Finally, destruction of bad metagame!

Dauthi

I really don't understand the complaining. This is a great move by the developer, and hopefully they will continue. Going to prologue and healing your characters not only did not make any sense, it was not fun. It doesn't make any sense why we would have to do something not fun and unrelated to actual gameplay to compete with other players. Forcing players to play constantly due to prologue healing also increases burnout for many. It makes much more sense to increase health regeneration and allow people to spread their gameplay through out the day while still being able to compete, in fact it makes even mores sense with the recent refresh rates to PVE. Since it affects all players it means that casual players will have a slightly better chance at competing and all players will have to play less to keep up with those who used to play all due thanks to a terrible metagame.

The only downside I can see is that it made Spidey that much more useless. I am now crossing my fingers for them to do something about tanking, though it is understandable it is a much larger and complex system change to deal with. I expect there will be just as much discontent when tanking is fixed and the benefits taken away from the privileged who have always used it to fight characters 1/3 their level.

orionpeace

I think that you need to think it through a little better.

Cause the casual player will now get next to nothing.

And any player who was in the process of making the switch from 2* to 3* is royally screwed.

Unknown

Well if you want to understand, not everyone used prologue healing. Obw and spidey were able to top off every other match during the actual matches.

If they wanted to only kill prologue healing, they'd limit true healing to pve only.

Unknown

The 2* player is slightly worse off but not in a way that's meanignful. Previously the guy with OBW slowly grinded his way through prologue healing to say 700 points and then someone with Patch + Mag or any similar team with 500 points sees this 700 team and quickly put that team out of their misery, and the 2* guy goes back to slowing grinding again for the whole process to repeat and hope one of these times he gets lucky (or shielded on time). So now you'd have less chances though for the most part there are always the guys with super teams sitting at inexplicably low rating waiting to eat weak teams for dinner.

Besides, if there aren't enough cupcake teams to farm, the guy with the super team and a rating of 200 will still be attacking other super teams with much higher point than they are. In fact I think life is getting to be a bit tougher overall for the super teams, because they're going to have less target to farm after this change and will be forced to have to fight each other for a change.

MarvelMan

Um....it is ALL about the meta game: the actual game sucks.

The game itself is a fairly basic match three with a **** AI where the same chars are used over and over and over and over and over and over with the same animations (and flashing screens to hurt your eyes).

Still think trashing the meta game is good?

Edit: as iheart hints at, they are killing a fly with an ICBM. The devs are either lying about the intent or incredibly incompetent. Or both.

Dauthi

orionpeace wrote:

I think that you need to think it through a little better.

Cause the casual player will now get next to nothing.

And any player who was in the process of making the switch from 2* to 3* is royally screwed.

Oh really, why is this? Please enlighten me.

Dauthi

Phantron wrote:

The 2* player is slightly worse off but not in a way that's meanignful. Previously the guy with OBW slowly grinded his way through prologue healing to say 700 points and then someone with Patch + Mag or any similar team with 500 points sees this 700 team and quickly put that team out of their misery, and the 2* guy goes back to slowing grinding again for the whole process to repeat and hope one of these times he gets lucky (or shielded on time). So now you'd have less chances though for the most part there are always the guys with super teams sitting at inexplicably low rating waiting to eat weak teams for dinner.

Besides, if there aren't enough cupcake teams to farm, the guy with the super team and a rating of 200 will still be attacking other super teams with much higher point than they are. In fact I think life is getting to be a bit tougher overall for the super teams, because they're going to have less target to farm after this change and will be forced to have to fight each other for a change.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

MarvelMan wrote:

Um....it is ALL about the meta game: the actual game sucks.

The game itself is a fairly basic match three with a **** AI where the same chars are used over and over and over and over and over and over with the same animations (and flashing screens to hurt your eyes).

Still think trashing the meta game is good?

Even if you are trolling me, this is pretty hilarious. Thanks for the chuckle!

HailMary

The thing is, "true healing" seems to go a bit too far, especially for 2* players. Sure, prologue healing is an unpleasant mechanic, and as someone who used it a lot, I get why it should be done away with. However, "true healing" goes much farther than that.

Back when Ice first dropped the "we're eliminating prologue healing" bombshell, I speculated that a harsh-but-viable solution would be to prevent exit health from being higher than entry health. "True healing", however, seems to prevent exit health from ever surpassing the lowest health you reach at any point in the fight. I feel like that's a bit much.

simonsez

Phantron wrote:

The 2* player is slightly worse off but not in a way that's meanignful. Previously the guy with OBW slowly grinded his way through prologue healing to say 700 points and then someone with Patch + Mag or any similar team with 500 points sees this 700 team and quickly put that team out of their misery, and the 2* guy goes back to slowing grinding again for the whole process to repeat and hope one of these times he gets lucky (or shielded on time). So now you'd have less chances though for the most part there are always the guys with super teams sitting at inexplicably low rating waiting to eat weak teams for dinner.

Besides, if there aren't enough cupcake teams to farm, the guy with the super team and a rating of 200 will still be attacking other super teams with much higher point than they are. In fact I think life is getting to be a bit tougher overall for the super teams, because they're going to have less target to farm after this change and will be forced to have to fight each other for a change.

So if the 2* player can no longer grind via prologue to get his 700 points, and now has to be happy with 400 or whatever, how exactly is he not worse off? Your second paragraph confirms that 2* players will no longer be in the mix at all.

MarvelMan

simonsez wrote:

So if the 2* player can no longer grind via prologue to get his 700 points, and now has to be happy with 400 or whatever, how exactly is he not worse off? Your second paragraph confirms that 2* players will no longer be in the mix at all.

There seems to be opening of the MMR once you hit 500/700 so not poking your head above there will keep the hits down (relatively). Also, it looks like points will be harder to come by in general, which would help 2*s who were having trouble keeping up.

I still think that they will have a harder time, and place slightly lower though.

_RiO_

Dauthi wrote:

Forcing players to play constantly due to prologue healing also increases burnout for many. It makes much more sense to increase health regeneration and allow people to spread their gameplay through out the day while still being able to compete, in fact it makes even mores sense with the recent refresh rates to PVE. Since it affects all players it means that casual players will have a slightly better chance at competing and all players will have to play less to keep up with those who used to play all due thanks to a terrible metagame.

It also means players of Steam / PC edition of the game are now royally screwed out of any chance to effectively compete and place for 3* rewards.

PC players are only able to play in two bursts per day; a short period in the (very) early morning before leaving for work, and one big long chunk in the evening. They get no benefit out of the sped up health regeneration and they get no benefit out of the regeneration of the basic 5 health packs. Meanwhile, players of the mobile editions of the game get to spread out their matches over the day and use the regeneration mechanic to its full benefit.

What are these players supposed to do? Cave in and buy health packs just to place themselves at a competitive level with mobile players that pay nothing?
No; I think those players are going to have a mass exodus away from the game and to greener pastures.

OnesOwnGrief

I'm one of those people moving from 2* to 3* with a trio of characters at 100 and 3 others on the way to 100. This change does change how I will play a lot but it promotes joining brackets early as well in PvP so that you may place well since you can't just brute force your way to the top unless you have HP for Health Packs. I'm pretty comfortable with the change and I don't see it having a very large effect on my play. The one thing I can say however is that We're going to probably see a lot of Wolverines.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

So if the 2* player can no longer grind via prologue to get his 700 points, and now has to be happy with 400 or whatever, how exactly is he not worse off? Your second paragraph confirms that 2* players will no longer be in the mix at all.

Assuming equal available time/schedule, you were never passing up someone in the top tier. Whenever you get past around 500 or so you should've noticed that's where all the high level vultures come out and feast on your weak teams. How can those guys not pass up your score when they can trivially destroy your team if they have the same schedule as you? So true healing or not you were never beating those guys. For the rest, they're all in the crowd impacted by true healing so if it hurts you it hurts them too so the placement is unchanged. Now, progression might be affected, but you'll notice all the good rewards recently came down in terms of amount of points needed to reach. The most notable 50 HP went from 900 to 400+600 at 25 each.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

I think that you need to think it through a little better.

Cause the casual player will now get next to nothing.

And any player who was in the process of making the switch from 2* to 3* is royally screwed.

Oh really, why is this? Please enlighten me.

Most players with a two star team will have OBW and Thor/MN Mag/Ares/C.Storm. They might have Modern Storm for certain maps. The rest of their roster is filled with 3 stars they're attempting to get covers for.

There's quite a lot of players in this position as OBW could constantly keep your team topped off so you could run with a small handful of heroes while you built up your 3 star team. This is a lot worse than the "Funbalancing" update by far.

firethorne

While I can appreciate arguments on why the metagame was bad, simply removing it doesn't necessarily make it better. Removing healing just grants an advantage to players willing to pay. Healing was used a lot because it was effective and anyone could do it. Now, pay to win is effective.

It is like fixing a leaky faucet by removing the sink. Sure, technically the leaky faucet isn't there anymore. But, you've only made a bigger problem.

Unknown

MakeThemHomeless wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

I think that you need to think it through a little better.

Cause the casual player will now get next to nothing.

And any player who was in the process of making the switch from 2* to 3* is royally screwed.

Oh really, why is this? Please enlighten me.

Most players with a two star team will have OBW and Thor/MN Mag/Ares/C.Storm. They might have Modern Storm for certain maps. The rest of their roster is filled with 3 stars they're attempting to get covers for.

There's quite a lot of players in this position as OBW could constantly keep your team topped off so you could run with a small handful of heroes while you built up your 3 star team. This is a lot worse than the "Funbalancing" update by far.

And such a guy is likely fighting other guys operating with the same roster limitations. The top tier teams destroys such teams with ease with or without true healing, so they're still going to ruin your day one way or another.

simonsez

Phantron wrote:

The 2* player is slightly worse off but not in a way that's meanignful.

If a 2* player can now only play one battle per 35 minutes (unless they actually buy the damn healthpacks), I'd say that was pretty meaningful.

Dauthi

_RiO_ wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Forcing players to play constantly due to prologue healing also increases burnout for many. It makes much more sense to increase health regeneration and allow people to spread their gameplay through out the day while still being able to compete, in fact it makes even mores sense with the recent refresh rates to PVE. Since it affects all players it means that casual players will have a slightly better chance at competing and all players will have to play less to keep up with those who used to play all due thanks to a terrible metagame.

It also means players of Steam / PC edition of the game are now royally screwed out of any chance to effectively compete and place for 3* rewards.

PC players are only able to play in two bursts per day; a short period in the (very) early morning before leaving for work, and one big long chunk in the evening. They get no benefit out of the sped up health regeneration and they get no benefit out of the regeneration of the basic 5 health packs. Meanwhile, players of the mobile editions of the game get to spread out their matches over the day and use the regeneration mechanic to its full benefit.

What are these players supposed to do? Cave in and buy health packs just to place themselves at a competitive level with mobile players that pay nothing?
No; I think those players are going to have a mass exodus away from the game and to greener pastures.

So your post assumes those on phones are playing at work? It also assumes that PC players cant have more time than those on phones.

I would love to continue the discussion but it seems my pc was IP banned without any reason given. I guess a moderator doesnt agree with me. I will file a complaint about it now, to everyone else be careful if what you say is unpopular.

(update)

I miraculously can connect to the forums again through my PC! Thanks to whichever mod fixed the ban

OnesOwnGrief

Has anyone actually managed to take a step back from this for a moment and think about what effect this is going to have on MMR? This will officially bring balance to that over time so that they can isolate those in MMR hell and fix those too. People in 2* will actually spend longer periods of time in 2* as they build up their rosters unless they dump money into 3* characters. Even then, 3* will keep you within the 2 star range as long as you don't hit past the upper-mid 90s effectively giving you more players to work with before you take that last leap into the fire.

For those that want longer play sessions, Daken and Wolverine will be sought after for the 2* and 3* sets as they are allowed to keep their regeneration. Hulk may see more play because of his faster natural healing, and the damage he could do against the other team in terms of damage. You are now forced to think more about what combination of characters you're going to use and how they will effect the opposing team as you climb and as you set a team to defend. This would also allow Demiurge, God willing, to further balance characters other characters up to reasonable levels.

Dayv

MarvelMan wrote:

Um....it is ALL about the meta game: the actual game sucks.

Why the heck are you playing it, then? Ragequit and move on.

Unknown

ITT: a bunch of people with 3* rosters commenting on how much easier it will be for people with 2* rosters while knowing just about ****-all. Seriously. You know nothing about how it works for us. This makes everything so much harder for us. Take your uninformed opinions and shove them up your ****.