*** Beast (Classic) ***

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  • IReallyHatePVP
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    Rotated out after Season IX.

    Here's to hoping Hank comes back with a "X-Fixed" level re-do.

    (my suggestion? Simple!

    blueflag.png Select the convered tile.
    greenflag.png Up damage 10%, destroyed tiles generate AP.
    yellowflag.png Countdown tile triggers True Healing. (Heh, if D3 does this, even at a 50% reduction, so many people will switch their vote to X blueflag.png X greenflag.png 5 yellowflag.png , it won't even be funny icon_mrgreen.gificon_lol.gificon_cool.gif . And its Doctor McCoy, its not like it doesn't make sense... icon_e_surprised.gificon_idea.gificon_e_geek.gif )
    )
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Rotated out after Season IX.

    Here's to hoping Hank comes back with a "X-Fixed" level re-do.

    (my suggestion? Simple!

    blueflag.png Select the convered tile.
    greenflag.png Up damage 10%, destroyed tiles generate AP.
    yellowflag.png Countdown tile triggers True Healing. (Heh, if D3 does this, even at a 50% reduction, so many people will switch their vote to X blueflag.png X greenflag.png 5 yellowflag.png , it won't even be funny icon_mrgreen.gificon_lol.gificon_cool.gif . And its Doctor McCoy, its not like it doesn't make sense... icon_e_surprised.gificon_idea.gificon_e_geek.gif )
    )

    Even if you place the tile, due to the nature of the skill most of it could be matched away in one turn. Plus being only 1 CD doesn't need the placement requirement. What needs to happen is the skill turns 4 random basic tiles into blue special tiles.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2015
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    Did some brainstorming and came up with

    3 Star Rarity (Rare) Wiki link.
    At Max Level: HP: 6800 Tile damage: 70/13/79/12/61/11
      Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Blue AP
      Hank has big plans for a genetic experiment that might lead to unpredictable results. Creates a 3 turn Blue Countdown tile that, when activated, converts a random black tile into a protect tile, a random purple tile into a strike tile, and a random red tile into an attack tile with strength 22. (*tiles stay there color, they do not turn blue)
        Level 2: Creates special tiles of strength 28 Level 3: Reduces to 2 turn countdown Level 4: Creates special tiles of strength 33 Level 5: Reduces to 1 turn countdown
      Max Level: 3 strength 105 special tiles
        Animal Inside - Green 9 AP
        Jumping and slashing as he moves through enemies, Hank can barely control his animal side. Deals 137 damage to all enemies. If there's a friendly Blue special tile on the board, Beast smashes up his lab destroying 3 random tiles, each dealing 33 to all enemies but not generating AP.
          Level 2: 164 damage to all enemies Level 3: Destroys 6 random tiles Level 4: 219 damage to all enemies Level 5: Destroys 12 random tiles
        Max Level: 696 damage / 12 tiles destroyed at 104 damage each
          Medical Marvel - Yellow 14 AP
          Dr. McCoy uses his medical triage skills to patch up the team before they rush back into battle. Gives a true heal of 274 health to allies. If there's a friendly special tile on the board, he provides a gadget to aid them. 1 Yellow tile becomes a strength 16 Protect tile.
            Level 2: Heals for 356 health to allies. Level 3: Increases to 2 Protect tiles. Level 4: Has the ability to raise downed allies. Level 5: Heals for 493 health to allies and increases to 3 strength 21 Protect tiles.
          Max Level: 1564 healing / 3 strength 69 Protect tiles

          or
            Medical Marvel - Yellow 9 AP
            Dr. McCoy uses his medical triage skills to patch up the team before they rush back into battle. Gives a true heal of up to 15% of an ally's missing life (based on Beast's level) to the entire team. If there's a friendly special tile on the board, he provides a gadget to aid them. 1 Yellow tile becomes a strength 12 Protect tile.
              Level 2: Heals for up to 20% of missing life to allies. Level 3: Increases to 2 Protect tiles. Level 4: Heals for up to 25% of missing life to allies. Level 5: Heals for up to 35% of missing life to allies and increases to 3 strength 15 Protect tiles.
            Max Level: 35% missing life / 3 strength 50 Protect tiles
            *The heal would be equivalent to (Beast's level / Ally's level) * Ally's maximum life * (15/20/25/35%) with the ratio capping out at 100%. A 1hp 4hor would be healed for 166/270 * 16440 * .35= 3537. 1 hp Lthor would be 166/166 * 10200 * .35 = 3570, nearly equivalent. When he's super boosted to 249 he's more effective at healing 4*. The ratio is capped at 1 so if Beast is a higher level he still doesn't heal for more than 35%.



            Blue becomes a lot more reliable and the special tiles are placed on not-Beast's colors. Currently you usually need to destroy your own special tiles to fuel another blue.

            Green is mostly unchanged except it triggers on any special tile since blue no longer creates blue tiles. A check could be put in place so that it only triggers off beast tiles (compares the tile strength to his level but Falcon's Inspiration would mess with it) but the bonus damage is so **** that I don't think it really matters.

            I raised yellow's cost to 14 because its a true heal and added the ability to raise the dead at 4 covers. At 14 AP and for such a low amount, I don't think prologue healing would be very effective but if people want to go for it, more power to them. The alternate version of yellow isn't a reliable true heal because its based on missing life. It is a nice outlet for extra yellow but I don't really see people spamming it in prologue.
          • Beast definitely appears very weak, at least on paper.

            Maybe a more important question is, is he fun to play? I know some will think "fun = winning", but I enjoy using unconventional teams sometimes.

            I'd like to hear if anyone has a fully covered Beast that they've seriously tried to use, and what the experience was like.
          • CrookedKnight
            CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
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            The problem with Beast is that both his green and yellow skills key off his blue, and his blue is immensely frustrating to use. when Animal Inside does its job right it's fun, but it's a pain to get into position to use it without losing his blue special tiles.
          • Beast definitely appears very weak, at least on paper.

            Maybe a more important question is, is he fun to play? I know some will think "fun = winning", but I enjoy using unconventional teams sometimes.

            I'd like to hear if anyone has a fully covered Beast that they've seriously tried to use, and what the experience was like.

            Daredevil, even back when he was considered one of the worst characters in the game, was immensely fun to play, because a successful Ambush was one of the most fun powers in the game. Back before Classic Mags was nerfed, it was actually fairly easy to set up so the AI would match, too, it made for a fun pairing, so I used those two a lot in PVE. Doc Ock is similar; his black power is actually fantastic, and in certain combination he can be a lot of fun to use (having 6 or 7 attack tiles doing 800 damage per turn is a lot of fun).

            Beast - and I have a 166 one - doesn't have any similar mechanic. His powers are difficult to use and not especially effective even when they work. The closest comparison is probably Moonstone, except without the potential for massive damage Moonstone occasionally pulls off. He's just frustrating and difficult. Even boosted, I find he's always the least usable person on my team, and after a while I just start ignoring his powers. He's really got nothing going for him, and it's a shame, since he's my favorite X-Man.
          • Ben Grimm wrote:
            He's really got nothing going for him, and it's a shame, since he's my favorite X-Man.

            That's a shame. On the bright side, an upcoming buff seems likely. I'm sure the devs have noticed how bad Beast's reception was, and since he's out of the token rotation this would be the time to work on him.
          • dkffiv
            dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
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            Beast definitely appears very weak, at least on paper.

            Maybe a more important question is, is he fun to play? I know some will think "fun = winning", but I enjoy using unconventional teams sometimes.

            I'd like to hear if anyone has a fully covered Beast that they've seriously tried to use, and what the experience was like.

            His blue backfires on itself a lot and is not reliable and his yellow is lackluster. His green is decent but its hard to justify bringing him just for green.

            I updated my recommended changes on the previous page with a new idea I had for yellow (and the blue change I suggested was to make it more reliable). Those little tweaks won't make him top tier but would make him more fun to play in PvE.
          • NorthernPolarity
            NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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            dkffiv wrote:
            Beast definitely appears very weak, at least on paper.

            Maybe a more important question is, is he fun to play? I know some will think "fun = winning", but I enjoy using unconventional teams sometimes.

            I'd like to hear if anyone has a fully covered Beast that they've seriously tried to use, and what the experience was like.

            His blue backfires on itself a lot and is not reliable and his yellow is lackluster. His green is decent but its hard to justify bringing him just for green.

            I updated my recommended changes on the previous page with a new idea I had for yellow (and the blue change I suggested was to make it more reliable). Those little tweaks won't make him top tier but would make him more fun to play in PvE.

            I would rework yellow to not be true healing. The devs do not want to reintroduce a teamwide true healing skill to the game, since that would just lead to prologue healing all over again.
          • KrazyKeylime
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            to make Beast better tweak his blueflag.png 8 to 6 to 1 of each instead of random(strike, defense, attack) and up the strength + 50% and only make his stupid animation go off when it pops off not when placed

            greenflag.png change to color to 10 blackflag.png make AOE stronger and side effect of enemy team loses 2 AP in 3 strongest ap colors( enemy team s**t a brick)
            yellowflag.png get rid of yellow protect tile sub effect, instead make it destroy random enemy special tile( up to 3) including countdown tiles gain 1 yellow ap per tile destroyed and at lvl5 make his heal true healing cause if any one could figure it out it would be beast.
            would you use him now?
          • bump cuss dpd
          • Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Blue AP
            Level 3: Creates a 3 turn Blue Countdown tile that, when activated, converts 6 random basic tiles into random special tiles (attack, protect or strike tiles) with strength 122
            Level 4: Reduces to 2 turn countdown
            Level 5: converts 10 random basic tiles, costs 2 AP more

            Animal Inside - 9 Green AP
            Level 3: Deals 1733 damage to to the target plus 96 damage to other enemies for every friendly special tile on the board
            Level 4: Deals 2633 damage
            Level 5: 156 damage for every friendly special tile on the board

            Medical Marvel - Yellow 11 AP
            Level 3: Gives a burst of 1044 health to allies and creates Yellow Countdown tile that activates every turn, healing weakest ally for 422 health
            Level 4: Gives a burst of 1564 health to allies.
            Level 5: creates 2 Yellow Countdown tiles, healing for 255 health
          • ronin_san
            ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
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            He's getting reworked. It was mentioned a couple times about a month and a half ago. I'm afraid it means he won't be re-released until the summer.

            But a Groot level Blue (be done with the attack tiles) and maybe a Punisher-grade green, eg cheaper or adds a countdown timer that makes the blue AND yellow better).....Suddenly he's not that bad. If Beast got a re-popping timer tile ala Punisher's molotov, then it'd be easier for him to heal for greater amounts.

            If we're not going to bump him in terms of damage, then I think each ability needs to be 2AP cheaper. He'd be awesome, then.

            The 6800 hps class characters get played because they do mega damage, true heal, or get free stuff. He has none of that. That needs revisited.
          • Phaserhawk
            Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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            ronin-san wrote:
            He's getting reworked. It was mentioned a couple times about a month and a half ago. I'm afraid it means he won't be re-released until the summer.

            But a Groot level Blue (be done with the attack tiles) and maybe a Punisher-grade green, eg cheaper or adds a countdown timer that makes the blue AND yellow better).....Suddenly he's not that bad. If Beast got a re-popping timer tile ala Punisher's molotov, then it'd be easier for him to heal for greater amounts.

            If we're not going to bump him in terms of damage, then I think each ability needs to be 2AP cheaper. He'd be awesome, then.

            The 6800 hps class characters get played because they do mega damage, true heal, or get free stuff. He has none of that. That needs revisited.

            His blue is easily fixable, as one said, it just needs to function like Grocket's blue, to where when the tile resolves, it goes to random blue tiles not tiles next to it.

            Green just needs a damage boost

            Yellow is the one skill that needs a complete rework as Healing sucks. But had they had his blue like Grocket's from the get go he wouldn't of even needed the rework, he just would have been a solid mid-tier character.
          • awarnica
            awarnica Posts: 44 Just Dropped In
            edited July 2015
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            Hey All

            Miles from Demiurge here to let you know about some new character updates that are coming soon to Marvel Puzzle Quest.

            Beast (Classic) - Coming 4/17/15
            We think we captured the essence of Beast as a character, but he wasn’t very useful, and players didn’t feel there was a strong reason to bring him to a fight over other characters. Considering that the bulk of Beast’s power banks on the presence of Blue special tiles, we made his Blue more reliable. The original design made it too easy to match away the special tiles it created, but this re-design solves that problem. We also increased the strength of his other two powers.

            Old Max Health: 6,800
            New Max Health: 8,670

            bluetile.pngMutagenic Breakthrough - Cost: 8 Blue AP - OLD
            Hank’s genetic experiments can have unpredictable results. Creates a 3-turn Blue Countdown tile that converts 4 surrounding basic tiles into strength 22 Blue Strike, Protect or Attack tiles.
            Upgrades:
              2. Creates strength 28 Special tiles. 3. Creates a 2-turn Countdown tile. 4. Creates strength 33 Special tiles. 5. Creates a 1-turn Countdown tile. MAX LV 5: Creates strength 105 Special tiles.

            bluetile.pngMutagenic Breakthrough - Cost: 6 Blue AP - NEW
            Hank’s genetic experiments can have unpredictable results. Creates a 3-turn Blue Countdown tile that converts 2 random Blue basic tiles into strength 44 Strike, Protect or Attack tiles.
            Upgrades:
              2. Creates a 2-turn Countdown tile. 3. Creates strength 51 Special tiles. 4. Creates a 1-turn Countdown tile and strength 55 Special tiles. 5. Creates 3 Special tiles. MAX LV 5: Creates 3 Special tiles of strength 174.

            greentile.pngAnimal Inside - Cost: 9 Green AP - OLD
            Jumping and slashing as he moves through enemies, Hank can barely control his animal side. Deals 137 to all enemies. If there’s a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, Beast smashes up his lab destroying 3 random tiles, each dealing 33 to all enemies, but not generating AP.
            Upgrades:
              2. Deals 164 to all enemies. 3. If there is a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, destroys 6 tiles. 4. Deals 219 to all enemies. 5. If there is a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, destroys 12 tiles. MAX LV 5: Deals 696 to all enemies, destroys 12 tiles dealing 104 damage per tile.

            greentile.pngAnimal Inside - Cost: 9 Green AP - NEW
            Jumping and slashing as he moves through enemies, Hank can barely control his animal side. Deals 192 to all enemies. If there’s a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, Beast smashes up his lab destroying 3 random basic tiles, each dealing 33 to all enemies, but not generating AP.
            Upgrades:
              2. Deals 219 to all enemies. 3. If there is a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, destroys 6 tiles. 4. Deals 246 to all enemies. 5. If there is a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, destroys 12 tiles. MAX LV 5: Deals 780 to all enemies, destroys 12 tiles dealing 104 damage per tile.

            yellowtile.pngMedical Marvel - Cost: 11 Yellow AP - OLD
            Dr. McCoy uses his medical triage skills to patch up the team before they rush back into battle. Gives a burst of 274 health to allies. If there’s a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, he provides a gadget to aid them. 1 basic Yellow tile becomes a strength 16 Protect tile.
            Upgrades:
              2. Gives a burst of 356 health to allies. 3. Creates 2 protect tiles of strength 16. 4. Gives a burst of 493 health to allies. 5. Creates 3 protect tiles of strength 21. MAX LV 5: Heals for 1564 health and creates 3 protect tiles of strength 69.

            yellowtile.pngMedical Marvel - Cost: 11 Yellow AP - NEW
            Dr. McCoy uses his medical triage skills to patch up the team before they rush back into battle. Gives a burst of 383 health to allies. If there’s a friendly Blue Special tile on the board, he provides a gadget to aid them. 1 basic Blue tile becomes a strength 16 Protect tile.
            Upgrades:
              2. Gives a burst of 490 health to allies. 3. Creates 2 protect tiles of strength 16. 4. Gives a burst of 689 health to allies. 5. Creates 3 protect tiles of strength 37. MAX LV 5: Heals for 2191 health and creates 3 protect tiles of strength 121.

            [Extracted from original post. It and further discussion on the change can be found here].

            ***
            Original post:

            So post buff what is his best build - 5/5/3?

            Mine is 5/4/4 with a green in hand from the deadpool reward a few days ago. Level 78 of course icon_e_smile.gif
          • Pylgrim
            Pylgrim Posts: 2,316 Chairperson of the Boards
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            awarnica wrote:
            So post buff what is his best build - 5/5/3?

            Mine is 5/4/4 with a green in hand from the deadpool reward a few days ago. Level 78 of course icon_e_smile.gif

            Yeah, even improved, his yellow is still abysmal. I believe his blue and green offer somewhat the same value as R&G's, but the fact that R&G's yellow is so much better (even if passive!) that there's still little reason to use Beast instead R&G
          • Phaserhawk
            Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
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            Pylgrim wrote:
            awarnica wrote:
            So post buff what is his best build - 5/5/3?

            Mine is 5/4/4 with a green in hand from the deadpool reward a few days ago. Level 78 of course icon_e_smile.gif

            Yeah, even improved, his yellow is still abysmal. I believe his blue and green offer somewhat the same value as R&G's, but the fact that R&G's yellow is so much better (even if passive!) that there's still little reason to use Beast instead R&G

            Except Beast's blue is less than 1/2 the cost. Given the tiles are random and about 1/2 of what R&G's are, but you can get them out sooner and they only have a 1 turn CD, it's just not placeable, plus Beast's Green is 2028 AoE damage now. I'm not trying to say Beast is better, but I wouldn't say there is no reason to use Beast now as he is much quicker than R&G, just not as durable.
          • Marc_Spector
            Marc_Spector Posts: 626 Critical Contributor
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            Phaserhawk wrote:
            Except Beast's blue is less than 1/2 the cost. Given the tiles are random and about 1/2 of what R&G's are, but you can get them out sooner and they only have a 1 turn CD, it's just not placeable, plus Beast's Green is 2028 AoE damage now. I'm not trying to say Beast is better, but I wouldn't say there is no reason to use Beast now as he is much quicker than R&G, just not as durable.

            Agree - Beast is absolutely nowhere near R&G in terms of sustainability, but I was surprised at the how much better this absolute below-the-bottom-of-the-barrel *** seems with these small tweaks. I love the reduced cost and random placement of his blue, but moreso that his green now only targets basic tiles -- protecting from destruction not only his own just-created blues but any other friendly specials. Without true healing his yellow will stay an AP-dump, so I'm going to stick with 5/5/3 and work on levelling him after IW and She-Hulk.

            There's now a sense of controlled chaos there between his redesigned blue and green, which I think is perfectly in keeping with the character of Hank McCoy.

            Not everyone can be top-tier, but Beast seems to have gone from being a "sell on sight" warning from me to newer alliance-members, to being a fairly balanced utility/support character with a decent green that feels like a safer Unstoppable Crash meets RageOfThePanther-lite.
          • dkffiv
            dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
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            Phaserhawk wrote:
            Except Beast's blue is less than 1/2 the cost. Given the tiles are random and about 1/2 of what R&G's are, but you can get them out sooner and they only have a 1 turn CD, it's just not placeable, plus Beast's Green is 2028 AoE damage now. I'm not trying to say Beast is better, but I wouldn't say there is no reason to use Beast now as he is much quicker than R&G, just not as durable.

            Agree - Beast is absolutely nowhere near R&G in terms of sustainability, but I was surprised at the how much better this absolute below-the-bottom-of-the-barrel *** seems with these small tweaks. I love the reduced cost and random placement of his blue, but moreso that his green now only targets basic tiles -- protecting from destruction not only his own just-created blues but any other friendly specials. Without true healing his yellow will stay an AP-dump, so I'm going to stick with 5/5/3 and work on levelling him after IW and She-Hulk.

            There's now a sense of controlled chaos there between his redesigned blue and green, which I think is perfectly in keeping with the character of Hank McCoy.

            Not everyone can be top-tier, but Beast seems to have gone from being a "sell on sight" warning from me to newer alliance-members, to being a fairly balanced utility/support character with a decent green that feels like a safer Unstoppable Crash meets RageOfThePanther-lite.

            Beast honestly isn't that bad in his current form, I think I like him more than Rag. His blue is sorta a gamble at this point, it really should convert TU tiles, but I don't mind taking my level 95 5/5/3 to fight 2* characters. If he had 10k health like Groot he'd probably be tolerable with his current stats.
          • Pylgrim
            Pylgrim Posts: 2,316 Chairperson of the Boards
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            Phaserhawk wrote:
            Pylgrim wrote:
            awarnica wrote:
            So post buff what is his best build - 5/5/3?

            Mine is 5/4/4 with a green in hand from the deadpool reward a few days ago. Level 78 of course icon_e_smile.gif

            Yeah, even improved, his yellow is still abysmal. I believe his blue and green offer somewhat the same value as R&G's, but the fact that R&G's yellow is so much better (even if passive!) that there's still little reason to use Beast instead R&G

            Except Beast's blue is less than 1/2 the cost. Given the tiles are random and about 1/2 of what R&G's are, but you can get them out sooner and they only have a 1 turn CD, it's just not placeable, plus Beast's Green is 2028 AoE damage now. I'm not trying to say Beast is better, but I wouldn't say there is no reason to use Beast now as he is much quicker than R&G, just not as durable.

            True. I was mostly pointing that R&G have a really great Yellow, while Beast's is so bad that you'll never use it. So, 3 abilities vs 2, basically.