Predict the new newbie team with c.storm dead

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Ranzera wrote:

M Hawkeye is pretty good imo. It would have been nicer if he did slightly less damage in exchange for one of his timers being 1 turn at level 5 but he's still pretty decent as is.

Agree on the countdown assessment. On the missions where you're against generic goons and your countdown tiles are pretty much guaranteed to go off (of which there's a few in this event), he makes a decent clearer.

Unknown

With these changes I really want to remove 2 yellow from my 4/4/5 Storm. She is on lvl 85 and there is lot of time/ISO invested in building max character. Because of these changes I need to build whole new character, which sucks. Can we request from support to remove 2 yellow?

Unknown

I guess I can't complain, enjoyed my time with my c.storm + fodder but it's pretty un-fun after a while... my wolvie is 5/3/4 right now so im not too worried as Thor/Wolvie is pretty strong... I like pairing those 2 with IM40 cuz wolvie just goes to town with all that extra red u generate with IM40

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Someone posted a suggestion in Character Discussion (sorry, forgot who) for a Rag / Storm / Daken team.

I'm thinking/hoping newer players might be able to use a "lite" version of this team as Thor / C. Storm / Daken.

The idea is that Thor's yellow creates green -> Match green to passively create Daken strike tiles -> Collect green to hit Storm's green, repeat if you get enough AP.

The obvious problems are that Storm's green will end up destroying Daken's strike tiles, along with the general squishiness of Daken & Storm, but it might be worth looking into.

Despite the nerf, Thor / C. Storm / Wolvie should still be a pretty good team despite the strike tile issue.

Unknown

I seem to be the only person frustrated by what this change does to wolverine. This change is a real problem for characters that use DoT-like attacks instead of single massive shots.

Unknown

I think it's a good change on a whole. The ability is supposed to be a defensive mechanism, not an offensive one. Will be interesting to see how it effects the overall environment of the game. I've been of the opinion that games go by too quickly and anything that slows them down is a good thing. Things like massive point loss in the last minutes of tournaments would be reduced simply because people couldn't save up targets for the last minute any more.

I also half suspect this change was made in hopes of reducing the impact of Ragnarok without actually changing Ragnarok. The way it used to work, with a throwaway character, 1 tempest = 2-3 thunderclaps which usually means the game is over. As someone who has a max red Ragnarok though, I'd be very surprised if there aren't any changes to him. They're probably just trying to figure out a way to do it without massive backlash.

5 red Ragnarok is just ridiculous. Game breaking in my opinion. 9 out of 10 games, if I can get a 6 in 3 turns(either from matches, forest or tempest), it's just spam his red/green until enemy is dead with the occasional other ability from ap gained due to cascades. Basically, AI doesn't get to make another move. Sure there are times when rng decides to go the other way and I get 0 matches from 3 thunderclaps but those are too rare.

Ragnarok needs to be changed. I'm actually having less fun playing the game now that I have him. Sure at first it was like "o wow! here i come lightning rounds!" But after doing a few it just got boring. The only problem is how to change it without upsetting a large portion of the paying customers.

Personally I'd suggest something like reducing the number of green tiles spawned to 3. Perhaps increase the damage done just slightly to compensate. It'll still be a good ability but less likely to trigger crit tiles which is which is what I think makes Ragnarok game breaking. Or don't change it and let the AI cast it as many times as possible. Pretty sure even Rag owners will want a change after being on the receiving end for a while.

I'm sure many will disagree with me, and you're all as entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. But if you are someone who has Ragnarok at 5 red and don't see that a change is coming you have to pretty naive, or blinded by the power. So enjoy it while you can!

Unknown

casuist wrote:

I think it's a good change on a whole. The ability is supposed to be a defensive mechanism, not an offensive one. Will be interesting to see how it effects the overall environment of the game. I've been of the opinion that games go by too quickly and anything that slows them down is a good thing. Things like massive point loss in the last minutes of tournaments would be reduced simply because people couldn't save up targets for the last minute any more.

I also half suspect this change was made in hopes of reducing the impact of Ragnarok without actually changing Ragnarok. The way it used to work, with a throwaway character, 1 tempest = 2-3 thunderclaps which usually means the game is over. As someone who has a max red Ragnarok though, I'd be very surprised if there aren't any changes to him. They're probably just trying to figure out a way to do it without massive backlash.

5 red Ragnarok is just ridiculous. Game breaking in my opinion. 9 out of 10 games, if I can get a 6 in 3 turns(either from matches, forest or tempest), it's just spam his red/green until enemy is dead with the occasional other ability from ap gained due to cascades. Basically, AI doesn't get to make another move. Sure there are times when rng decides to go the other way and I get 0 matches from 3 thunderclaps but those are too rare.

Ragnarok needs to be changed. I'm actually having less fun playing the game now that I have him. Sure at first it was like "o wow! here i come lightning rounds!" But after doing a few it just got boring. The only problem is how to change it without upsetting a large portion of the paying customers.

Personally I'd suggest something like reducing the number of green tiles spawned to 3. Perhaps increase the damage done just slightly to compensate. It'll still be a good ability but less likely to trigger crit tiles which is which is what I think makes Ragnarok game breaking. Or don't change it and let the AI cast it as many times as possible. Pretty sure even Rag owners will want a change after being on the receiving end for a while.

I'm sure many will disagree with me, and you're all as entitled to your opinions as I am to mine. But if you are someone who has Ragnarok at 5 red and don't see that a change is coming you have to pretty naive, or blinded by the power. So enjoy it while you can!

I would set his red to cost 3 red at level 5. Generating only 3 green completely neuters him.

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DumDumDugn wrote:

I would set his red to cost 3 red at level 5. Generating only 3 green completely neuters him.

To those that think this isn't a very big change, I'd like to note that this is a 50% increase in cost. I would also support this change.

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Ranzera wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

I would set his red to cost 3 red at level 5. Generating only 3 green completely neuters him.

To those that think this isn't a very big change, I'd like to note that this is a 50% increase in cost. I would also support this change.

I would up the damage by 30% too

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Ranzera wrote:

DumDumDugn wrote:

I would set his red to cost 3 red at level 5. Generating only 3 green completely neuters him.

To those that think this isn't a very big change, I'd like to note that this is a 50% increase in cost. I would also support this change.

I don't know if that is the right solution or not, but agree there is a big difference between 2 and 3.

Unknown

Nerfing his HP while keeping his skills the same is another thing.

Unknown

I think completely neuters him may be an over reaction but I would agree that setting cost to 3 before changing anything else might be a better thing to try first. I'm reasonably sure that reducing the number of green tiles spawned to 3 isn't as bad as it sounds since with 2 AP cost you still generate a significant number of green tiles over lets say a 5 turn period.

My main concern would be that if raising cost to 3 isn't enough then further changes would have to be made which would result in more outrage and could cause the character to be broken. Often, 1 change that seems bad is better than many small seemingly acceptable changes.

I think the intent would be to raise the average length of games in terms of turns. As it stands, most of my games are over in 3 turns or less depending on how quickly I get forest tiles. Perhaps another change that could be useful would be to remove the bonus to terrain tiles that boosted characters get. Or maybe randomize levels. As it is I only pick the forest to play in. It's just too much of an advantage to start in the forest especially with boosted characters. I use Loki/Hood alot in lightning rounds just because they collect terrain AP so much faster. And with characters like Magneto, it's not hard to have enough AP for a forest fire + multiple +5 to all AP triggers just from 1 terrain tile crit.

It seems like I may be getting off topic branching out into terrain abilities but I think they all contribute to making Ragnarok the must have unstoppable force he is now. This is based on my experience using him over the last week since I got to 5 red. Once I get enough for 3-4 thunderclaps the game stops being 'Puzzle Quest' and turns into ability spam. Not much fun in my opinion.

Unknown

So if Rag only spawns 3 green tiles for 2 red AP then 6 red AP = 9 tiles spawned. If Rag continues to spawn 5 green tiles but is now charged 3 red AP then 6 red AP = 10 tiles spawned. He does more damage in the first case than the second. I think both nerfs are pretty similar.

Breakdown

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Nerf 1

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Nerf 2
Cost

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2 red AP

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3 red AP
Tiles mades----+3 green

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+5 green
Tiles/AP

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1.5 tiles

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1.67 tiles
Damage/AP----0.5*base

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0.33*base

Unknown

My $0.02.

CStorm being nerfed was probably a neccessary evil. I think that the devs envisioned X but everybody used her for Y. They realized that this was not the intent and made a change.

I could care less about this nerf. I never used her for her Yellow, but for her Green and Blue abilities which are amazing. She will always have a place on my team. I lvled her up to 85 after the nerf.

Rags is a different issue. I've got a 4/5 Rags. He is ridiculous and teamed with Cstorm, they are an unstopable combo.

However, why I don't think he needs to be nerfed for two simple reasons:
1) Regarldless of what team I use, I generally win probably 8 or 9 out of 10 matches anyway. Probably more, but hopefully you get my point. The game is focused on offense, so beating any team is generally quite easy. The only difference is that Rags/Cstorm can do it with very little damage taken. But I can beat any team with Thor and Cstorm, it's just that I'll take more damage in the process, since they aren't as fast to generate a win.

2) My 102 rags/cstorm team gets beaten regularly in tournaments. Nobody must be intimidated by Rags. Everybody knows that he can only hit once per round, as a NPC, so they go in and clean my clock in tournys all the time.

So I don't see a reason to nerf Rags. I get the win with less damage. I still get trounced in tournies. So I don't see the big deal.

Unknown

Blue Shoes wrote:

So if Rag only spawns 3 green tiles for 2 red AP then 6 red AP = 9 tiles spawned. If Rag continues to spawn 5 green tiles but is now charged 3 red AP then 6 red AP = 10 tiles spawned. He does more damage in the first case than the second. I think both nerfs are pretty similar.

Breakdown

Nerf 1 Nerf 2
Cost 2 red AP 3 red AP
Tiles mades +3 green +5 green
Tiles/AP 1.5 tiles 1.67 tiles
Damage/AP 0.5*base 0.33*base

more tiles spawned at once = more chances for 5 in a row, cascades, etc

Unknown

DumDumDugn wrote:

more tiles spawned at once = more chances for 5 in a row, cascades, etc

I agree, that's why I think they are so similar. It all depends on the situation as well. If you have 4 or 8 red AP, that will play differentlythan if you have 6 red AP. If there are a lot of green tiles on the board, that will play differently than if there are only a couple. Each has advantages in different situations, but largely they are similar.

*Of course I'm not going to figure out chances of making matches and cascades. I'm way to busy for that.