Balance of Power is how the game should be

JVReal

homeinvasion wrote:

JVReal wrote:

I do enjoy these events, but my shard must be shallow because I skipped two different nodes and got the same opponent, twice. I only have 70 points... and I'm rank 75. How does the matchmaking work when everyone is maxed?

Too_many_pants
lokivsleah
eld_the_preth

These are the only people my nodes keeps rotating through.

ok take away the idea that 1 stars become the new 4 stars, do you prefer having a wide option of characters to select before each match?

I do enjoy these, because I get to try new characters I seldom get to try just to see how they mesh. I really want to try CStorm and MNMagneto because I don't have enough Iso to level those guys, so even though they're pretty well covered, level wise they lack. In this event, they are maxed for me and boosted so I can see how they play out before they are dead... lol.

homeinvasion

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

homeinvasion wrote:

I Largely agree, but do you not think that thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of players are put off with having to two star transition, then three star transition and now 4 star transition? How is a new player meant to get a team of Xforce/ Thor4/ Fury within 2 years? The game has progressed so far that new players are completely excluded. And while I agree the vets, the peeps that made the game what it is should have some advantage, don't you agree that the advantage should be with character selection range? The process at the moment is prohibitively exclusive to new players. Would you seriously as a new player realize you need to transition to 4 star land, in what 3 years, before you can be part of the meta? It's a dumb design. Have one meta that peeps can meekly inhabit with 3 characters, or dominate with 100 choices.

The hundreds of thousands of players will have a multitude of reasons they play the game, many of which don't involve the meta at all.

I've mentioned this before, but I think sometimes it should be required to hang out in the lower tiers of an event. If a bracket has 1000 players, hang out around 500 or so and see how little effort is actually required to stay there. That's where over half the player base is. They put up a couple hundred points in PvP, couple thousand in PvE. They don't have 50 roster spots, they have maybe 20. Getting 4Thor means less than them than getting Spider-Man, because they grew up with spider-man or some other reason.

On that, I know my own experience. I joined in February, 4 months after the game was live and after many of the vets were already established in their tier. It was 3 months before I even found the forums and in that time I never once worried about which characters were better than which, or all the other nonsense that comes with competitive play. I dropped more 3*s than I can even remember now because I didn't have the spots and didn't want to spend the money. Even once I did buy spots, start collecting everything, and did start to understand the meta, I've never once worried how long it would take. I like the game. It's a distraction. If I never again place 1st in a PvP (which I've only done once, at like 850 pts or something funny), I truly don't care. That's my perspective. Unless you're gonna drop serious coin on this game, you're not keeping up in the meta anyway. But if you will spend to keep up, then accelerating by just buying covers is a viable option, so then you've got an answer to the 2 year problem anyway.

I get that it's harder now, and I also get that people are way more competitive about video games than I am. So I get that there's a small subset of players where reaching the top tier is just too exhausting for their liking. I don't get wanting to change the game to appeal to that subset now or in the future.

Good points, but isn't the answer to all this that we are all the peeps that keep this game alive and what we want. More and more this game creates this unassailable divide between the whales, the old school and new players. Its a catastrophe waiting to happen. They appease their whales/ old school, which I am part of, at the expense of the new players. Ergo: Whales and old school love to smash the newbies with their 4 stars and feel like they are oh so powerful. Consider a new players view of this! I need to transition for 2-3 years before I am competitive or spend a truck of money, you know what, Clash of Clans looks pretty good. D3 don't have an amazing product, they have a fun, marginally viable product that can easily be ignored if this level disparity continues. honestly if the game is to survive long term they need to get rid of the character stars.

simonsez

homeinvasion wrote:

I for one think that BOP perfectly demonstrates what this game could be. A wide variety of roster, strategic choices, team select before every match, a genuine puzzle and a deeper level of thought all round. No 1 stars or 4 stars, just characters, play options and all round better. What do you think?

I think you're trolling, or on crack. Unless juggs/obw/someone else counts as variety, I don't see it. An "anyone can beat anyone" mode is about as satisfying as a coin flip simulator. That said, I wouldn't mind it as a separate play mode, but including it in the PvP rotation is something I wish would stop.

homeinvasion

JVReal wrote:

homeinvasion wrote:

JVReal wrote:

I do enjoy these events, but my shard must be shallow because I skipped two different nodes and got the same opponent, twice. I only have 70 points... and I'm rank 75. How does the matchmaking work when everyone is maxed?

Too_many_pants
lokivsleah
eld_the_preth

These are the only people my nodes keeps rotating through.

ok take away the idea that 1 stars become the new 4 stars, do you prefer having a wide option of characters to select before each match?

I do enjoy these, because I get to try new characters I seldom get to try just to see how they mesh. I really want to try CStorm and MNMagneto because I don't have enough Iso to level those guys, so even though they're pretty well covered, level wise they lack. In this event, they are maxed for me and boosted so I can see how they play out before they are dead... lol.

Fantastic point, thanks for your input

homeinvasion

simonsez wrote:

homeinvasion wrote:

I for one think that BOP perfectly demonstrates what this game could be. A wide variety of roster, strategic choices, team select before every match, a genuine puzzle and a deeper level of thought all round. No 1 stars or 4 stars, just characters, play options and all round better. What do you think?

I think you're trolling, or on crack. Unless juggs/obw/someone else counts as variety, I don't see it. An "anyone can beat anyone" mode is about as satisfying as a coin flip simulator. That said, I wouldn't mind it as a separate play mode, but including it in the PvP rotation is something I wish would stop.

Simon what I am saying is I would love a strategy to this game. See this post http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19722
specifically this: AP Steal > Big AOE Abilities > Fast individual damage > Heal > Defense tiles > Tanks > Strike Tiles > back to AP steal

wouldn't that make a better game?

Unknown

homeinvasion wrote:

simonsez wrote:

homeinvasion wrote:

I for one think that BOP perfectly demonstrates what this game could be. A wide variety of roster, strategic choices, team select before every match, a genuine puzzle and a deeper level of thought all round. No 1 stars or 4 stars, just characters, play options and all round better. What do you think?

I think you're trolling, or on crack. Unless juggs/obw/someone else counts as variety, I don't see it. An "anyone can beat anyone" mode is about as satisfying as a coin flip simulator. That said, I wouldn't mind it as a separate play mode, but including it in the PvP rotation is something I wish would stop.

Simon what I am saying is I would love a strategy to this game. See this post http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=19722
specifically this: AP Steal > Big AOE Abilities > Fast individual damage > Heal > Defense tiles > Tanks > Strike Tiles > back to AP steal

wouldn't that make a better game?

And they can solve world hunger while they're at it

GrumpySmurf1002

homeinvasion wrote:

Good points, but isn't the answer to all this that we are all the peeps that keep this game alive and what we want. More and more this game creates this unassailable divide between the whales, the old school and new players. Its a catastrophe waiting to happen. They appease their whales/ old school, which I am part of, at the expense of the new players. Ergo: Whales and old school love to smash the newbies with their 4 stars and feel like they are oh so powerful. Consider a new players view of this! I need to transition for 2-3 years before I am competitive or spend a truck of money, you know what, Clash of Clans looks pretty good. D3 don't have an amazing product, they have a fun, marginally viable product that can easily be ignored if this level disparity continues. honestly if the game is to survive long term they need to get rid of the character stars.

Again, there's nothing that says a new player wants to be competitive, nor is there is a sign on the door that says "this will take 2 years." (I also don't agree with the 2-3 year time frame, mine was 6 months, it might be 9 now but not 36). People can join for as simple as my initial reason for downloading: "ooh, a match 3 with marvel characters." Clash of Clans might be the most fun game ever invented, I won't know because it's not really my cup of tea. More specifically, it's not "match 3 with marvel characters."

I just don't at all see the level divide as some barrier of fun.

Hulk11

I can say this is the first mode in awhile where I considered buying health packs. Just my opinion on this mode.

Unknown

I've grown to hate this event. I accept it as a nice way to mix things up, and a chance to level the playing field, but games like this are supposed to reward effort, and time spent on development, and yes, in some cases, money spent. Permanently taking away the advantages I've earned would make the game lose appeal for me quickly. There are already enough mechanisms in place to minimize that advantage with out going full communist.

Unknown

I'm curious. What is the counter to Juggs/OBW besides Juggs/OBW? LDaken with Green/Pink denial?

Juggs/OBW have pretty good defensive synergy when both are over-leveled.

hex706f726368

jralbino wrote:

I've grown to hate this event. I accept it as a nice way to mix things up, and a chance to level the playing field, but games like this are supposed to reward effort, and time spent on development, and yes, in some cases, money spent. Permanently taking away the advantages I've earned would make the game lose appeal for me quickly. There are already enough mechanisms in place to minimize that advantage with out going full communist.

I agree and not because we are in the same alliance. I don't mind this event too much outside the season and with repeat awards though.

If BoP were how the game was all the time, I'd have an army of level 1 juggernauts on my roster and I'd just laugh at my health packs the whole time.

Dayv

I actually find Balance of Power to be boring. It punishes you for leveling up your characters by increasing their healing time, it doesn't reward your efforts at building your favorite characters, and it just feels like a chaotic and pointless demolition derby.

GuntherBlobel

hermanbloom wrote:

But the customer is always right! We are the customers, if it is what we want and demand, they will change. "It is the possibility of a dream coming true that makes life worth living" Paulo Coelho

I agree that this format is more like what I would like the game to be. However, the customer is not always right. The customer is only right if they are willing to pay, and pay enough to support the product/service. Not all great business ideas and products succeed in the marketplace and for no other reason except that the business model failed.

The tiered and unfair meta game that MPQ adopts was adopted because it is a proven business model. Personally, I don't like it but it does support the game. I would like Demiurge to challenge the typical F2P model now that they have success, but I fully understand why it is the way it is. Apparently, people really dig unfair games and will spend lots money to get even a small advantage. And that is why MPQ still exists.

MarvelMan

homeinvasion wrote:

More and more this game creates this unassailable divide between the whales, the old school and new players. Its a catastrophe waiting to happen. They appease their whales/ old school, which I am part of, at the expense of the new players. Ergo: Whales and old school love to smash the newbies with their 4 stars and feel like they are oh so powerful. Consider a new players view of this! I need to transition for 2-3 years before I am competitive or spend a truck of money, you know what, Clash of Clans looks pretty good.

Youre on crack if you think that the game is heavily weighted towards the whales/old school staying "rich." The game does a LOT to minimize that advantage, particularly in PVE. Its not as bad as it once was, there was a time last spring when the top 10 in my PVE bracket were the top ten was all non-covered, low level 1* players, but it is easier for newbs. The difficult part is the transition stage, where you arent quite strong enough to play with the big boys, but that is how you get the covers to do it. Its incredibly easy to get to the transition stage these days.

As for the transition taking 2-3 years? Wow. Mine took only a few (4-6) months. And that was over this past summer, when yes, it was easier than now but not as easy as last winter/spring. And I am completely F2P, not even dropping $$ for roster slots.

simonsez

homeinvasion wrote:

Simon what I am saying is I would love a strategy to this game

Me too, but BoP has too much going on with it that I hate. You're not rewarded for spending time on developing a roster (hell, you're actually penalized if you DO level them), the buffs applied to 1s and 2s make them ridiculously overpowered relative to the health buff you get, and I see more frustration than strategy when going up against juggs/obw nonstop.

Here's a game mode I'd like to see that would offer more formation variety and strategy, without any of the stuff I hate about BoP:

You're matched with an opponent, either real or AI. They set 3 different formations, and you must battle each one without using the same character twice. Then you set 3 different formations, and your opponent battles you 3 times with 3 different formations. Whoever wins the most battles, wins. If tied 3-3, % damage is the tie-breaker.

You're rewarded for a deep roster, you have to think about the best way to use them to get 3 good combinations, and you have to think about how to best match them up against the 3 formations your opponent presents to you.

FaerieMyst

homeinvasion wrote:

I for one think that BOP perfectly demonstrates what this game could be. A wide variety of roster, strategic choices, team select before every match, a genuine puzzle and a deeper level of thought all round. No 1 stars or 4 stars, just characters, play options and all round better. What do you think?

I totally agree with your first two sentences. I think the intent of the game is exactly that. Developing and playing with a deep roster that lets you select the best team and make strategic choices. What characters to level and what builds to create are strategic choice that drive how I play the game.

As to the issue of stars, that is where I disagree. The star system creates a natural development path for building your roster.

Balance of Power is fun once a month for a few days. It's like an MPQ bender: a free for all where you can play anything. After a while, it gets boring. There is no challenge and very little strategy.

Unknown

If this were the entire game, there would be no end game.

And with nothing to build towards(1 stars competing with 4 stars), most people would probably not last with this game.

homeinvasion

daibar wrote:

I'm curious. What is the counter to Juggs/OBW besides Juggs/OBW? LDaken with Green/Pink denial?

Juggs/OBW have pretty good defensive synergy when both are over-leveled.

use regen/ strike tilke characters, best combo is Groot/ Patch/ Daken

homeinvasion

onimus wrote:

If this were the entire game, there would be no end game.

And with nothing to build towards(1 stars competing with 4 stars), most people would probably not last with this game.

Look I am starting to agree with you guys, I guess I am frustrated atm with a system that has 3 viable 4 star character, so no choice at all.

Unknown

Yeah...except hood will still rule over all. Hood+ares/daken/Venom/Juggs owns all, now that Sentry was beaten down with the nerf stick. Funnily enough xforce becomes kinda fair. Surprisingly, though, Blade and Mystique become pretty OP as well.