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    • **** Gertrude Yorkes (Runaways) ****

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    • DAZ0273
      DAZ0273 Posts: 10,745 Chairperson of the Boards
      bbigler said:
      show previous quotes
      My point was that you don’t have to read the comic books to play or enjoy this game.  So, comic book fans that are playing this game shouldn’t be surprised when people say they never heard of someone.
      And my point was that Runaways was a great gateway comic book into the Marvel universe. I don't think either of our points contradict each other?
    • bbigler
      bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
      kirk justice said:
      show previous quotes
      I think my issue with this is that they don't release the same character in a tier very often because of a limitation they have imposed on themselves. Nothing stops them from removing the limitation that prevents us from bringing the same named characters into battle together. Heck, they could even make it less restrictive by allowing same named characters from different universes into battle together (i.e. a 616 version of Cap and an MCU version of Cap). But because of this restriction the devs seem very adverse to releasing new versions of characters that already exist in the tier. 

      I'm not arguing that lesser known characters like this are bad for the game. I actually think its good that characters like Gertrude are released occasionally. I am arguing, however, that there is no way that a character like Gertrude would bring in more revenue for the game than a new flagship character (like say, Iron Man or Dr. Doom) based on name alone. Also, not taking into account viability in game, because strong or broken characters probably also generate a ton of revenue. Though doing that too often also has its drawbacks. 
      The sales technique is to have some mediocre products (which you don’t expect to sell much of) alongside good products (which you do expect to sell a lot of).  We only think something is a good deal because of its contrast with other offers.  So, a seller will purposely put out bad deals to make other ones look good.  Popcorn and drink prices at movie theaters are a prime example.  $3.50 for a small soft drink is a bad deal, but that makes us think $4.00 for the large drink is reasonable (or the least bad).  So, people usually buy the large.  

      The only reason buy clubs go crazy for their 30% more HP deals is because of their regular prices.  Players only get excited about good characters because we have lots of mediocre ones.  You need mediocre characters in order to make the good ones stand out.  “Because when everybody’s special, then no one is”

      Since 5* characters are mostly driving the game’s revenue and it takes a long time to champ and level up those 5*s, the frequency of meta breaking 5*s is only a few per year.  The rest are average, but still interesting in some way.  

      But the 4* tier is different.  By releasing mostly good new 4*s, it keeps both 4* and 5* players interested in them.  The 4* tier is already inferior to the 5* tier, so making them mostly good doesn’t break anything, plus the devs need a filler character between the 5*s.  If they released a new 5* every 2 weeks, then players wouldn’t be able to cover them in time.  

      Anyway, that’s why I think it’s inevitable that we get below average characters sometimes.  


    • bbigler
      bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
      @kirk justice 
      You brought up a point that isn’t talked about very much.  Why can’t you have 3 different versions of the same character in a battle?  Well, first it doesn’t make sense (unless they start pushing a multi-verse theme).  Second, they want to avoid broken combos (such as 3 Spidermans creating web tiles for everything they do).  They also try to avoid broken combos by having themes for each color. 
    • TheEyeDoctorsWife
      TheEyeDoctorsWife Posts: 832 Critical Contributor
      DAZ0273 said:
      show previous quotes
      And my point was that Runaways was a great gateway comic book into the Marvel universe. I don't think either of our points contradict each other?
      I have never read a DC comic , so in my thinking I would consider myself an idiot if I liked or played a game based on DC characters I know nothing about . (I’ve seen Batman and Superman on TV but not enough to spark interest in a video game). Other players may not think like me that’s fine . I know there are also characters and games which I think are based in another country , possibly Japan, I know nothing about them either and likewise avoid those games. I don’t even know the other games that D3 has created. I’m fortunate to have time to play one game .
    • ThaRoadWarrior
      ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,536 Chairperson of the Boards
      DAZ0273 said:
      show previous quotes
      I didn't like the show it did not do justice to the original source material. The original was written by Brian K Vaughan who was riding high on Y the Last Man and as would go on as a writer on Lost. Not sure if he had anything to do with the Hulu show. As for the old man thing, he was mid 20s when he wrote Runaways.
      Be that as it may, I can tell you that something I wasn't doing as a teen was making 40 year old music and 60 year old theater references regularly.
    • DAZ0273
      DAZ0273 Posts: 10,745 Chairperson of the Boards
      ThaRoadWarrior said:
      show previous quotes
      Be that as it may, I can tell you that something I wasn't doing as a teen was making 40 year old music and 60 year old theater references regularly
      Let's not pretend that comic books have ever been on the cutting edge of teen culture. DC for 50 years was written mostly by middle aged White men in suits who despised the kids they thought were reading their books. Even the X-Men had horridly outdated references. Runaways was during a period of Marvel when they were at least trying new things. Kevin Smith Daredevil, Morrison on X-Men, X-Statix, Marvel Boy, Jenkins Inhumans. In the end the Tsunami line, despite having several award winning books was a sales failure but I wouldn't hold that against it considering what it was trying to achieve. Anyway, 2022 has been the year of oddball releases so far and Gertrude fits in with that just fine. We have seen a glimpse of other potential characters which seems to offer a bunch of better known ones so it should balance out.
    • DAZ0273
      DAZ0273 Posts: 10,745 Chairperson of the Boards
      TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
      show previous quotes
      I have never read a DC comic , so in my thinking I would consider myself an idiot if I liked or played a game based on DC characters I know nothing about . (I’ve seen Batman and Superman on TV but not enough to spark interest in a video game). Other players may not think like me that’s fine . I know there are also characters and games which I think are based in another country , possibly Japan, I know nothing about them either and likewise avoid those games. I don’t even know the other games that D3 has created. I’m fortunate to have time to play one game .
      Labelling yourself an idiot for contemplating playing something you might enjoy regardless of familiarity seems an unusually harsh bar to set but each to their own. For example the Batman Arkham games are excellent even if, as I do, you think Batman is the most overrated character ever created.
    • Bad
      Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
      Luckily I 've read some superheros comics and I've watched almost all MCU movies, if not I'd be an idiot according to one person.
      Manga is comic too, we are not talking about riding bikes and fishing here.
      By the way manga is selling better than american comics in the majority of countries worldwide. It would be interesting to be questioning why.
      Opening minds bear fruits, and shows taking many elements from manga like The Boys or Invincible are having great success.
    • MegaBee
      MegaBee Posts: 1,100 Chairperson of the Boards
      Bad said:
      Luckily I 've read some superheros comics and I've watched almost all MCU movies, if not I'd be an idiot according to one person.
      Manga is comic too, we are not talking about riding bikes and fishing here.
      By the way manga is selling better than american comics in the majority of countries worldwide. It would be interesting to be questioning why.
      Opening minds bear fruits, and shows taking many elements from manga like The Boys or Invincible are having great success.
      It helps that manga does so many things other than superheroes.
    • kirk justice
      kirk justice Posts: 60 Match Maker
      edited March 2022
      bbigler said:
      @kirk justice 
      You brought up a point that isn’t talked about very much.  Why can’t you have 3 different versions of the same character in a battle?  Well, first it doesn’t make sense (unless they start pushing a multi-verse theme).  Second, they want to avoid broken combos (such as 3 Spidermans creating web tiles for everything they do).  They also try to avoid broken combos by having themes for each color. 
      Personally, I wouldn’t be bothered if it doesn’t make sense. I’m not exactly looking for realism in my match three game, although I can respect if other people are. Like I said before, I’d like to maybe see MCU variants of characters paired with 616 variants of characters and so on, at the very least.

      For your second point, I can’t think of any combos that aren’t possible in game right now that would be broken if they could be paired together (obviously it’s a big game and so I’m definitely missing some combos off the top of my head). But, using your example of web tile makers, those characters are already balanced around the idea that we will bring in 2-3 web tile makers into matches. I don’t think that letting us bring in 4* Spider-Man (Infinity War) with 5* Spider-Man (Peter Parker) and Spider-Man 2099 suddenly becomes more broken than if you brought Silk instead of Spider-Man Infinity War. 

      I don’t know, I’m not saying one way is right or wrong, I would just like more freedom in team building. 
    • ThaRoadWarrior
      ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,536 Chairperson of the Boards
      DAZ0273 said:
      show previous quotes
      Let's not pretend that comic books have ever been on the cutting edge of teen culture. DC for 50 years was written mostly by middle aged White men in suits who despised the kids they thought were reading their books. Even the X-Men had horridly outdated references. Runaways was during a period of Marvel when they were at least trying new things. Kevin Smith Daredevil, Morrison on X-Men, X-Statix, Marvel Boy, Jenkins Inhumans. In the end the Tsunami line, despite having several award winning books was a sales failure but I wouldn't hold that against it considering what it was trying to achieve. Anyway, 2022 has been the year of oddball releases so far and Gertrude fits in with that just fine. We have seen a glimpse of other potential characters which seems to offer a bunch of better known ones so it should balance out.
      I don't disagree, the show just felt really try-hard to me in a way that I didn't find compelling. I'm glad the comics mean something to people.
    • bbigler
      bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
      DAZ0273 said:
      show previous quotes
      Labelling yourself an idiot for contemplating playing something you might enjoy regardless of familiarity seems an unusually harsh bar to set but each to their own. For example the Batman Arkham games are excellent even if, as I do, you think Batman is the most overrated character ever created.
      I agree.  You don’t have to be a fan of the characters in a game in order to have fun playing the game. You could replace all the characters in this game with animals and I would still like it.  

      As for Batman, I think the Lego Batman movie portrayed him the best (and has the best story too).  Batman’s biggest enemy is himself as he is selfish, egotistical, arrogant, unkind, uncaring, thoughtless at times and a playboy.  He’s practically identical to Iron Man.  I like more Righteous characters like Superman and Captain America, who don’t need to fix themselves but spend their time fighting the evil around them.  
    • Blackstone
      Blackstone Posts: 661 Critical Contributor
      ...... ... What is this thread about?
    • Bad
      Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
      It's about a new character called gertrude.
    • Blackstone
      Blackstone Posts: 661 Critical Contributor
      Bad said:
      It's about a new character called gertrude.
      Is it though?
    • Bad
      Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
      Blackstone said:.
      Is it though?
      Is about players calling others idiots for not knowing who one character is, now that you insist.
    • HoundofShadow
      HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
      She feeds Ultron.
    • argle_bargle
      argle_bargle Posts: 89 Match Maker
      HoundofShadow said:
      She feeds Ultron.
      Oh, thank goodness (that she's a feeder, not that it's Ultron in particular.)
    • tonypq
      tonypq Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
      I love being able to place her traps, it's very refreshing. I really hate red and that you're basically at the mercy of another character making specials in order for it to actually do noticeable damage. Or having to cast her ability once to get out a few lousy special tiles that will be matched or destroyed before you get enough red attack power to use it again. 

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