What, in fact, is "full mana"...?

colditycoldity Posts: 42 Just Dropped In
edited 4 June 2020, 03:28 in MtGPQ Bugs & Technical Issues
I've noticed that both Lutri, The spellchaser as well as Apex of thunder give "full mana" to the respectice card they interact with. At least according to the card's text.. actually it behaves a little different...

The affected card was Finale of devastation and I've noticed this a couole of times now. when lutri is casted while the finale is the first spell in hand, it gets copied and gets also "full mana", which is base mana cost PLUS full stored mana, actually ready to cast (just if lutri wouldn't disable it).. 

When the effect of apex triggers and Finale of Devastation is going to be returned to the player's hand, of course, with "full mana" as well, it gets only it's base mana, not the stored mana..  (edit: just before anyone is going to ask, the finale wasn't in my GY after being casted though, but due to other effects, e.g. tamiyo vanguard..)

Imho "full mana" should mean full mana, i.e. base AND stored mana, otherwise the card wouldn't be full and could still gather some ... 

Just if not, it should be written on the card more clearly, e.g. "(...) gets its amount of base mana" or whatsoever..

Thanks for your notice @Oktagon_Support
Kind regards 

Comments

  • TremayneTremayne Posts: 1,013 Chairperson of the Boards
    I agree that there is an inconsistency with use of “full mana”.

    talking about this subject, isn’t it prudent to also include half mana from cards like Syr Carah, the bold? She gives half mana and then is also base only.
  • BongoTheGreyBongoTheGrey Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    This "full mana" inconsistency happens also with Kalamax, the Stormsire. His full mana does not includes stored mana
  • HeartstoneHeartstone Posts: 84 Match Maker
    Half mana was always base mana only, so those cards are consistent
  • EmissaryEmissary Posts: 8 Just Dropped In
    edited 5 June 2020, 16:02
    So as of at least the release of Ikoria, some cards that should give full mana, which includes stored mana previously, don't give any stored mana and only fill the base mana. I tested it using what I could with my collection and here is the list of cards that worked and didn't work. If you have any others that I don't it would be great if you could test them to add to it. 

     Does not work: Naru Meha, Hazoret's undying fury, Vadrok apex of thunder, emergent ultimatum, unpredictable cyclone, mirrorpool. 


    Does work: Omnispell Adept, Tamiyo Vanguard, the mirari conjecture, wildfire eternal, repeated reverberation, sunbird invocation, srams expertise, barals expertise, Lutri the spellchaser, expansion/explosion, Djinn of Wishes, pyromancers goggles.

    Clearly with so many more working than not it should mean those specific cards are bugged. Interesting to note is that not only are the full mana ones partially bugged, even the "for free" ones are. Both pyromancers goggles and mirrorpool let you cast spells for free, but only goggles fills the stored mana while mirrorpool doesnt. Previously it had also filled mana so it's also in this list of bugged full mana cards.

    @Oktagon_Support
  • HeartstoneHeartstone Posts: 84 Match Maker
    Hazoret's undying fury does not give full mana but reduces the cost to 0, so it's provably as expected that it doesn't fill the stored mana.
    Omniscience works the same way
  • TremayneTremayne Posts: 1,013 Chairperson of the Boards
    Half mana was always base mana only, so those cards are consistent
    True, it has always been half base, but that is what I’m challenging. 

    If half mana is half base and full mana is full plus stored mana (or awaken for that sake), then half Mana is not half. 
  • critmancritman Posts: 230 Tile Toppler
    Hear hear. The term 'full mana' should be consistent across all cards.

    It feels like this thread should be in General and not buried in bugs where fewer players will see it.
  • jtwoodjtwood Posts: 678 Critical Contributor
    critman said:
    Hear hear. The term 'full mana' should be consistent across all cards.

    It feels like this thread should be in General and not buried in bugs where fewer players will see it.
    I feel like this is a bug similar to how the token P/T buff language was a bug
  • critmancritman Posts: 230 Tile Toppler
    Hazoret's undying fury does not give full mana but reduces the cost to 0, so it's provably as expected that it doesn't fill the stored mana.
    Omniscience works the same way
    Consistency can therefore be achieved by making cards which include stored/awaken mana to read 'gain full mana', and cards which exclude stored/awaken mana to read 'cost is reduced to 0'
  • critmancritman Posts: 230 Tile Toppler
    edited 11 June 2020, 20:18
    I'm going to start documenting some of these as they happen to me and this seems like a good to place to do it.

    Vivien, Arkbow Ranger's 3rd ability says 'full mana' and it includes stored/awaken/X mana.
    Deadbridge Chant says 'full mana' and it includes stored/awaken/X mana.
  • colditycoldity Posts: 42 Just Dropped In
    critman said:

    It feels like this thread should be in General and not buried in bugs where fewer players will see it.
    Lol... :smiley: I'd say the most important section of the forums these days is unfortunately still (or again, I don't know) the bugs/issues section, instead of the General Discussion. I'm not sure whether I find this to be funny or rather pretty sad...

    However, it's unfortunately still mandatory to be able to play the game in an appropriate way at all...
  • critmancritman Posts: 230 Tile Toppler
    edited 12 July 2020, 13:09
    Naru Meha says 'full mana' and it does not include stored/awaken/X mana.

    Dark Ritual says 'full mana' and it does include stored/awaken/X mana.

    Hazoret's Undying Fury uses a different mechanic, reducing the spell's cost to 0.

    Mirrorpool and Bring to Light again use different wording, saying the cards "are free".
  • critmancritman Posts: 230 Tile Toppler
    @Oktagon_Support

    Clearly there are inconsistencies in the game: can you find out what full mana means for us so we can tell which cards are working as intended and which are not?
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