should be able to get top 50 though, and that is good enough for me).

Unknown

Sheesh, I read this and see about 50% of you are addicts to this game (a lot or a little).

basically if you let something, anything affect your day to day decisions to do it over something else, and it always comes out on top then you have a problem.

This is a game, it will not feed or cloth you, it will not do your dishes, or drive you home from work, it will not do your work, it will not have sex for you or sleep for you. You do not need the covers, Competition is an illusion.

I am sure I will get down voted for this, but sometimes a wake up call is more important then reputation.

Basically play the game on your terms not what you think will net you the latest and greatest. But over all play safe and play sane.

Death by sleep dep. is a real thing, think about that.

GrumpySmurf1002

Hulk11 wrote:

These forums wow...

First off, this guy did exactly what he was supposed to do to be a top level performer in this game. Can anyone blasting him, say they are number one in this event? If so you can offer suggestions on how you're keeping the best overall score and not getting hurt, that is far more helpful to this person, not blaming him for doing the best he can to win.

Here's a tip.

If what you're 'supposed to do' to win is put people's lives at risk, then maybe you just bleepin' lose and not worry about the damn videogame. It's called personal responsibility.

I feel pretty comfortable saying the people that are #1 in this event and others before it had a 100% track record of "don't drive your car into things while playing" prior. I'm not sure this requires any advanced playing algorithm to figure out.

Hulk11

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Hulk11 wrote:

These forums wow...

First off, this guy did exactly what he was supposed to do to be a top level performer in this game. Can anyone blasting him, say they are number one in this event? If so you can offer suggestions on how you're keeping the best overall score and not getting hurt, that is far more helpful to this person, not blaming him for doing the best he can to win.

Here's a tip.

If what you're 'supposed to do' to win is put people's lives at risk, then maybe you just bleepin' lose and not worry about the damn videogame. It's called personal responsibility.

I feel pretty comfortable saying the people that are #1 in this event and others before it had a 100% track record of "don't drive your car into things while playing" prior. I'm not sure this requires any advanced playing algorithm to figure out.

If you were in first place for this event and put in the spot where this guy was, I think you could have more understanding and not just say, "well it's a given that we all know not to play games and drive". Or at least that's what the other players have gone on record saying.

Unknown

News flash. You don't have to win every cover the first time they are offered.

Secondly, if you rotating your entire life around mpq for a week you got bigger problems and that should be blamed on a game.

Lastly, I've been saying for several seasons the refresh time needs to be enough to have a life. Dinner and movie takes about 6 if done right. 8 would be nice if you want to work or sleep to live a decent life.

Hulk11

stephen43084 wrote:

News flash. You don't have to win every cover the first time they are offered.

Secondly, if you rotating your entire life around mpq for a week you got bigger problems and that should be blamed on a game.

Lastly, I've been saying for several seasons the refresh time needs to be enough to have a life. Dinner and movie takes about 6 if done right. 8 would be nice if you want to work or sleep to live a decent life.

Great point. Personally I don't live by the 3 hours.

Going back to the first point, a lot of players see the Elektra cover as "essential" to play the game because of future events. While you don't have to win it, it's still called essential by many.

GrumpySmurf1002

Hulk11 wrote:

[
If you were in first place for this event and put in the spot where this guy was, I think you could have more understanding and not just say, "well it's a given that we all know not to play games and drive". Or at least that's what the other players have gone on record saying.

I can tell you with 2039581239078123904684690% accuracy that if I were in first in this event, there would be zero thought of the game while I was driving. I've won PvEs. I understand the time and effort involved. I understand the rewarding feeling that comes when pulling it off. I have also sacrificed position in a PvE on more than one occasion because there are things more important than maintaining placement in a video game, and they were all for way more trivial things than driving a car.

Just re-read this:

I stayed a little bit late at work this evening so that I could hit my nodes before driving home. However, MPQ was unfortunately hit with a temporary bug that made all PvE and PvP events unable to play. So, I was losing time and falling behind my competitors because I couldn't log in. Not good.

The nodes came up about 20 minutes later, while I was in bumper-to-bumper traffic. **** - a slight hiccup in my perfect plan for PvE domination. Of course, I couldn't afford to wait another half hour to log in and thus lose time against my competition.

This isn't "oh, look at the time, time to play MPQ." The only way to know the nodes came back up while in the car is to be actively monitoring the game. While driving. In bumper to bumper. This is a conscious decision to put others at risk. There is zero understanding required.

If it's really that important, stay at work until the nodes come back. This isn't difficult.

Here's let's revise the story to another potential result from using your phone while driving:

the accident was major and 4 people were hospitalized

That's ok, he did what he had to do for an Elektra cover. I hope you have some understanding of how insane that would sound.

Everyone involved is fortunate that the results this time were non-serious. That's luck, not justification.

Bowgentle

Hulk11 wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

News flash. You don't have to win every cover the first time they are offered.

Secondly, if you rotating your entire life around mpq for a week you got bigger problems and that should be blamed on a game.

Lastly, I've been saying for several seasons the refresh time needs to be enough to have a life. Dinner and movie takes about 6 if done right. 8 would be nice if you want to work or sleep to live a decent life.

Great point. Personally I don't live by the 3 hours.

Going back to the first point, a lot of players see the Elektra cover as "essential" to play the game because of future events. While you don't have to win it, it's still called essential by many.

If the devs are true to their word, and they better be, the PVE after Elektra will be for an old char.
So while Elektra will be an essential for the next PVE, you can safely sit this one out without harming your progress - unless losing out on, say, Iron Man covers harms your progress.

The next PVE for a new char will have someone else for the essential nodes.

If the PVE after Elektra IS for a new char, then I'm done with this game.