Team-Up Feedback and Changes

orionpeace

Demiurge_Will wrote:

The theory there was that Team-Ups are much more interesting and flavorful to play with than boosts, and boosts feel "cheaty" to many players.

Who exactly came up with that theory? Did that same person or group of people actually play the game for an extended period with a stock of TUs that are mostly useless?

Cause I'm staring at a collection of Level 2 IM Repulsor Blasts, Lethal Recons, Trickery and Murderous Aim.

There is nothing interesting or flavorful in that. They are a nuisance and obstacle to getting something I could actually use.

And by forcing useless TUs on us, you put the lie to Prologue Healing being un-fun as a reason to remove it. Guess what we are doing to get rid of bad TUs? But you knew that was what we would do. And yet, here they are. With no delete button.

I can appreciate that you wanted to roll out new content and features sooner rather than later. But why wasn't "delete" an integral part of the design from the beginning rather than an after thought. If you read what IceIX said when TUs rolled out, it is clear that he thought that if you have a full larder of TUs you are playing them wrong. Obviously, he didn't play a complete event full of Bullseye and Yelena to test it or he would have known how ludicrous that statement was.

Realstuff_NameChange

Demiurge_Will wrote:

dragma wrote:

I am seeing one item that may have been overlooked:

Normal boosts are currently either dropping at a highly reduced rate or not at all. Is this going to be resolved?

Team-Up drops replaced boost drops.

The theory there was that Team-Ups are much more interesting and flavorful to play with than boosts, and boosts feel "cheaty" to many players. We know some folks find boosts strategically interesting, or have built teams around them, so we don't want to retire them entirely if we can avoid it. Plus, boosts are a good way to add a little bit of variety to loot tables.

What would be great to know now is: is the disappointment here mostly about the fact that this was dropped from the patch notes on Team-Ups, or would most of you rather be getting occasional boost drops in place of Team-Ups? (Not 1-for-1: several Team-Up drops are equivalent to one boost drop.)

I'd prefer having boost drops back. I don't really care for the teamups at all, but at the very least a mix would be appreciated.

Disappointment for me stems from both lack of communication and removal of the boosts, but the removal of the boosts is a much bigger issue than the not mentioning the removal.

I'm also not sure about boosts feeling cheaty, since I've gone into tough fights with 3 boosts to try and gain some advantage and still lost plenty of times, and its one of the only ways to gain some slight advantage when trying to punch outside your weight class, but it seems to me if the worry is about seeming "cheaty" than making it so all the boosts cost ISO instead of HP or removing the HP bought boosts entirely would go a lot further towards making things more even and less "cheaty" than removing boost drops for those of us who don't want to spend hundreds a month on the game while it barely affects the people who just buy the most powerful boosts constantly with cash

TazFTW

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

Will, a bit off topic, but if there is an update coming up, will it also finally add some of the new people to tokens?

That can happen at any time and doesn't need an app update.

We've been slow on this lately because we've been talking about what to do with the increasing number of characters. Some of us think that the number of characters available at any one time can't get too much larger, or the time to get to the power cap for a particular character gets to be too long, and others don't like the idea of an existing character being "out of rotation" for a while, unavailable in most packs. We all know that we've got to keep making new characters, because there are long lists of people's favorites that aren't in the game yet! If you've got opinions and want to PM them my way, that would be great.

Now I figured you probably don't want to do a split right down the middle as you would want all the 1* and 2* available at all times, so I guess a solution would be to have a Season Heroic token (maybe even a Season Standard token). You plan ahead on what (12?) PVP events you're going to have for a season and only those 3*s will be available in the Season tokens for the duration of the season. Odds of pulling a 3* stay the same but the odds of pulling a particular 3* increase. The next season would have a different set of 12. I'm thinking newly released characters should at least be available for 2 full seasons. For instance someone like Deadpool, who was released in the middle of Season 4 would be available in Season 4, 5, & 6 tokens.

Unknown

I've got a few questions I haven't seen answered yet:

1) The AI only using one Team-Up - does that mean PVE, PVP, or both? Doesn't that give an advantage to attackers, since they can select three? Or is this not seen as an issue because it was also true with Boosts?

2) Are defensive Team-Ups chosen from the player's own stash, or randomly from all available Team-Ups? I think it'd be great to pull from the Team-Ups the player has, though this could lead to hoarding the best Team-Ups purely for defense.

---

I prefer Boost drops, because I actually used them. I've used MAYBE 10 Team-Ups since they launched because I generally don't get the AP to use them.

lokiagentofhotness

i'm really happy about the ability to delete team-ups, because i've been finding them super-stressful. i have 20 team ups and every time i don't use one in-game i get that sad little "you would have gotten a team up but your inventory is full, clearly you suck" message. it really makes me try my best to use the team ups in the game even when i don't need them and would have won anyway.

it's just super stressful and honestly i do miss environment tiles, and i never thought i'd ever say that.

Unknown

mechatoast wrote:

1) The AI only using one Team-Up - does that mean PVE, PVP, or both? Doesn't that give an advantage to attackers, since they can select three? Or is this not seen as an issue because it was also true with Boosts?

Not an issue because attackers will be selecting none all of the time.

GuntherBlobel

gobstopper wrote:

mechatoast wrote:

1) The AI only using one Team-Up - does that mean PVE, PVP, or both? Doesn't that give an advantage to attackers, since they can select three? Or is this not seen as an issue because it was also true with Boosts?

Not an issue because attackers will be selecting none all of the time.

True, but I think the non-snarky answer is that it is not an issue because most people use 1 or less TUs per round. If you are a TU master however, then sure, it could be an advantage.

Some of these changes are specifically aimed at handicapping the AI again. That's what people want and I think Demiurge is making a nice compromise here by listening to diverse user feedback. I don't necessarily like all the changes, but I'm very pleased with this approach.

Jakecin4791

"- Taking another pass on which abilities can be used by the AI in Team-Ups. The AI should no longer use Sentry or Juggernaut."

I can't wait. Anyone else just happen to have been hit with World Rupture or Supernova every single match of the Hulk event?
And at least twice I've been hit with World Rupture twice in one match. Fun!

Currently it seems these are the default TU for every team you fight.
And if TUs are truly supposed to add more variability to the game...

Zen808

Jakecin4791 wrote:

And at least twice I've been hit with World Rupture twice in one match. Fun!

Currently it seems these are the default TU for every team you fight.
And if TUs are truly supposed to add more variability to the game...

I'll do you one better and say I pulled a team that dropped 3 World Ruptures on me.

It has to do with the fact that for a lot of these PVE events, you're fighting Dark Avengers teams, and so (I think) they only pull TU's from Dark Avengers characters. Of which, there's only Ares, Bullseye, Daken, Moonstone, Sentry, and Venom. Daken has no TU's to pull, Bullseye has only one. The AI isn't supposed to pull from the three guys already on the team.

So, yeah, the worst possible team to face is Ares, Moonstone, Venom.

Spoit

Jugg TUs weren't actually that bad, since it didn't have headbutt. Unstable crash is just a slightly more likely to cascade godlike power

Puritas

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Can the developers sticky this thread? It's got commentary from two different developers.

hahahahahhahaahhaha
just pm me next time

btw do you like my sig nonce

Unknown

Puritas wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Can the developers sticky this thread? It's got commentary from two different developers.

hahahahahhahaahhaha
just pm me next time

btw do you like my sig nonce

It's not "also money," but I like out just as much or more.

I think eventually ( if they keep moderators), you'll probably just have a second account for moderating separate from your normal one.

Unknown

It might be a little late for suggestions but can you make it so that the user also sets up an "on patrol" team up team

I_am_Zero

Why are people saying to split up the covers into different types of tokens? Now you've made it X times harder to get the cover you want since now you have to try to get a specific type of hero token. If they have to keep adding new characters, then just take the percentages from the 2 star characters and call it a day. We are already getting a higher chance of acquiring 2 star covers by fighting, so lower the chance of getting a 2 star and shift it to getting the new 3 star cover. Taking just .1% from each 2 star hero with 3 abilities gives you 1% to give to a new cover. If you want to keep it at .7% like the rest of the 3 star covers, then give it to the 3 star heroes with 2 abilities. And if they want to add a new 2 star hero, then make all the 2 star heroes worth 6.1% instead of 7.2%. As much as I hate seeing a bag-man cover from a heroic token, I'd much rather see that than forced rotations or retired covers.

As for team ups being able to be deleted soon, good. I'm tired of seeing wolverine in my team up list and not being able to use him since he's my only max 3 star and i use him for basically everything.

Spoit

No, what people are suggesting is splitting the pool, with heroic tokens working for Either

Pylgrim

I am Zero wrote:

Why are people saying to split up the covers into different types of tokens? Now you've made it X times harder to get the cover you want since now you have to try to get a specific type of hero token. If they have to keep adding new characters, then just take the percentages from the 2 star characters and call it a day. We are already getting a higher chance of acquiring 2 star covers by fighting, so lower the chance of getting a 2 star and shift it to getting the new 3 star cover. Taking just .1% from each 2 star hero with 3 abilities gives you 1% to give to a new cover. If you want to keep it at .7% like the rest of the 3 star covers, then give it to the 3 star heroes with 2 abilities. And if they want to add a new 2 star hero, then make all the 2 star heroes worth 6.1% instead of 7.2%. As much as I hate seeing a bag-man cover from a heroic token, I'd much rather see that than forced rotations or retired covers.

As for team ups being able to be deleted soon, good. I'm tired of seeing wolverine in my team up list and not being able to use him since he's my only max 3 star and i use him for basically everything.

Everyone who has suggested the different categories of tokens have also suggested that you get to pick which.

Unknown

On-patrol an excellent idea - dropping unwanted TU tokens very helpful.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Taking another pass on which abilities can be used by the AI in Team-Ups. The AI should no longer use Sentry or Juggernaut.

Oh, kind of like the way the AI was never able to use Redwing, Healing & Heat, or any of the other Passives that we've been collecting since Day 1?

I'm sorry to be so negative all of a sudden, but TUs have absolutely ruined this game for me. It's a broken mechanic with bugs in nearly every aspect of its code. The only thing keeping me here is that I'm too busy at work to be playing much anyway right now.

MaxCavalera

Realcrap wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

dragma wrote:

I am seeing one item that may have been overlooked:

Normal boosts are currently either dropping at a highly reduced rate or not at all. Is this going to be resolved?

Team-Up drops replaced boost drops.

The theory there was that Team-Ups are much more interesting and flavorful to play with than boosts, and boosts feel "cheaty" to many players. We know some folks find boosts strategically interesting, or have built teams around them, so we don't want to retire them entirely if we can avoid it. Plus, boosts are a good way to add a little bit of variety to loot tables.

What would be great to know now is: is the disappointment here mostly about the fact that this was dropped from the patch notes on Team-Ups, or would most of you rather be getting occasional boost drops in place of Team-Ups? (Not 1-for-1: several Team-Up drops are equivalent to one boost drop.)

I'd prefer having boost drops back. I don't really care for the teamups at all, but at the very least a mix would be appreciated.

Disappointment for me stems from both lack of communication and removal of the boosts, but the removal of the boosts is a much bigger issue than the not mentioning the removal.

I'm also not sure about boosts feeling cheaty, since I've gone into tough fights with 3 boosts to try and gain some advantage and still lost plenty of times, and its one of the only ways to gain some slight advantage when trying to punch outside your weight class, but it seems to me if the worry is about seeming "cheaty" than making it so all the boosts cost ISO instead of HP or removing the HP bought boosts entirely would go a lot further towards making things more even and less "cheaty" than removing boost drops for those of us who don't want to spend hundreds a month on the game while it barely affects the people who just buy the most powerful boosts constantly with cash

I would definitely be in favor of keeping the boost drop rate the same which wasn't that high anyway, I don't buy them that often so its nice to have a few ones lying around for tough battles but if you need them all the time your probably punching out side your weight class anyway etc. etc. If you set it so you didn't get a team-up when ever you would normally get a boost at the previous rate that would work and you wouldn't be double dipping so to speak.

Also most importantly please add to the patch that TU don't have to be reselected. Having a AR always ready to go in case you know bad times would be a good wrinkle to have in this system. Right now i would only use a TU maybe 1 in ten battles if that and when i need it I was too lazy to equip it.

turul

Just to let my voice heard:

I am against removal of Sentry teamups and also limiting enemy teamups to 1.
Dont handicap the AI/ our defensive team.