Team-Up Feedback and Changes

Unknown

They needed a worldwide release and dozens of threads to find out the delete function would be convenient ?

Unknown

They needed a worldwide release and dozens of threads to find out the delete function would be convenient ?

It strikes me that the mistake that could have been made there is not enough iterated play on the same account, which is what you need to actually observe the effect of silting-up-with-bad-teamups effect.

squirrel1120

Its just kinda obvious that whoever play tested it didn't have to sit through their first uses with the system during a pve *filled* with low level Yelena, bullseye and moonstone, clogging up the interface quickly. Nor pretty much any lightning round play against loaner characters like hood. In matches with equal footing, I'm sure the game-play looked quite normal, and thus IceX's comment early on about 'you aren't managing resources correctly then'. If they though 'enough testing' had been done, I don't see how it could have been under real game-play circumstances, otherwise most of these things would have been caught.

Either that, or they were caught, and rolled out anyway due to coding already being in the patch, knowing they'd have to push the fixes in the next one along, as even really important things are rarely hotfixed.

As I said elsewhere, no matter what the reason, its shameful that the 'feature' was released as is. However, I am glad that for the most part its being fixed. Except alliances, which become more abusable. A player is already far behind the curve if they've chosen the path of a small friend alliance, and this is another change that makes it that much worse.

Phillipes

Arktos is absolutely right in this one. Even if they didnt notice that delete button is required, they should implement in maybe next day.
Meanwhile (today) I was hammered by Hulk in PVE - I was denying him green and red and suddenly - BANG - supernova !! One character remaining wih 100 health.
Team-ups in this version were like experiment -how much can we as players still manage before ragequit.

Nonce Equitaur 2

IceIX wrote:

Thanks for your feedback about Team-Ups! We've heard your comments and frustrations. We believe that Team-Ups add an exciting new element of strategy and new ways for abilities to work together, and will continue to see that vision through. We realize we have a ways to go, and in the mean time, we're going to make some changes to reduce the randomness that Team-Ups can add to the game. The changes will be rolled out over the next few releases.

For an initial start, and upcoming soon:

- Adding the ability to delete Team-Ups - Reducing the number of Team-Ups that can be used by the AI from 3 to 1 - Making it so AP theft and destruction abilities (like Black Widow's Aggressive Recon) will also steal Team-Up AP. - Taking another pass on which abilities can be used by the AI in Team-Ups. The AI should no longer use Sentry or Juggernaut. - Fixing a bug that allowed AI teams to Team-Up with a character on their team.

Wowsers... it's almost like they read the Team-up Change Poll and picked out the the most popular items.

After clearing away many Murderous Aim TUs, I wasn't able to bring myself to attack Bullseye or Yelena any more. These changes will be a great improvement.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Thanks for your feedback about Team-Ups! We've heard your comments and frustrations. We believe that Team-Ups add an exciting new element of strategy and new ways for abilities to work together, and will continue to see that vision through. We realize we have a ways to go, and in the mean time, we're going to make some changes to reduce the randomness that Team-Ups can add to the game. The changes will be rolled out over the next few releases.

For an initial start, and upcoming soon:

- Adding the ability to delete Team-Ups - Reducing the number of Team-Ups that can be used by the AI from 3 to 1 - Making it so AP theft and destruction abilities (like Black Widow's Aggressive Recon) will also steal Team-Up AP. - Taking another pass on which abilities can be used by the AI in Team-Ups. The AI should no longer use Sentry or Juggernaut. - Fixing a bug that allowed AI teams to Team-Up with a character on their team.

I am seeing one item that may have been overlooked:

Normal boosts are currently either dropping at a highly reduced rate or not at all. Is this going to be resolved?

One other:
TU tiles durring cascades return less then the matched amount, unlike normal colors. this can be seen most readly where you end up matching 2 sets of colors at once (one green and 1 TU) the team up match would only return 2.

Thanos

I was really hoping they'd say "we realized our mistake" and just remove TU's altogether. I'm still not wasting my time matching under powered TU tiles when i could just match tiles worth twice the damage and use my best abilities instead.

TheHueyFreeman

ICE, can you confirm whether Hood will receive that ability as well?

OnesOwnGrief

What I'd give for a 69+ Murderous Aim Team Up though...

Dayv

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

After clearing away many Murderous Aim TUs, I wasn't able to bring myself to attack Bullseye or Yelena any more. These changes will be a great improvement.

I just make sure to have full TU slots and don't bring any with me before I do those battles... which is probably not exactly the play behavior the devs were looking for, but they should have anticipated it.

Dayv

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

What I'd give for a 69+ Murderous Aim Team Up though...

How about nothing? That's what I'd give for it.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

For an initial start, and upcoming soon:

- Fixing a bug that allowed AI teams to Team-Up with a character on their team.

What about preventing the enemy from teaming up with a character on MY team? The enemy should not get to cast Berserker Rage against my Wolverine.

I cannot select an Onslaught as a Teamup when I fight against Ares. The AI should not be able to select Chemical Reaction when they fight my Daken. The rules should work the same way for the AI as they do for the player.

OnesOwnGrief

DayvBang wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

What I'd give for a 69+ Murderous Aim Team Up though...

How about nothing? That's what I'd give for it.

Murderous Aim is actually one of my favorite skills in the game when paired with skills that can make match 5s easily. My only complaint is that there isn't a 3* variant of it.

Dreylin

Ghast wrote:

IceIX wrote:

For an initial start, and upcoming soon:

- Fixing a bug that allowed AI teams to Team-Up with a character on their team.

What about preventing the enemy from teaming up with a character on MY team? The enemy should not get to cast Berserker Rage against my Wolverine.

I cannot select an Onslaught as a Teamup when I fight against Ares. The AI should not be able to select Chemical Reaction when they fight my Daken. The rules should work the same way for the AI as they do for the player.

Actually, I believe that this is true only in PvE; in PvP the "Danger Room Technology" allows you to use opposing Team-Ups in the same way you can fight with a character that is on the opposing team.

Unknown

In the future the devs rely need to be more careful with moves that only exist because of balancing against other character specific properties like low hit points, low level cap, having two other very weak abilities etc such as juggernauts head butt when adding them in as possible team ups. Same for moves that are synergistic within a char but not otherwise, chemical reaction is pretty borderline. I'm taking the no sentry clause as an acknowledgment from D3 that sentry is an OP health pack guzzler on defense though.

Unknown

Mostly good changes... I kind of liked the mechanic where teamup AP couldn't be stolen though, it kind of balanced the power of stealing abilities a little

I'll have to see how the "one TU for opponents" thing works out, but it seems to disadvantage the already disadvantaged AI too much and add a lot of luck to the battle (not that TUs didnt already do this, but to a lesser extent) - I would have preferred TUs being assigned to characters so you can stun/kill them to prevent them using a TU ability

IamTheDanger

I think they may have missed the need for a delete button, as well as leaving selected TUs in place, because the point of testing them was to get a TU, then use it, and then repeat, repeat, repeat,... so on and so on. But in actual game play, yes, a delete option will be great.

However, I don't care for the idea of timers or expiration. I got a few VERY HIGH level Hulk smash and Thunderous Clap. As in 3 and 400 level range. Add those to my Devil Dino and Fury TUs, I am sitting pretty. I dont want to save them for when I really need them, just so I can turn around and have to waste it on a low level match I can win with my 2* heros just because it will expire in an hour if I don't.

And as to Hood stealing TUs, I say mother kitty yeah man. Hood is one of my favorites, and I use him often. Him stealing TUs as well, means I can use the more high priced ones. It does not mean, however, that I'll be using my "good" TUs. I plan to hold those for while yet. They are so precious to me. Soooo precious. .... precious, my precious TUs. all mine. my prec,. .... uh, maybe I had better shut up now.

M C K

The delete button removes the necessity for removing "passive" skills (e.g. Healing and Heat, Redwing, etc.) which currently don't do anything. Ice, is there a plan to either make them functional somehow or remove them entirely as TU skills?

mohio

M C K wrote:

The delete button removes the necessity for removing "passive" skills (e.g. Healing and Heat, Redwing, etc.) which currently don't do anything. Ice, is there a plan to either make them functional somehow or remove them entirely as TU skills?

This isn't true cause if they're available then that means the AI could have them which, while being nice for the player, is not really a good thing to have happen.

Unknown

I guess that I am in the minority. I am deeply disappointed the extent that TUP's have been nerfed. The reason itself has not to do with just TUP's but with has become the empirical trend of making changes to the game.

Any time there is any kind of "nerf" it is always from one extreme to another. If a character like Rags or Spidey are overpowered, they go to being underpowered (or useless in the opions of some, not me, I think Spidey is still useful). It is never a slight change or tweak. There was a sign of the philosophy spreading to "true healing", but that could just have been due to it was a major change to the structure and strategy of the gameplay. However, the same philosophy has just been extended to TUP's. This itself has created three problems.

1. TUP's had made defenses more viable (although not viable). TUP's went from being a real hassle with AI having them to you can almost completely ignore them now. So, it's back to pretty much back to no defense at all.

2. Storm's Yellow ability's AP cost was raised to 9. This made sense (especially for defense) due to the difference in TUP's and environmental tiles. Now, she has been significantly nerfed on the defensive front.

3. People complained that they were being hit frequently by powerful DA TUP's. While this is the most legitimate complaint about TUP's, why would you remove Sentry and Juggs altogether? I hate getting smacked with these as much as the next person, but this severely limits the DA's (especially in PVE's) and seems to corrupt the spirit of the game. The heroes can have their mightiest allies assist, but the DA's are just SOL.

I hope that it will be reconsidered giving back the AI 3 TUP's and opening any TUP available to players to the AI. I'm sorry, but the argument that I do not want to lose life points is not a sufficient crux of an argument by players to not want the AI to have strong TUP's or even any TUP's. The whole purpose of a match is to win by reducing the opponent's life points to zero. It defeats the entire purpose of the game to make a change on the basis of players not wanting to lose life points. Clearly, the underlying issue has to do with roster depth, healing, and health packs. While, I am sympathetic to this issue, it should not undermine other features of the game.

P.S. Although contrary to what it seems I may have written, I am actually over the moon that developers are listening to player feedback. I am simply advocating not making drastic changes (nerfs or buffs). You can always nerf or buff again instead of going from one extreme to another.

P.S.S. Please do not over-nerf C Mags.