balancing the Big 5

Polares

- I think Thor should only do 2259 damage with Call the Storm, without the added part of the character in front.

- Sentry just needs to add strike tiles once in World Rupture.

- And Magneto red should cost 5, but leave the blue as it is right now, being the most fun ability in the entire game (and blue on it is own is very powerfull but not OP without red)

- Patch is ok as it is right now, and Daken has its nerf already planned.

But I think what it is more important is they need to buff characters like XForce, IM, Doom, Loki or Daredevil. This should be their number 1 priority. It is a pitty to have characters as good as IM or Doom that can be used because they are not good enough

famousfoxking

Pylgrim wrote:

I believe the best way to fix Sentry is by having the World Rupture countdown tiles go off all at the same time (like attack tiles) that way they only benefit from strike tiles once.

That won't actually do it, as the strike damage would still be applied to the individual CDs.

An actual fix would be to remove the CD feature all together: do X damage and shatter (but not collect or do damage for) the tiles in the X pattern. Just like Power of Attorney works, but with a different pattern. That would apply strike damage once. It would also probably increase the cost of WR, because in any other power, adding a CD is a drawback, and increases the budget for damage. With WR, the way it currently works the CDs are a major feature, but my guess is that they still lower the cost of the power, rather than increasing it.

famousfoxking

Phantron wrote:

Do people just not notice that Phermone Rage works on other team's matches too when comparing it to other strike tile generating abilities? If it was on a color like purple at least you can say they wasted a match on an often unusable color, but green tile is prime estate in MPQ.

Well, LDaken's problems really stem from where he was ported from. Daken Jr is pretty clearly designed to be an anti-Wolverine, punishing Wolverine for picking up green to use Feral Claws. Jr is fine, because he's level capped and his strike tiles are so comparatively weak (and I believe he was never meant to have more than two powers). When brought up to a 3* (or massive scaling) things go koo-koo crazypants (that's a very technical term, I realize).

Hopefully, when they fix LDaken, they'll also fix the art for Chemical Reaction, cause Daken's middle claw comes from this wrist, not from between his middle and ring fingers.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Phantron wrote:

If it was on a weaker color at its current strength it'd still likely be overpowered, but it'd be a case of 'well we got some killer strike tiles but we don't have any use for this purple (or black) AP in our Sentry + Daken team'. That'd at least be somewhat fair.

You're right, moving it to purple would be much better. I like it.

Well it's not a good permanent fix because what if the next powerful character has his best attack on purple? Then you're back to where we started. It'll definitely work for now though since purple is not a good color to collect. A long term solution would either lower its overall strength or it'd require something clever like your suggestion for only on enemy matches, or require certain amount of AP to create tiles, or something else complicated.

This would instantly make deadpool better, even post C.Mags nerf, if his purple remains relatively unchanged C.Mags would still be a beast with this as well as Falcon and Spidey would all benefit. Hmmm, this actually might be the best fix for Daken.

OnesOwnGrief

famousfoxking wrote:

Hopefully, when they fix LDaken, they'll also fix the art for Chemical Reaction, cause Daken's middle claw comes from this wrist, not from between his middle and ring fingers.

Why would they fix something that's correct? You must be unfamiliar with Daken and refused to look at either of his covers in the game.

wymtime

The best thing to do is give minor buffs to some of the older characters. Most older characters just need their AP cost to go down and or get a health bump to be really good characters. Here are a couple of exaples:
Psylock: Have her red cost 6 AP for all and a bump in her health. This way for 6 red you get a strong strike tile and 1k damage. You can now pair her with a lot of other characters since her 2 main powers are really cheep and she does solid damage.

IM40- red 12AP does not drain other colors. Blue cost 15 AP does not drain other colors. Yellow cost 9 AP for levels 1-5 and get rid of the self stun. Becuase of his recharge blue is now atainable and is really a game ending volley when used with strike tiles. By fixing the cost of yellow to 9AP you don't have to **** him to 5,5,2 or 5,5,1.

GSBW- drop the cost of sniper rifle to 15. Aggresive recon to sniper rifle nuff said.

HT- get rid of the AP drain on his black and raise his health a little. He does high damage and has 3 strong damage abilities.

Lcap- lower yellow to 9 AP. This will let him throw out his protect tiles early and give him some time to get his red and blue. They can also reduce the power of his shield tiles since they will cost less.

This would bring 5 2nd and 3rd tier characters in balance with some if the OP. Some of them will still be slow but still very playable. I think the problem isn't with the top 5, but the fact that the game has gotten faster that these characters are just too slow or don't have enough health to be effecient. Some of the other 3* I have not really played with or need some real tweeking to there powers, but I think these buffs would be very welcomed by the community

famousfoxking

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

famousfoxking wrote:

Hopefully, when they fix LDaken, they'll also fix the art for Chemical Reaction, cause Daken's middle claw comes from this wrist, not from between his middle and ring fingers.

Why would they fix something that's correct? You must be unfamiliar with Daken and refused to look at either of his covers in the game.

Uh, that's what I'm saying. The Chemical Reaction art has all three claws coming from the back of his hand. The art should have the middle claw extending from his wrist.

OnesOwnGrief

famousfoxking wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

famousfoxking wrote:

Hopefully, when they fix LDaken, they'll also fix the art for Chemical Reaction, cause Daken's middle claw comes from this wrist, not from between his middle and ring fingers.

Why would they fix something that's correct? You must be unfamiliar with Daken and refused to look at either of his covers in the game.

Uh, that's what I'm saying. The Chemical Reaction art has all three claws coming from the back of his hand. The art should have the middle claw extending from his wrist.

:0 I never noticed it it's was incorrect on the art. His hands are closed and the animation is fast so its hard to tell if its from the front or back.

Edit: Holy ****! You're right. They need to get on that!

Dauthi

Coppertouret wrote:

why bother nerfing cmags? He's only op on offense, ai can't use him for tinykitty. I'd gladly fight him over sentry.

And if you have C.Mags you gladly fight anybody.

He isn't that bad on defense either. As others mentioned, if his red and blue start rolling (which can happen since they are ridiculously cheap) he can prolong the battle and offer cascades to his team.

rednailz

Thor - Maybe tone it down just a tad, especially on green, but every game needs a king, and Thor is pretty near teh top of the heap.

Daken - no real suggestions, but I think he's also the shareholding majority and catalist of the nerf sentry outcry

CMAGS - all know the nerf is coming. IMO his red is actually kinda lame and weak, the only good thing about it is spamming it, especially if there's a pile of strike tiles out there (thanks patch). fix is simple, more AP needed for red and blue matches. I don't think it's unfair that you can place the blue protect tiles wherever you like. Look at stever rogers, although his yellow needs 19 AP (or so) you can place 3 of them with 1 cover. he IS the master of magnitism and one of the most formidible bad guys in teh entire marvel universe, cut the guy some slack. He should be a top teir guy.

Patch - no nerf needed, people just get angry he can facilitate some stupid high damage. His green strike isn't used overly by AI and often works against them more than for them. Using his green strike is also suicidal if not done properly, and even if it is done properly,it still could end up costing you a lot of heal packs in teh long run. It's equal tiles for each side, how you going to nerf that? The enemy gets more strike tiles than patch? Lame. Plus it's Wolvie, one of teh most beloved heros in the marvel universe, so the game needs to make money and make people happy ei make their favorites rock. His red is really nothing special, and his heal, well, it's wolvie. Leave him where he is. Also, please fix X-Force wolvie....man...what a waste.

Sentry - Not marvel's answer to superman, which you can assertain from his powers alone if you don't read on him. It would be more accurate to say he's like a fractured or flawed or misfortuned superman. He can backfire on you in a heartbeat, and if he takes too much damage before getting off WR or SN, well, he ain't got nothing in his bag of tricks. Most of the complaints around him involve strike tiles, so easy fix, fix the effect of strike tiles. He's a top tier in the universe, so he should be walking all over minor x-men, avengers, ect. Black Widow vs Sentry in the marvel universe? Cmon. I think his power will be balanced out as the game progresses and there's some other heavy hitters on the scene. Right now it's basically Thor, and Sentry who are high level multi-dimensional/galaxy super powers. Enter some inhumans, galactus, silver surfer, dr strange, reed richards, prof x, worlock, thanos, apocolypse, ect, ect and Sentry becomes a little more humble.

WR is typically pretty easy to subdue if you get ready for it out of the gates. Persoanlly, I think Supernova packs more punch.

Unknown

rednailz wrote:

CMAGS - all know the nerf is coming. IMO his red is actually kinda lame and weak, the only good thing about it is spamming it, especially if there's a pile of strike tiles out there (thanks patch). fix is simple, more AP needed for red and blue matches. I don't think it's unfair that you can place the blue protect tiles wherever you like. Look at stever rogers, although his yellow needs 19 AP (or so) you can place 3 of them with 1 cover. he IS the master of magnitism and one of the most formidible bad guys in teh entire marvel universe, cut the guy some slack. He should be a top teir guy.

His blue is being exploited, plain and simple. Allowing people to use shields offensively is actively allowing cheating.

rednailz

Phantron wrote:

Daken and Patch's healing runs counter to the true healing concept and it's strange they haven't been nerfed already. .

Um, they are actually true healing and an innate healing factor, which is why heals like OBW's and Spidey's were taken down to just heal for the match. They have a true healing factor that's in them, and is permanent. OBW is a human who they gave a heal to, and Spidey they just gave him a heal to compliment his stun and armor as a support "caster".

If anything, Daken, Wolvie, and Deadpool should be the only ones where the healing carries over, since it's true to the source, and not an added in power for MPQ alone.

rednailz

saints2death wrote:

His blue is being exploited, plain and simple. Allowing people to use shields offensively is actively allowing cheating.

It's not cheating, it's choosing offense over very strng deffensive tiles. Same thing if I place Steve Rogers' countdown for shield return in a way that I get a crit from it instead of the shield returning. Do you consider that cheating as well?

Unknown

rednailz wrote:

saints2death wrote:

His blue is being exploited, plain and simple. Allowing people to use shields offensively is actively allowing cheating.

It's not cheating, it's choosing offense over very strng deffensive tiles. Same thing if I place Steve Rogers' countdown for shield return in a way that I get a crit from it instead of the shield returning. Do you consider that cheating as well?

No, because the AP Cap limit of 30 and the high cost of the skill prevent that skill from being exploited to the degree CMags can be exploited. CMags Blue can allow someone kill all three of their opponent's characters without suffering damage by earning more blue than the initial skill cost, or making the skill essentially cost only 1 or 2 blues. Steve Roger's skills do not allow that.

rednailz

saints2death wrote:

rednailz wrote:

saints2death wrote:

No, because the AP Cap limit of 30 and the high cost of the skill prevent that skill from being exploited to the degree CMags can be exploited. CMags Blue can allow someone kill all three of their opponent's characters without suffering damage by earning more blue than the initial skill cost, or making the skill essentially cost only 1 or 2 blues. Steve Roger's skills do not allow that.

Faulty analogy on my end, fair enough. My point was the concept, not the cost. Concept is the same, I can place tiles where I want and choose offense over deffence or AP return.

So your arguemnt goes back to that it doesn't cost enough AP to use CMAGS' blue, not that it's an exploit.

I agree CMAGs' red and blue don't cost enough. That wasn't my point. Shouldn't we be nerfing MMAGS then as well? So people can't just pair him with storm and wind storm thier way through the game? Or is that excepmt since AI can't use it properly?

Unknown

I swear this game has been imbalanced for so long people start thinking some extremely bizarre behaviors in this game is normal. In any game that's considered remotely balanced, there's an inverse relationship between durability and ability to do damage. Thor has the second highest HP in the game (only Hulk is better). If he did even as much damage as a standard class HP guy (like Punisher) he'd still be strictly better than Punisher by having more HP. We're not talking about some nebulous concept like someone always have to have the best combination of HP + damage + synergy. He flat out leads in pretty much all 3 categories. He's #2 in HP, his damage easily beats pretty much anyone not in the 'big 5' list, and Thunder Strike has incredible combo potential (right now he combos with himself because he's overpowered, but can easily combo with any other green users who are dime a dozen).

In fact not counting Patch, who I don't think is overpowered, the other 4 characters all lead in 3 out of those 3 categories compare to the vast majority of MPQ except Magneto. Sentry is also #2 in HP, way up there in damage by himself, and has crazy combo potential. Daken's HP is arguably higher than Thor or Sentry due to his regen, his combo/damage are also top notch. Magneto is the only person who doesn't lead in HP, but he makes that up for being absolutely insane in combo/damage. We're not talking about how there's some guy who is #5 in HP, #2 in damage and #8 in combo and he might be the most powerful character in the game compared to everyone else. We're talking about a bunch of guys who are like #2/#2/#2 across the 3 categories of character power and that can't be remotely balanced.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I swear this game has been imbalanced for so long people start thinking some extremely bizarre behaviors in this game is normal. In any game that's considered remotely balanced, there's an inverse relationship between durability and ability to do damage. Thor has the second highest HP in the game (only Hulk is better). If he did even as much damage as a standard class HP guy (like Punisher) he'd still be strictly better than Punisher by having more HP. We're not talking about some nebulous concept like someone always have to have the best combination of HP + damage + synergy. He flat out leads in pretty much all 3 categories. He's #2 in HP, his damage easily beats pretty much anyone not in the 'big 5' list, and Thunder Strike has incredible combo potential (right now he combos with himself because he's overpowered, but can easily combo with any other green users who are dime a dozen).

In fact not counting Patch, who I don't think is overpowered, the other 4 characters all lead in 3 out of those 3 categories compare to the vast majority of MPQ except Magneto. Sentry is also #2 in HP, way up there in damage by himself, and has crazy combo potential. Daken's HP is arguably higher than Thor or Sentry due to his regen, his combo/damage are also top notch. Magneto is the only person who doesn't lead in HP, but he makes that up for being absolutely insane in combo/damage. We're not talking about how there's some guy who is #5 in HP, #2 in damage and #8 in combo and he might be the most powerful character in the game compared to everyone else. We're talking about a bunch of guys who are like #2/#2/#2 across the 3 categories of character power and that can't be remotely balanced.

And like I said earlier, it's not just that they lead in those categories, it's that it's not even close. Let's say the "tier 2" characters are Punisher, Hood, GSBW, Black Panther, Hulk. Except for MAYBE Panther, I would almost always rather have any level 166 "Big 5" on my team than any level 249 "tier 2." The difference is that stark.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

And like I said earlier, it's not just that they lead in those categories, it's that it's not even close. Let's say the "tier 2" characters are Punisher, Hood, GSBW, Black Panther, Hulk. Except for MAYBE Panther, I would almost always rather have any level 166 "Big 5" on my team than any level 249 "tier 2." The difference is that stark.

Yeah, most of the tier 2 guys would need to do double damage to come close to the damage ability of someone like Thor, and they'd still have less HP than he has and not combo as well either.

Hood is an interesting character because if you map out the three categories it'd be:

HP - last
Damage - near bottom (Dormammu's Aid has a negligible increase on his own damage due to his extremely weak offensive moves)
Combo - arguably #1, but certainly top tier

Now is The Hood overpowered or not? We don't really know. If the big 5 are weaker, it's possible that he is the most powerful in the game because his combo power is pretty much off the chart even though he's on the bottom of the list for the other two categories. But he will always have his weakness. You know he always has the least amount of HP and he always needs someone else to do the damage. Maybe he'd still be overpowered but it's not like he's unconditionally better than everyone else. The Big 5 are pretty much unconditionally better in every category of the game. You can't balance that unless you make everyone else as strong as they are in those categories and that'd just lead to games often ending by turn 3.

Unknown

It's difficult to know exactly which option is better, personally I really don't agree with nerfing unless a character is really broken(such as pre nerf rags and Spidey). But nerfing the big 5 seems bad, it means matches will take longer which I would have thought would put people off shield hopping, which I imagine is what most people spend their HP and inturn money on.
Buffing the weaker guys seems much better overall, and more profitable, it will encourage spending on more characters, events etc... And give the game more variation.

Of course all that being said, nothing will happen except we might get a new loading screen or a 'brand new' lazy character! (Lazy Ares I can definitely imagine soon)I never expect much more than that anymore.

Unknown

IMO, Only sentry needs to be nerfed ASAP, he's too OP.
Instead of 7, make it 10 or even 12 for world rupture.

sentry/laken, sentry/hood..this is the only team i've found in pvp lately. Eventho i use em alot, it makes pvp kinda boring.
Also, this duo makes other char useless in pvp, esp new chars.. what's the point of building she-hulk, capt.marvel, deadpool,etc.. sentry/(laken/hood) can wipe any team,even max nick!

Btw, leave the rest 4 alone, coz :
- Laken can be counter w hulk.
- L.Thor combo needs quite a time to build.
- Patchneto kinda weak in def.

ps: pardon my english, not my spoken lang.