Poor artwork choices!

Unknown

What do you mean, the cover is great. Other than that there seems to be a bit of confusion around what the actual cover is. Here she is in all her glory.

Chrono_Tata

RefinedBean wrote:

I define T&A poses as being GRATUITOUS and designed, specifically, to show off **** and ****.

I just don't think that pose does either. I dunno. I'm probably in the minority.

I agree with you. She's just facing sideways and not contorting her body in any extreme way (unlike the Black Panther character select portrait). Nothing gratuitous about it.

TazFTW

The only Kirby cover is Devil Dino. We need more Kirby!

Unknown

Chrono_Tata wrote:

RefinedBean wrote:

I define T&A poses as being GRATUITOUS and designed, specifically, to show off **** and ****.

I just don't think that pose does either. I dunno. I'm probably in the minority.

I agree with you. She's just facing sideways and not contorting her body in any extreme way (unlike the Black Panther character select portrait). Nothing gratuitous about it.

I thought the way she was facing away from the screen, yet keeping one eye towards you was meant to signify her evasive nature and her knack for getting people to lower their guard the moment before she struck. She looks harmless, right?

Perhaps I'm not sexualizing her enough? (joking)

loroku

RefinedBean wrote:

Is that really a T&A pose?

Yes. It's not only an impossible / nearly impossible "spinebreaking" pose ("spinebreaking" meaning: it would nearly break your spine to get in that position) but in fact - as another poster said - this is literally a T&A pose because she's showing T and A.

RefinedBean wrote:

I define T&A poses as being GRATUITOUS and designed, specifically, to show off **** and ****.

Again: this is literally what she is doing. It's not a casual turn - people's bodies don't work that way. You can't really see the right side of her butt while also seeing nearly all of her left **** if she weren't being distorted for the shot. (Look at her right arm - doesn't it look like maybe it's out of socket or something?) She is placed into a weird, awkward pose designed to show T&A that has no functionality whatsoever. It's not an active pose, it's not designed to show her being strong or beguiling or mysterious - it is 100% designed to show her boob and **** at the same time in a gratuitous fashion. That's it.

Now, this DOES happen so often in comics / gaming / generally any geek culture that it's easy to forget that every time you see it, it's a gratuitous sexist pose. That doesn't make it better.

Unknown

The Mystique comic cover is certainly unusual, but it is distinctive, and conveys her shapeshifting power pretty well. As far as the character artwork, I think it must be difficult to draw any of these characters, male or female, without making them somewhat sexualized. (OK, maybe not Doc Ock.) After all, they mostly wear these skin-tight outfits that show off their athletic super-powered physiques. So I give props to the artist for at least trying to do something new rather than photoshopping blue skin and red hair onto an already existing drawing. We've seen too much of that kind of artwork in the past.

Unknown

They should have just went with Mystique issue 20 cover, if they wanted to go away from T&A. This one is just plain odd, and really doesn't feature the featured character at all.

Personally, I would have just went with one of the classics in her white outfit. I'm sure there were some that would have been great, but nothing came to mind imediately and my quick search found nothing.

Unknown

I like the cover a lot.
Mystique is painted on all these heads even though it's the other way around and she "paints" herself with these hands. I haven't read any comics of her but this one makes me curious.

Unknown

loroku wrote:

RefinedBean wrote:

Is that really a T&A pose?

Yes. It's not only an impossible / nearly impossible "spinebreaking" pose ("spinebreaking" meaning: it would nearly break your spine to get in that position) but in fact - as another poster said - this is literally a T&A pose because she's showing T and A.

RefinedBean wrote:

I define T&A poses as being GRATUITOUS and designed, specifically, to show off **** and ****.

Again: this is literally what she is doing. It's not a casual turn - people's bodies don't work that way. You can't really see the right side of her butt while also seeing nearly all of her left **** if she weren't being distorted for the shot. (Look at her right arm - doesn't it look like maybe it's out of socket or something?) She is placed into a weird, awkward pose designed to show T&A that has no functionality whatsoever. It's not an active pose, it's not designed to show her being strong or beguiling or mysterious - it is 100% designed to show her boob and **** at the same time in a gratuitous fashion. That's it.

Now, this DOES happen so often in comics / gaming / generally any geek culture that it's easy to forget that every time you see it, it's a gratuitous sexist pose. That doesn't make it better.

To your first point, I have to disagree. Seriously. She's facing slightly away and then turning towards us slightly. Her **** is not prominent (it doesn't have a defined outline in her costume - it really just blends in with her entire figure), and her **** are basically 3/4 a side-boob. I don't see how this is spine-twisting. It looks maybe a wee bit yoga-ish, sure, but most people without spinal conditions can do that.

Also, you seem VERY certain of the artist's intent, but I think there's some room for subjectivity here. You see it as a T&A pose, I don't, others do, others don't - I just don't feel it's as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

Unknown

GuiltTrip wrote:

They should have just went with Mystique issue 20 cover, if they wanted to go away from T&A. This one is just plain odd, and really doesn't feature the featured character at all.

Personally, I would have just went with one of the classics in her white outfit. I'm sure there were some that would have been great, but nothing came to mind imediately and my quick search found nothing.

Same could be said about Lazy Daken's cover. "Hey bro! Check out this fist!"

Unknown

loroku wrote:

RefinedBean wrote:

Is that really a T&A pose?

Yes. It's not only an impossible / nearly impossible "spinebreaking" pose ("spinebreaking" meaning: it would nearly break your spine to get in that position) but in fact - as another poster said - this is literally a T&A pose because she's showing T and A.

RefinedBean wrote:

I define T&A poses as being GRATUITOUS and designed, specifically, to show off **** and ****.

Again: this is literally what she is doing. It's not a casual turn - people's bodies don't work that way. You can't really see the right side of her butt while also seeing nearly all of her left **** if she weren't being distorted for the shot. (Look at her right arm - doesn't it look like maybe it's out of socket or something?) She is placed into a weird, awkward pose designed to show T&A that has no functionality whatsoever. It's not an active pose, it's not designed to show her being strong or beguiling or mysterious - it is 100% designed to show her boob and **** at the same time in a gratuitous fashion. That's it.

Now, this DOES happen so often in comics / gaming / generally any geek culture that it's easy to forget that every time you see it, it's a gratuitous sexist pose. That doesn't make it better.

Devil Dino has the same "spinebreaking" pose. Seriously, look at him. His neck is turned around to gratuitously show his chest and tail, as if the artist wanted to "present" him in a sexual way. Look at how his right forearm is shrouded by his overly-muscular chest - what kind of example does that set for young dinosaurs? He is also placed in a weird, awkward pose designed to show how prehensile his tail is while also presenting a thick, muscular leg.

By the way, see his other leg? I don't think I need to point this out but I will anyway - obvious phallic imagery.

It's not an active pose, it's not designed to show him being the thoughtful/intelligent/excellent dancer we all know him to be. The over-sexualization of dinosaurs needs to stop - it's way too prevalent in ancient reptile culture. You see it so often in the archaeopteryx, velociraptor, and members of the orinthomimidae family that you don't realize it's a gratuitous sexist pose. That doesn't make it any better.

Nellobee

RefinedBean wrote:

Is that really a T&A pose? It looks really tame to me. She has one of the smaller sets of **** I've seen in the game/Marvel Universe.

We could have her sitting at a desk, typing up her memoirs. Would that be better?

Mystique's memoirs would be a hell of a read, come to think of it...

Unknown

I am actually sick of seeing Jim Lees X Men 20yrs later. If Rogue makes it in the game she better not be wearing that damn leather jacket.

loroku

RefinedBean wrote:

Also, you seem VERY certain of the artist's intent, but I think there's some room for subjectivity here. You see it as a T&A pose, I don't, others do, others don't - I just don't feel it's as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

loroku wrote:

Now, this DOES happen so often in comics / gaming / generally any geek culture that it's easy to forget that every time you see it, it's a gratuitous sexist pose.

I still feel pretty strongly that an actual person would have real difficulty getting into that pose; we just see it so much we forget how impossible it is and so it gets normalized. As for the intent: the artist may not have sat down and said, "I want to draw this female character from a male gaze perspective that shows her as passive and shows off her T&A at the same time since that will make her easier to objectify as a sex object," but whether or not they did is irrelevant. This is what they produced. The "intent" may have been too "look badass" but the result is sexist.

whereisbatman wrote:

Devil Dino has the same "spinebreaking" pose.

Thank goodness Dino isn't human and a gender that has been historically represented in a sexist way in comic book art. I know the word "straw man" gets thrown around a LOT on the internet, but I think this is an actual example. You've just compared the historical and ongoing plight of objectification and sexism against women in comic book art to a dinosaur. You kind of deserve to be slapped.

Unknown

loroku wrote:

I still feel pretty strongly that an actual person would have real difficulty getting into that pose; we just see it so much we forget how impossible it is and so it gets normalized. As for the intent: the artist may not have sat down and said, "I want to draw this female character from a male gaze perspective that shows her as passive and shows off her T&A at the same time since that will make her easier to objectify as a sex object," but whether or not they did is irrelevant. This is what they produced. The "intent" may have been too "look badass" but the result is sexist.
...
Thank goodness Dino isn't human and a gender that has been historically represented in a sexist way in comic book art. I know the word "straw man" gets thrown around a LOT on the internet, but I think this is an actual example. You've just compared the historical and ongoing plight of objectification and sexism against women in comic book art to a dinosaur. You kind of deserve to be slapped.

If you are a troll, this is pretty good; multi-threaded consistent complaints. The use of 'straw man' to make a straw man complaint was a fine, artful touch. Next we can complain about how the thread title 'Mystique Revealed' provokes shades of disrobement, and is exploitative of the stripper industry!

If you are not, please go to a local community center where there are fitness classes where regular people who bend like this and more all the time. I can't imagine what type of problems you'd have with the other characters, eg MBW.

GuntherBlobel

daibar wrote:

loroku wrote:

I still feel pretty strongly that an actual person would have real difficulty getting into that pose; we just see it so much we forget how impossible it is and so it gets normalized. As for the intent: the artist may not have sat down and said, "I want to draw this female character from a male gaze perspective that shows her as passive and shows off her T&A at the same time since that will make her easier to objectify as a sex object," but whether or not they did is irrelevant. This is what they produced. The "intent" may have been too "look badass" but the result is sexist.
...
Thank goodness Dino isn't human and a gender that has been historically represented in a sexist way in comic book art. I know the word "straw man" gets thrown around a LOT on the internet, but I think this is an actual example. You've just compared the historical and ongoing plight of objectification and sexism against women in comic book art to a dinosaur. You kind of deserve to be slapped.

If you are a troll, this is pretty good; multi-threaded consistent complaints. The use of 'straw man' to make a straw man complaint was a fine, artful touch. Next we can complain about how the thread title 'Mystique Revealed' provokes shades of disrobement, and is exploitative of the stripper industry!

If you are not, please go to a local community center where there are fitness classes where regular people who bend like this and more all the time. I can't imagine what type of problems you'd have with the other characters, eg MBW.

I'm pretty sure that loroku is NOT the troll here. Everything said by loroku makes sense to me, and it should, because Mystique's pose just one example of a well known trope (http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/). Mystique's pose is hardly the worst I've seen and it may even be anatomically possible, but it still fits the trope to a T (and A).

Nitpicking and false equivalency (with a Dinosaur) aren't going to change that.

Unknown

After relooking at it a hundred times, I see 2 major problems:
1. The right arm. They wanted to show too much of it, so it is jutted out of it's sockets.
2. The left foot is tilted too far inwards. Although this pose is easier with heels, I think they over did it, as the toe of the left foot will definitely start to turn more the viewer. The left foot is more tilted than the right foot, which should indicate she's turning counter-clockwise (facing down) towards the viewer.

TheViceroy

I found the "welcome to the gun show" arm pose the most distracting part. Sadly the T&A pose is something to be expected, especially for this character.
It was like "if we put her arm in a more normal pose, it would potentially be in front of her ****, and we can't have that".
That made it seem like the art is trying too hard to convey something. Whether it be the T&A "**** & side boob pose" trope, or whatever.

Have little problem with the comic cover. Nice nod to the Great Gatsby.

Unknown

I actually really like the cover that they picked, and while I think the pose isn't the worst one in the game for drawing an anatomically incorrect female character to sexualize her (*cough* Moonstone *cough*), I definitely agree that it isn't good.

dr tinykittylove

I think the best answer to the question of whether Mystique's pose is a good one would be for all the contenders to try making that pose themselves. And post pictures.