Why I am an idiot and the real problem with PvE.

Unknown

Hi everyone. I'm Patrick, and I enjoy playing MPQ. This evening, I did something very stupid, very selfish and very dangerous. Let me explain:


PvE is my favorite part of Marvel Puzzle Quest. I feel as though even if I don't have a roster to compete at the highest levels of PvP, I can make up for it with a strong PvE score to help my alliance. After all, 90% of PvE success stems from patience, dedication and free time.

So, we are currently in the process of trying to obtain the new Elektra covers. Similar to the Thor event, the competition is *INSANE.* On top of the increased level of competition, the number of covered rewards is significantly cut, as well. The end result is that, to obtain an Elektra cover, you pretty much need to have your life revolve around MPQ for more than a week.

I can do this. I obtained a top 5 ranking on the 4Thor event by sleeping in 3 hour cycles. Yes, that's a bit overboard, but that's pretty much what you have to do to succeed. And it's important to succeed, because you can guarantee that Elektra will be a pve essential in the near future. If you don't get her from this event, you'll be at a huge disadvantage in an upcoming pve.

Anyway, I decided that I would make a huge push at Elektra. I've been timing my sleep cycles, lunch breaks and time off around being able to play the game every 3 hours. And it's worked well so far - as of this evening, I was in first place in my bracket, woohoo, yay, awesome, great!

I stayed a little bit late at work this evening so that I could hit my nodes before driving home. However, MPQ was unfortunately hit with a temporary bug that made all PvE and PvP events unable to play. So, I was losing time and falling behind my competitors because I couldn't log in. Not good.

The nodes came up about 20 minutes later, while I was in bumper-to-bumper traffic. **** - a slight hiccup in my perfect plan for PvE domination. Of course, I couldn't afford to wait another half hour to log in and thus lose time against my competition.

So, I did that stupid, selfish, idiotic thing I shouldn't have done. I started playing MPQ while trying to drive a car. The only bit of good news is that the accident was only a minor fender bender and no one was injured.

I can't justify my actions, but what I can do is speak out against this PvE model. A model that punishes players that miss cycles and strongly encourages us to play THE MOMENT NODES REFRESH, even when we shouldn't.

Now, I understand the difficulty and complexity that comes with designing and operating a game like this. I myself am a game designer, and I know that there isn't an easy solution for how to fix PvE while balancing out the rate at which covers (and especially rare covers) are awarded. There are surely a lot of factors to take into account. But D3, I encourage you to take a strong look at this issue and see if you can find a way to improve the situation. Because while I recognize my mistake and will learn from it, I surely can't be the only one who has acted foolishly to try and maintain a silly PvE ranking. And if someone were to get hurt over something as silly as a mobile puzzle game, that would be a real tragedy.

I've heard a few rumors that D3 is working on a new game mode or PvE model. If that's the case, great. Hopefully you guys can find a way to move on to a more balanced approach that we all can enjoy.

Thanks for listening, guys. I'm honestly embarrassed and ashamed to be writing this, but I felt it was something that needed to be said.

Unknown

Great post. We've all been there. At least you weren't doing it with passengers. This game model needs adjusted.

ClydeFrog76

That is one of the most depressing things I've ever read on here.

Stop playing, dude. Just stop playing.

Unknown

My obvious reply is.....Seriously?

The game means so much to you that you would risk your life or the life of others? This post speaks more to your issues than the issues of PvE.

I mean, if it meant that much to you, at least take the next exit and hang out at a McDonalds or something. You were already planning on getting home late anyway.

Sorry if this offends you, or anyone for that matter. Just felt it needed to be said.

Lystrata

ClydeFrog76 wrote:

That is one of the most depressing things I've ever read on here.

Stop playing, dude. Just stop playing.

This. I have always maintained that the moment this game affected the decisions I make irl (such as whether or not to go out, whether to leave a friend's place in order to grind, what time to see a movie with friends, etc - not whether I wait another 5 minutes at home to have a shower, or whatever) then that's the time I quit.

I'd say... playing in traffic at all, let alone to the extent that you cause an accident (and put other people's lives at risk) is a wake-up call to take a step back.

Don't get me wrong, I fully admire the fact you could post this on here, and see your reasoning, but... at the same time, it's just a phone game. The PvE model isn't perfect, but when it has this level of impact on your real life, that's on you... not the game. And I hope you can recognise that.

Unknown

Paintsville wrote:

My obvious reply is.....Seriously?

The game means so much to you that you would risk your life or the life of others? This post speaks more to your issues than the issues of PvE.

I mean, if it meant that much to you, at least take the next exit and hang out at a McDonalds or something. You were already planning on getting home late anyway.

Sorry if this offends you, or anyone for that matter. Just felt it needed to be said.

Everyone posting admonitions on here needs to step back. The guy already admitted the mistake and did so, at great personal embarrassment, in an attempt to point out the serious ramifications of this particular model.

If you, any of you, have a decent roster and claim you've never played this game when you probably should have been doing something else, I say you're a liar.

Unknown

Have I played this game when I should have been doing something else?

Yes.

Have I played this game when I was doing something dangerous to myself or others?

No.

Choices. The OP made a bad choice. I respect his bravery for telling us about it, but it doesn't change the fact that is was a bad choice. Blaming it on the game is the same as blaming your problems on alcohol, drugs, gambling, or any other addiction.

When it comes to someone making dangerous choices due to alcohol or drugs, I say get help.

When it comes to someone making dangerous choices due to MPQ, I say get help.

ClydeFrog76

"&#91 wrote: »

"]If you, any of you, have a decent roster and claim you've never played this game when you probably should have been doing something else, I say you're a liar.

You're missing the point.

Unknown

The degree to which I am an idiot or need to get help is debatable, but it's a bit beside the point I was hoping to make.

What concerns me, and what I'd like to focus on, is that there is a game mode that encourages foolish people to commit foolish behavior. Because while I might be a fool, I am far from the only fool out there.

Unknown

I understand what you are trying to say, and I am not deliberately trying to insult you. I just disagree.

The game is not encouraging you to do anything. Not anymore that a casino is encouraging a poor man to put his last chip on the blackjack table. Or a porn site is forcing a man to spend his families grocery money on a subscription. Or forcing a kid to take money from his grandma's purse so he can buy a bag of weed. These are all choices that are made.

I will go one step further. While in my examples, The Casino, Porn Site, and Drug Dealer might revel in the misery of the people in their grasp, but I firmly believe that anyone associated with MPQ would say "Dude, not while you are driving."

And remember this is coming from someone known to rip the devs a new one if I feel they deserve it.

The game is an inanimate thing created by a company. It forces nothing upon you, unless you let it.

ClydeFrog76

Yeah, sorry mate. This is all on you.

You put your life and the lives of others at risk for a new character in a comic-related match-3 iPhone game.

Keep reading that sentence until it sinks in.

Unknown

pf-gdev wrote:

What concerns me, and what I'd like to focus on, is that there is a game mode that encourages foolish people to commit foolish behavior. Because while I might be a fool, I am far from the only fool out there.

no, it doesn't. your own foolish thinking encouraged your own foolish behavior.

i'm glad you, or anybody else wasn't hurt.

Unknown

Paintsville wrote:

I understand what you are trying to say, and I am not deliberately trying to insult you. I just disagree.

The game is not encouraging you to do anything. Not anymore that a casino is encouraging a poor man to put his last chip on the blackjack table. Or a porn site is forcing a man to spend his families grocery money on a subscription. Or forcing a kid to take money from his grandma's purse so he can buy a bag of weed. These are all choices that are made.

I will go one step further. While in my examples, The Casino, Porn Site, and Drug Dealer might revel in the misery of the people in their grasp, but I firmly believe that anyone associated with MPQ would say "Dude, not while you are driving."

And remember this is coming from someone known to rip the devs a new one if I feel they deserve it.

The game is an inanimate thing created by a company. It forces nothing upon you, unless you let it.

Your reasoning is flawed. If this game were as simple as each individual match, then you would be correct. However, it's much more than that. People have time and, in most cases, money invested. Furthermore, there is the pressure to do well to help your alliance.

Comparing mpq in such a simplistic way to addictions such as gambling, porn, and drugs is vulgar and, whether implied or not, an insult to the OP.

Lystrata

pf-gdev wrote:

What concerns me, and what I'd like to focus on, is that there is a game mode that encourages foolish people to commit foolish behavior.

Sorry, but isn't that where common sense and self-control come in?

You clearly know that being distracted when driving is irresponsible and dangerous - as proven. You could have pulled over. But you didn't. Common sense and self-control didn't have priority. And if a match-3 game pushes common sense aside to that degree... I really don't believe that's on the game.

At the end of the day, you choose your actions. Having witnessed a family member go through nearly a year of agony following a car accident earlier this year, all I can say is I'm glad no one got hurt and for the love of hell don't let a match-3 game push you to this limit again.

Unknown

"&#91 wrote: »

"]

Comparing mpq in such a simplistic way to addictions such as gambling, porn, and drugs is vulgar and, whether implied or not, an insult to the OP.

lolwut?

OP is an addict. Go back and read that first post again- they have repeatedly changed their life to play a video game, and then made the CONSCIOUS DECISION to put others' lives in risk simply so they could play a video game. If they are insulted by being compared to other addicts; too bad.

I bet the person they hit is insulted that their life and well-being is worth less than a F2P game.

wirius

I agree that the game devs should rethink their pve design. I also think that if you're sleeping in 3 hour cycles for a week, and playing MPQ in traffic, you have a greater problem than the designers. Don't be the fool who revolves their life around a game. Be the person who forces the devs to revolve the game around people's lives.

ProfessorGumby

pf-gdev wrote:

Now, I understand the difficulty and complexity that comes with designing and operating a game like this. I myself am a game designer,

So my off-topic, yet burning, question is...

... if you're a game designer, why aren't you passionate/addicted/compelled to play your own game(s)?

Most of us who do "market research" of other products in our industry truly do so in order to further our own RL careers. Wonder how your employer would feel if you missed a few days of work due to a car accident (or a few months due to jail time), because you were playing a competitor's game while driving?

I really hope I never purchase any of your products.

Unknown

feel sorry about that. You should leave the game. For the 4* thor i give up as i m too business in that time and get not even a captain marvel cover

fight4thedream

Fortunately no one was hurt and it seems that the OP has realized his great folly.

However, i hope that the point of his post will not be lost: there is a problem with the current pVe model and the current status of the game.

Sure we can chide him for his obvious addiction to the game and for his poor decision making. He has a lot of serious reflecting to do. But don't we all?

i've never played a game that was so oriented around real world time. You will occasionally hear from posters on here about frustrated wives/significant others, cutting down on family time, reducing one's sleep time and other things people do to accommodate the time schedule of this game. i fall into the category of those that have been adjusting their sleep time to do well in this game.

The reason i do this is because it works.

i have two other friends that play this game and in terms of roster strength, i'm light years ahead of them. But my so-called "achievement" has less to do with skill and more to do with understanding the meta-game and the willingness to sacrifice time. My one friend even laughed at me (in the way you laugh at a child for being silly) when she found out how much i plan my daily life around this game.(she is a daily casual player who plays mostly on train rides going back and forth from work and a little bit before she goes to bed. She currently has 22 health packs because she never uses them.)

but i like this game. it's fun most of the times. and i've come to realize that i am the kind of person that likes to be "the best there is" lol

However, with that being said, i understand why people get burnt out playing this game. In order to excel, it asks a lot (or some might say too much) in terms of time commitment. i don't know much about mobile gaming, but with more traditional console games you simply play whenever you like. Of course, you can do that with this game but unless you are very lucky with timing of events being convenient for your lifestyle (e.g. a high school student living on the West Coast of the US lol), you won't see a lot of progress. For some players, that's cool.

But for those that want to be "the best there is", playing casually is not really an option, at least not as the game currently exists. it's either go hard or go find another game that rewards your desire. Casual play leads to really, really slow progress. i know because i have a bunch of casual players in my alliance and occasionally you will read about a poster who has been playing this game for a year and only recently maxed their first 3*.

Now when you have a bunch of people trying to be "the best there is" at a game that requires only a minimal amount of skill and strategy (at least when it comes to pVe, pVp is a different kind of beast) it basically boils down to two major factors:

1. RL circumstances (job, personal commitments, etc.)
2. How much time you are willing to commit to achieve a decent rank

A player has very little control over the first factor (save for those bathroom breaks); it's the second factor where the player makes the choice: is the prize worth my time? And if so, how much time? (You will often see Ben Grimm make these kinds of choices on this forum)

As with many players that come to the forum, i try to find ways to maximize my ability to attain rewards while doing the least amount of work. However, as more players develop their rosters and catch on to the mechanics behind the meta-game, the more effort will be required to maintain a top position. That is why it's becoming more and more the norm to see people shielding from ranks 1-25 when a new, worthwhile character is being released where when I first started only a handful of people would ever shield.

In regards to pVe, there are have been various ways to try and confront the issue of the Grind, perhaps most prominently rubberbanding. For those that don't know, rubberbanding was a method in which a player could theoretically sit out of an entire event while others grinded away and with proper timing (usually around the 12 hour mark if i remember correctly) "rubberband" to the top of the rankings and place higher playing significantly less time than others who had grinded away most of the event. Of course it is an unfair mechanism and could only be fully utilized by people who could grind the last few hours of the event. Recently, it seems that rubberbanding has been toned down enough that such tactics are no longer viable for top rankings. Why did they implement rubberbanding in the first place? Theoretically in order to keep casual players interested in the event. If you join a pVe event where the player in 1st has 60,000 points and you only are able to get 5,000 points on your first round with a rank around 600 it doesn't give you much incentive to continue playing the event, does it? However, say with the rubber band you were able to gain 20,000 pts and place somewhere around top 100. Two or three more goes at it and you break Top 10! But when more savvy players caught on to this, it lead to heavy exploitation. Now for us more savvy (*lazy*) players, we rely on bracket reporting in the hopes of skipping the long grind that comes with pVe. [and that method has turned into a new fiasco with the time slices lol]

Obviously for a casual non-competitive player, pVe is not so much of a hassle. But for those are trying to be "the best there is" pVe symbolizes one thing and one thing only: the Grind. In my mind, the Grind is a Mexican Bandito called El Senor Grind and he makes us do the Mexican hat dance over and over again, shooting at our feet and telling his companion Senorita Scaleita throw more hats in and make the music go faster.

*que imaginary sequence*

El Senor: "Dance for me! Dance for me! F4D!!
F4d: "I've already done this dance 6 times already!"
El Senor: "Oh! Did you hear that Senorita Scaleita?! Senor f4d said he wants more hats and wants faster music!! Well, let him have it!"
f4d: "I..
*bang bang*
El Senor: "Dance f4d! Dance for me! La cucaracha, la cucaracha, ya no puede caminar♪"
*bang bang*
Senorita Scaleita: "Oh wow! He finished in 27 minutes and 36 seconds this time!"
El Senor: "Aye dios mio! Was it too easy for you, f4d? We will just have to add more hats and make the song faster for you! See you in 3 hours muchacho!"
F4d: *out of breath* no....more....hats....

*end imaginary sequence*

In all seriousness though, it's no wonder people burn out. the way i manage to deal with the monotony of doing the same nodes over and over again is by imagining i'm racing other forum members (sometimes with funny results). it's gotten to the point that i don't even bother reading the dialogues to events anymore [save the occasional Deadpool zingers.] it always brings a smile to my face when i see a name i am familiar with in pVe.

Getting back to the point though, in an ideal situation where everyone has all the free time they like, pVe simply becomes a test of timing and wills. Theoretically in such a situation the scaling should rise so those that have the strongest roster, best strategic planning and/or greatest HP resources will be end up winning the day. But more realistically speaking, since very few of us are trying to hit every refresh every 2.5 or 3 hours, more often than not it comes down to who is willing to do the most refreshes.

Confession: Sometimes i play this game more than i would like to.

i imagine that goes the same for anyone who wants to be "good" or "the best".that's why we have words like "practice" and "training" lol. Anywhoo, ideally, i would like a variety of game modes some competitive, some non-competitive that all offered good prizes. The game is fun, the new characters are cool but the current game modes are no longer novel. As previously mentioned, now i get my jollies from battling it out with forumites and other in-game rivals so i imagine i am heading into the final phase of pleasure that can be derived from this game in its current form.

To echo the sentiments of past vets before me and those still sticking with it, i really hope the devs provide more non-competitive, less time restrictive game modes. They can keep the current pVe format (maybe continue tweaking the refresh times a bit?) since i know there are those that like it but offer something else too.

As for the OP, let us just be thankful that all it took was minor fender bender for him to wake up from the game's enchantment and let it be a warning to us all not to get so deep into the game that we put ourselves or others at danger. And i mean that to include our relationships with our loved ones and our other interests in life, not simply life/death situations.

Wishing everyone a safe, happy gaming experience!

fight4thedream

P.S.- Since i don't want to look like i'm just pointing out the problem without offering any constructive suggestions, here a some past posts of mine regarding this matter:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15997
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16429
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19896

Unknown

I'm sympathetic to actual point being made by the OP. By consequence of the PVE design format, for a competitive player that is determined to win (something the developers would want players to aspire to), the player needs to sleep in 3 hour cycles for a week at a detriment to their health. This increases risk of heart disease and illness due to a suppressed immune system (something the developer does not want and is in contradiction to their interest). Finding a way to allow for competitive, fun PVE gameplay without these risks is in the developers interest.

Any player that is grinding every 2.5, or now 3 hours, and not getting proper sleep each night, that operates heavy machinery during their week of play incurs at least some increased risk of accident or adverse health impact.

Sure, you can decide to play or not play PVE, but the question whether the game format by nature of its design creates contradictory outcomes is a valid question and one, I believe, the developer should consider.

Unknown

I also sympathize with the situation, so I will say a small piece.

I was gung ho in the beginning, trying to be the best. I then went casual/competitive in which I just did enough to put up a decent score so my alliance wouldn't suffer. Even now I am starting to tire of even doing that. I am as addicted as anyone else in this game. The time I put in to just be casual/competitive is too much for my personal taste, and while I do not let the game impede with my family life or sleep habits, I use all of my free time (some hours after my children go to bed - Steam User) to keep the pace that I set for myself. My addiction has caused me to give up reading my favorite authors (I now listen to audio books while I play). I am falling behind on watching my favorite T.V. shows. I spend most of my breaks and lunches trying to keep up with the forums so that I don't waste valuable game time when I get home.

I hope the new game mode coming up will breathe new life into the game. If it does not, then I know in my heart that the time is coming. The scales of balance will tip, and I will no longer find the amount of time I need to play at my own pace to be worth it. I will be sad, because I truly love this game and being a part of the forum community. Whether I last another week or another year, I do not know. But something has to give sooner or later.

So while some may think that I was not sympathetic with the OP, it is not the case. Everything in moderation. To use a few of the analogies from my previous post, there is nothing wrong with having an alcoholic drink or visiting a casino. But when the time comes that you are constantly going to work hungover, selling your belongings for a casino trip, or playing MPQ while driving down a highway, then there is a problem that needs addressed. That is for your health and well being. Don't let anything, whether it is a substance, game, or other "high" risk your life or the life of others.

Yes, it would be nice if there was a way to consistently play this game without competition and win meaningful rewards. But until that time comes, realize that the sacrifices you make are your own choice. No one NEEDS this game. The game does not MAKE you play it. Just like alcohol doesn't pour itself into your glass or your wallet does not open itself at a casino.

Addiction is hard to overcome. It usually takes a very serious event to give someone the will to overcome it. I hope that the OP overcomes the addiction. I hope I do as well.