Human Torch (Johnny Storm) - 2*

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

This. I didn't play the last few days of the most recent Heroic because I had real video games to play, and I told myself that if nothing enticed me into jumping into the Doom tourney before midnight tonight I would just quit. Since the game one-upped me and gave me yet another disincentive to play, I think I'm out.

The problem I have here isn't what true healing or character level shenanigans have respectively done to the game (they may well be positive long-term solutions, despite my misgivings), it's that this game is getting bloody boring. We wait a million years for a new 2* character and it's Silver Torch? And we win him at the end of Simulator number...5? 6?

This game would have been great with a little new content. Sadly, that is clearly not in the cards.

Unknown

I am not totally against this because a 2* Torch will be useful for someone with a newly emerging 2* roster. Human Torch is a good character, his powers are useful and can do a fair bit of damage. Flame Jet, if used properly with a good supply of green to keep the damage up can cause an awful lot of ongoing damage.

I think the mistake they have made is releasing him as a reward in a long 10 day PVE event and in giving him as a reward in the slots normally filled by 3* characters.

This is a problem because the players for whom he will be of any use are the ones with a 1* roster and a handful of under-levelled 2*s and a player like that will not be placing high enough to win him. If you can place in top 100 with the roster you already have then chances are you dont need him at all.

If he had been the prize for lower placings instead of Cap in this event then it would have been of far more use to the players who need a character like him.

Oh and IceIX really shouldnt have told us there would be a NEW 2* character. Although technically correct as there isnt an OLD 2* Torch obviously nobody took that to mean a rehash of an already existing 3*. Very misleading Ice, you naughty man

Nonce Equitaur 2

Any Johnny Storm discussion that should be saved more prominently should be moved or copied to the new ** Human Torch (Johnny Storm) ** Character page.

OzarkBoatswain

Inferno converts tiles into Attack Tiles, not Strike Tiles.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

my only question is: why? there's already an underused 3* torch, there's literally HUNDREDS of other characters to choose from in the Marvel universe, instead they go the even more lazy route with a "new" two star.

Kolence

Are those numbers correct? Looking in game at level 2 abilities, they are all inferior to the 3* version. And the old 3* stats were for a level 15, just as the new 2* is. So they seem to start the same but as you add covers, the 2* gains less at the same levels.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

those are just copy/pasted from the 3* for a placeholder

Twysta

I think this release is just to get the focus off of True Healing.

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

I think this release is just to get the focus off of True Healing.

I thought that's what the level shift was for?

Twysta

Nah, that was a positive.

I think they're going for the 2 negatives make a positive approach.

Kikujiro

I think the real lazy torch is the one we already have as a 3 star ...

IceIX on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:25 pm wrote:

I'm not 100% on new 1*s, but I know we've got more 2s and 4s coming at the very least.

IceIX on Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:16 am wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Darn. No new character hints :S lol

I'd spill, but I'm worried you all would be all "Flame on!" on me...

Anyway, I've him at level 140, so I won't put ISO in TorchLight (pun intended) but I'll have to put 550HP on another slot

NorthernPolarity

The whole point of having these lazy characters is so that the devs can spend minimal effort working on releasing a new haracter so that they can FOCUS ON NEW CONTENT INSTEAD. I really dont understand what all the hate is about here, since its not like they spent the dev time used to make a new character to make lazytorch: i would much rather them release a character like this to flesh out the 2* roster than to spend 4x the time developing a new 2* character that no one in 3* land or even 2* land even remotely cares about to justify the development effort spent.

I think the real question that should be asked is whether or not this gives 2* players more meaningful options and whether or not torch makes 2* land a better place to be, and i think it does. Black desperately needed a relevant ability in 2* land, and inferno turns out to be pretty good. Furthermore, torch red is a lot better than thor/ares red so torch+thor/ares+obw sounds like a better team. Could the devs have focused on more impactful changes to 2* land such as buffing underused characters instead? Probably. Is the game actively worse because 2* torch exists? Not really.

Edit: I think if you guys want to complain about something, you should be complaining about why they haven't done things like those buffs or what gamar said, since the argument of "why not release a new character instead" just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

The whole point of having these lazy characters is so that the devs can spend minimal effort working on releasing a new haracter so that they can FOCUS ON NEW CONTENT INSTEAD.

*Releases a dozen lazy characters*

meanwhile

*takes seven months to funbalance two characters*
*every PvE is a rehash*
*Ares Sunder bug still not fixed*

NorthernPolarity

gamar wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

The whole point of having these lazy characters is so that the devs can spend minimal effort working on releasing a new haracter so that they can FOCUS ON NEW CONTENT INSTEAD.

*Releases a dozen lazy characters*

meanwhile

*takes seven months to funbalance two characters*
*every PvE is a rehash*
*Ares Sunder bug still not fixed*

Well look at it this way: if these lazy characters werent released, then the 3 months it took to balance spidey could have easily turned into a year . I was just trying to answer all these complaints im seeing of people going "omg why didnt they release a new 2* character instead", since those people dont seem to recognize that there is limited dev time available and opportunity cost involved in developing a new 2* character. And yes, your point is perfectly valid in that there are all of these problems that the devs have neglected to answer, but those things would take even longer to fix if they spent time developing new 2*s instead of releasing the lazy chars.

Moral

ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:

those are just copy/pasted from the 3* for a placeholder

The level 15 single cover abilities are correct, but adding covers is much less impressive than the 3* version.

Twysta

I think while your point is well taken Pol, what he's trying to say is that despite these slew of new characters...

We're seeing no evidence of any activity of popular new content.
Instead we're seeing things like, new crit boost gem, new sound on desert ability, Nerf, nerf, nerf, new reward page, event rerun, event rerun, server down, server down.

Personally for me I'm disappointed that they've repeatedly gone back on their word.
Most of us know these things take time, but I've seen smaller teams do things faster and more efficiently than this.

I'm just disappointed... just disappointed

Unknown

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I would have honestly taken a Lazy Yelena (2* or 3* with a 3rd ability) over a downgraded Human Torch.

No, she's too overpower!!

To make a lazy version of 2*/3* Yelena, the cost of her abilities has to be increased as least 50% to make her balanced!!

NorthernPolarity

Twysta wrote:

I think while your point is well taken Pol, what he's trying to say is that despite these slew of new characters...

We're seeing no evidence of any activity of popular new content.
Instead we're seeing things like, new crit boost gem, new sound on desert ability, Nerf, nerf, nerf, new reward page, event rerun, event rerun, server down, server down.

Personally for me I'm disappointed that they've repeatedly gone back on their word.
Most of us know these things take time, but I've seen smaller teams do things faster and more efficiently than this.

I'm just disappointed... just disappointed

Those are all perfectly valid complaints, and I'm disappointed as well in the lack of new content/changes that you're talking about. However, what irritated me was that a lot of the people on this forum didn't react in that way at all, and instead complained about the character being a rehash of a 3* and that d3 should make new 2* characters instead: as you can see here, or here, how about here, and here... the list goes on.

A more fully fleshed out explanation of my reasoning: Suppose you're d3 and you want to release a new 2* character. Your two options are to either:
A. Release a new character. This means creating/balancing new abilities, character models, animations, and sounds. Since you need to do everything from scratch, lets say that it takes two weeks of development effort to do.
B. Release LazyTorch. Since you have 3* Torch to work off of, all you need to do is tweak the numbers on his abilities, and make a new skin for the already existing character model/animations. This would take considerably less time and only take a few days to finish.

The thing about 2* characters is that they don't make d3 a lot of money. Since hardly anyone is going to spend HP cover maxing a character that they can win the covers for by just playing PvP, they aren't going to make nearly as much money from releasing a 2* than from a 3* such as Sentry or even She-Hulk. Furthermore, none of the 3* players even remotely care about the 2* anyways. Even if the 2* was a completely new character, the 3* guys would go "Oh that's nice", and just straight up never use the character again outside of buffed events. So if the devs made a new character, they would have spent two weeks on something that didn't make them a lot of money and that a large majority of their playerbase will never use. Given this, I think that them releasing a lazy 2* character is a perfect way for them to get a new 2* character out while being able to focus their time on other stuff.

Keep in mind that this reasoning ONLY applies to the scenario where the two options were to either release a new 2* character or release a lazy 2* character (which again, is the scenario that a lot of people are thinking about). When you factor in options such as buffing **** 2* characters to make them playable, bug fixes, etc, then yeah, its reasonable to argue that they should have done all that stuff and just have another PvE without a new character instead. But what I'm seeing instead is what I perceive to be a knee-jerk reaction that people want new 2* characters without actually thinking about the opportunity costs and such of creating those new characters.

In general, when I try to see whether or not an argument like this is valid, I would just think to myself that if I was talking to a manager and asked him, "Why did you make 2* LazyTorch instead of a new 2* character", I would think how he would reply to that question and whether or not it was a reasonable response. I would guess that their response would be something along the lines of what I just said, and conclude that what they did was perfectly reasonable. Now, if I were to ask a manager, "Why did it take 7 months for you to funbalance Spidey/C. Mags, why is the Ares sunder bug not fixed, why is it taking you so long to buff characters that are clearly underpowered", I'd probably get a response like "Lots of unforeseen issues happening during development. Haven't gotten around to bugfixing/balancing because its hard and we need to release new content, etc", and think that response was a lot less reasonable.

I think one of the sadder things thats happening as a result of this is that I feel like the general post quality of this board is devolving due to responses like the ones I've mentioned, and that as the board degrades more, our voice will be heard less and less because the majority of the arguments just don't really make any sense. Not to say that the devs have really been listening to us too much to begin with, but they at least did to some extent back in the day with things such as the victory bonus. We need to be asking the right questions if we want to be taken seriously, but I guess that might be too much to ask as the community grows larger.

Spoit

If anything the forum community is constricting. While the changes haven't helped, it's IceIX only popping in once a month to drop a piece of bad news and maybe respond for a couple hours before having to regenerate his health packs, that has lead to the downturn in the forum civility

Unknown

i believe that there is a lot of valid conversation above.

but im just going to cut to the chase and say what most of the community is feeling on some level

KITTY the devs and their piss poor decision making / lack of understanding / lack of respect for the folks who keep this KITTY game afloat

KITTy 2* poop flavored matchstick...i will never level him. i may cover max him and sell one of my tank slots to acquire the KITTY **** pathetic excuse for a character, but KITTY ur poor **** strategy and i hope it leaves u broke and in the street when all is said and done.

this is simply a rant...im not rage quitting. i still like this game. but i am doubling down on my resolve to stick it to this KITTY team of clueless souls who are (currently) in charge of things.

tbe tide is building. enjoy the ride. you are apparently not intelligent enough to tell when the tide is turning.

marc