Compilation of Suggested Sentry Fixes (Updated 10/23)

Since fixing Sentry is a big topic of discussion, and there was some rumor at NYCC that he's on the chopping block, I thought I would start scouring the posts to see what suggestions were out there. Feel free to add any that I may miss (this will be an ongoing editing as I find time to do this).
  1. Increase World Rupture cost by 3: Increasing costs in the most common suggestion to slow him down. Moving World Rupture from 7 to 10 means an extra match is required to fire this off, which would drastically slow him down, especially if you're not boosting.
  2. Add a Stun to sacrifice: There are several variants to this one.
    • Stuns for a fixed number of turns at the same time that it drops the strike tile. The advantage is that the rest of the team immediately takes advantage of his sacrifice while still keeping World Rupture from counting down.
    • Puts a countdown on a random tile at the same time it puts out the strike tile. Sentry is stunned for as long as that countdown is out (similar to Redwing). The advantage here is that you can negate the penalty by matching that tile away. Also benefits from Hood and is susceptible to OBW.
    • Puts out only a countdown and then puts the strike tile out when it expires (similar to Fury). This means a longer time needed to protect the tile, as well as a 1 turn lag behind World Rupture. Also interacts with Hood and OBW.
  3. Decrease his overall health. A less popular option, but one that reflects his mental / emotional vulnerability. Possibly allows for him to be burned down or makes the use of his self-damaging abilities more of a tactical decision instead of an auto-use.
  4. Clarified!!!Only the first countdown on a turn benefits from Strike tiles. Having the strike tiles only affect the first World Rupture tile to go off would drastically nerf this ability. If strike tiles still affect tile matches, the likely cascades would still be devastating but the ability itself would do far less damage.
  5. Make the first World Rupture tile destroy every world rupture tile and do damage for each tile destroyed. This functions the same way as one of the goon mutant tiles (destroys all purple) or similar to Fury's Demolition where the first trap matched destroys all other traps matched.
  6. Make World Rupture a single target ability instead of AOE.. This would likely kill 1 opponent and start damaging a 2nd. Could also include reducing or removing the self-damage portion of the ability as well.
  7. Reduce the damage done by Sacrifice. Knock off a portion of the damage the strike tile does and a similar portion of the self damage it does.
  8. Replace Sacrifice with a different ability. World Rupture seems more fundamental to the character design than Sacrifice. Removing Sacrifice would make World Rupture less strong while also creating a dependency on another character to generate strike tiles.
  9. Reduce the number of World Rupture tiles, but increase their damage. Overall ability damage would remain the same, but would reduce the impact of strike tiles. It would also reduce the number of potential cascades which further reduces the impact of strike tiles on World Rupture.
  10. Staggered World Rupture countdowns. When World Rupture is cast, have a third of the countdowns be <x>, a third be <x+1>, and a third be <x+2>. This would mean more time to react to the ability as well as a longer time to protect and/or create strike tiles.
  11. Seriously slow down animation for World Rupture. Reminiscent of the old Daken passive, annoy players into submission. Make shield hopping less feasible by slowing down the match length while leaving the power's ability intact.
  12. New!!!Change World Rupture to Black. Changing World Rupture away from green reduces his synergy with Daken and Hood and seriously slows the combo down.
  13. New!!!Increase self-damage. Make it more costly to the player to use this ability. Would be hard to avoid further allegations of "pay 2 win" with this option.
  14. New!!!Turn the countdown tiles into visible traps. Each time one is matched, the effect for that trap goes off. Allow tile overwriting as it exists now. This kills the current shield-hopping strategies with this character while adding "flavor" to the board (the "visible traps" could be "ruptured tiles").
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Comments

  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,438 Chairperson of the Boards
    #1 Make World Rupture an individual attack instead of AOE. You then remove the self damage portion of World Rupture. This allows him to be extremly strong but will not kill everyone. 1 WR will not kill an entire team, but would take out 1 maybe 2 characters.

    #2 reduce the damage done by Sacrafice. Knock off 25% of the damage the strike tile does and 25% of the self damage it does. This will also decrease the damage WR can do.

    #3 change Sacrafice so it is not a strike tile and give Sentry a completly different power. Don't know what it would be, but it would make WR not as deadly as well. Any suggestions?
  • I'd add:
    Turn Sacrifice into an attack tile - it would still be effective, but it wouldn't stack with world rupture.
    Reduce the number of WR tiles, but increase their damage (strike tiles wouldn't unbalance it as much)
    Change WR - Make a third of the tiles go off two turns later, a third three turns, a third four turns - Wouldn't completely end its problems, but would 1) slow it down and 2)make it easier to react to
    Seriously slow down animation for World Rupture - this would only affect rapid shield hopping, though. He'd still be unbalanced.
  • Thanks for the suggestions. I cleaned them up slightly (mostly just removed numeric specifics) and added them to the list.
  • Ben Grimm wrote:
    Seriously slow down animation for World Rupture - this would only affect rapid shield hopping, though. He'd still be unbalanced.

    Haha, just do the Sentry flying in animation after every world rupture countdown ends. No one would ever finish a game in under 5 minutes. icon_mrgreen.gif
  • ErikPeterErikPeter Posts: 718 Critical Contributor
    You should make this into a poll.
  • Each WR countdown going off also destroys a random yellow tile for no damage.

    This would increase the cascade potential, possibly by a lot.
    This would also destroy the Sacrifice strike tile after a few hits making the rest of the rupture much less scary. But might happen first time, might make it to the 12th countdown, random makes it less of a surefire strategy.

    Alternatively could simply start removing strike tiles like Daken's Blue does.
  • I think #6 is the best suggestion. It would be pretty much like HT Red. Although 5 works quite well too.
  • This kind of stuff always gonna happen, *Nerf Tier 1, please*. I've reading all the suggestions and I don´t think the character needs to be hit. He's Sentry the one with the power of one million of suns exploding. Look at Magneto, He's no more than an anchor (and a bad one) right now. It'll need a very cool tuning.
  • Kryztoff46 wrote:
    This kind of stuff always gonna happen, *Nerf Tier 1, please*. I've reading all the suggestions and I don´t think the character needs to be hit. He's Sentry the one with the power of one million of suns exploding. Look at Magneto, He's no more than an anchor (and a bad one) right now. It'll need a very cool tuning.
    I'm not sure what your point is? You're saying that even though everyone knows that high-end versus events lack any variability in the team composition, that's an ok game design? What a terrible concept. It takes away any strategy and decisions for leveling characters - there's only 3 needed - Daken, Sentry, and Hood. It also means that any cover rewards you earn are also just trophies b/c you'll never need or use them. So who cares if this character has the power of a million suns exploding; if he makes the game less vibrant or less fun to play (and the general consensus is that Sentry accomplishes both), then he needs fixed.

    I've played Sentry / Daken / Hood in BOP with no boosting and I got bored pretty darn quickly of going off on turn 5-7 and winning with little to no threat of loss. If every tournament was like that, I'd quit within a couple weeks and have zero incentive to give D3 more money for what would be a pretty mediocre game. Making a decent game that's fun to play is more important than fulfilling the nuances of character flavor. If that latter were true, Wolverine would auto-lose to Mags in every single match.
  • NellysonNellyson Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker
    Bullet point idea 6. Make WR a single target attack. That'll fix a lot of issues about WR. Still makes him have the power of exploding suns, but doesn't ruin the game. I still think it should do team damage tho, but less if it's a single attack. Maybe just team damage when he first sets it off. It is meant to jolt both teams, so maybe having it just affect your team on the use of the skill would work.
  • Kryztoff46 wrote:
    This kind of stuff always gonna happen, *Nerf Tier 1, please*. I've reading all the suggestions and I don´t think the character needs to be hit. He's Sentry the one with the power of one million of suns exploding. Look at Magneto, He's no more than an anchor (and a bad one) right now. It'll need a very cool tuning.

    Yeah, within the confines of a versus game there has to be some balance. Otherwise you are that guy who is playing paper rock scissors, and then shouts ATOMIC BOMB KILLS EVERYTHING I WIN! No one liked that guy. Sentry can stay strong, but if a single character is dominating the entire top tier meta something is wrong. Sure they could release two more similarly OP characters but then they further push everyone else down into the do-not-use pile.
  • You guys think that they must make adjusments to Daken*** and Hood*** too?
  • Kryztoff46 wrote:
    Kryztoff46 wrote:
    This kind of stuff always gonna happen, *Nerf Tier 1, please*. I've reading all the suggestions and I don´t think the character needs to be hit. He's Sentry the one with the power of one million of suns exploding. Look at Magneto, He's no more than an anchor (and a bad one) right now. It'll need a very cool tuning.

    Yeah, within the confines of a versus game there has to be some balance. Otherwise you are that guy who is playing paper rock scissors, and then shouts ATOMIC BOMB KILLS EVERYTHING I WIN! No one liked that guy. Sentry can stay strong, but if a single character is dominating the entire top tier meta something is wrong
    . Sure they could release two more similarly OP characters but then they further push everyone else down into the do-not-use pile.


    You guys think that they must make adjusments to Daken*** and Hood*** too?[/quote]
    I'm beginning to think you're just trolling. Rather than argue the underlying game design principles you're just making random tangential comments.
  • lorokuloroku Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,010 Chairperson of the Boards
    My suggestions from another thread. It's important to note that only 1 change isn't going to work; you have to think of how these work in conjunction. Also, one of the reasons I like these changes is because none of them require much effort on the devs' part; they are all just minor tweaks to existing mechanics and don't introduce anything new or unique.

    - change World Rupture to black (not sure why it wasn't black anyway)
    - change cost to 10 AP
    - reinstate original animation time

    This would nullify his ability to combo so well with Hood (both need black), slightly reduce his effectiveness with Daken (since green can't power Daken's strike tiles AND WR), and make sure you couldn't buy his first WR with anything short of a 4-match black. The animation time would just help stop the crazy speed game. Also:

    - change original number of countdown tiles to 4 from 8 with max 12 at level 5; increase damage done (to enemies and allies) by 15%

    This would keep the base power level nearly the same, but remove part of the massive multiplier threat. This would reduce the max damage from 16 * (174 + 674) = 13568 to all enemies (assuming max green and yellow) to 12 * (200 + 674) = 10488 to all enemies which means Hulk-level characters are not 100% kills.

    It's worth noting that one green match by 5/X/X 3* Daken will take this combo back to 100% kill range; that gives 2 x 46 strike tiles for 92, which makes it 12 * (200 + 674 + 92) = 11592, still just north of Hulk's 11475 at 166. So it's still the best team in the game (Sentry + Daken), but now it takes at least 3 or 4 matches to get going (yellow, green, black, black - or potentially a 4-match black) instead of 2 (yellow + black). In that light I'm not sure if that's enough or if he needs more nerfing.

    Adding from the suggestions above:

    While it would massively restructure the power, making it single-target offensive damage only would probably also be a great fix in addition to the above.
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 656 Critical Contributor
    I like #4 (Alter the interaction of World Rupture with Strike tiles) the most. It wouldn't be too different from how Nick Fury's trap tiles work. Just say in the WR description that one going off sets them all off. I believe there's a goon that does this too.

    I like #10 (Staggered countdowns) a lot as well. It's creative and it would work.
  • loroku wrote:
    - change original number of countdown tiles to 4 from 8 with max 12 at level 5; increase damage done (to enemies and allies) by 15%

    This would keep the base power level nearly the same, but remove part of the massive multiplier threat. This would reduce the max damage from 16 * (174 + 674) = 13568 to all enemies (assuming max green and yellow) to 12 * (200 + 674) = 10488 to all enemies which means Hulk-level characters are not 100% kills.
    I'm actually trying to avoid specific details like this. It's good to think about them, but from a brainstorming perspective, details will bog down the discussion, which is what I'm hoping this thread can provide to the devs (a base position to help spark ideas).

    I did add "change to black" and "increase self-damage" to the list. I'm a fan of the first, not so much the second. The second doesn't prevent him from winning quickly, it just increases health pack usage, which isn't a good tactical fix and would likely be received by the community as a "cash grab".
    I like #4 (Alter the interaction of World Rupture with Strike tiles) the most. It wouldn't be too different from how Nick Fury's trap tiles work. Just say in the WR description that one going off sets them all off. I believe there's a goon that does this too.
    I want to point out that "making this work like Nick's traps" is separate from "altering strike tile functionality" and is listed separately. The way I envisioned it (and perhaps I should clarify the original post, b/c this would have far reaching implications beyond just Sentry):
    • Only the first countdown per turn would benefit from strike tiles. All subsequent countdowns would not receive this benefit. This would also affect goon countdown tiles and multiple instances of Flame Jet.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,438 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think #6 would be the easy fix for him. I also think you could eliminate the self damage. There are other strong characters that with the combination of 2 of their powers can one shot other characters or close to it(Patch BR to TBTI, Lthor Thunderstrike to CoTS/X-Force surgical strike to X-Force/ Even Dare Devil ambush) so it is not OP. With that I would also get rid of self damage. Having to fire off 2 WR with Sacrifice is a lot of self damage. 14 total green's and the CD tiles would still make him kill everyone, but would require a more sustained push and not as fast. People might actually want to use his red for a change too as it is still a really good AOE ability.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2Nonce Equitaur 2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    For World Rupture.

    Turn the countdown tiles into visible traps. Each time one is matched, the effect for that trap goes off. Allow overwriting as it exists now.

    That would still be powerful, but it would take a lot of matching to trigger all of those traps. Hulk and Captain Marvel would love Sentry a lot more. Storm, Falcon, Magneto, and others able to toss up a lot of tiles would be more useful.

    This makes the field more like a ruptured world.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2Nonce Equitaur 2 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    Change the Rainbow Tile Buff, that gives +1 to yellowtile.pngredtile.pnggreentile.pngblacktile.pngbluetile.pngpurpletile.png .
    "Sorry, this Buff cannot be used by teams featuring Sentry."
    Could also apply to the yellowtile.pngredtile.png buff and the greentile.pngblacktile.png buff.
    When Lady Thor is fully released, she could be in the same category.


    Change Shields so that teams with Sentry cannot be Shielded. Sentry is a disrupted force, after all.
    "Sorry, you'll need to win a match with a team not featuring Sentry in order to Shield."
    That would severely slow down shield-hopping, at least by using Sentry.
  • Pwuz_Pwuz_ Posts: 1,168 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ok, I've finally got a suggestion.

    Remove the self-damage from the tiles as they go off.

    I know crazy right? That's not all, Sentry's team takes all that previous self-damage off the tiles as they go off upfront as the tiles are placed.

    This makes World Rupture WAY more risky since if Sentry takes too much damage over the course of the next two turns, it sputters out doing no damage at all. Not only that, but Sentry's team take the same amount of damage no matter how many tiles get matched or otherwise destroyed.

    Not sure how hard this would be to code though, since it really wouldn't be fair if the AI Sentry cast's a 2nd WR for a single tile, but takes the same damage.
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