What, in fact, is "full mana"...? [Investigating]

coldity

I've noticed that both Lutri, The spellchaser as well as Apex of thunder give "full mana" to the respectice card they interact with. At least according to the card's text.. actually it behaves a little different...

The affected card was Finale of devastation and I've noticed this a couole of times now. when lutri is casted while the finale is the first spell in hand, it gets copied and gets also "full mana", which is base mana cost PLUS full stored mana, actually ready to cast (just if lutri wouldn't disable it).. 

When the effect of apex triggers and Finale of Devastation is going to be returned to the player's hand, of course, with "full mana" as well, it gets only it's base mana, not the stored mana..  (edit: just before anyone is going to ask, the finale wasn't in my GY after being casted though, but due to other effects, e.g. tamiyo vanguard..)

Imho "full mana" should mean full mana, i.e. base AND stored mana, otherwise the card wouldn't be full and could still gather some ... 

Just if not, it should be written on the card more clearly, e.g. "(...) gets its amount of base mana" or whatsoever..

Thanks for your notice @Oktagon_Support
Kind regards 

Tremayne

I agree that there is an inconsistency with use of “full mana”.

talking about this subject, isn’t it prudent to also include half mana from cards like Syr Carah, the bold? She gives half mana and then is also base only.

BongoTheGrey

This "full mana" inconsistency happens also with Kalamax, the Stormsire. His full mana does not includes stored mana

Heartstone

Half mana was always base mana only, so those cards are consistent

Emissary

So as of at least the release of Ikoria, some cards that should give full mana, which includes stored mana previously, don't give any stored mana and only fill the base mana. I tested it using what I could with my collection and here is the list of cards that worked and didn't work. If you have any others that I don't it would be great if you could test them to add to it. 

 Does not work: Naru Meha, Hazoret's undying fury, Vadrok apex of thunder, emergent ultimatum, unpredictable cyclone, mirrorpool. 


Does work: Omnispell Adept, Tamiyo Vanguard, the mirari conjecture, wildfire eternal, repeated reverberation, sunbird invocation, srams expertise, barals expertise, Lutri the spellchaser, expansion/explosion, Djinn of Wishes, pyromancers goggles.

Clearly with so many more working than not it should mean those specific cards are bugged. Interesting to note is that not only are the full mana ones partially bugged, even the "for free" ones are. Both pyromancers goggles and mirrorpool let you cast spells for free, but only goggles fills the stored mana while mirrorpool doesnt. Previously it had also filled mana so it's also in this list of bugged full mana cards.

@Oktagon_Support

Heartstone

Hazoret's undying fury does not give full mana but reduces the cost to 0, so it's provably as expected that it doesn't fill the stored mana.

Omniscience works the same way

Tremayne

Heartstone said:

Half mana was always base mana only, so those cards are consistent

True, it has always been half base, but that is what I’m challenging. 

If half mana is half base and full mana is full plus stored mana (or awaken for that sake), then half Mana is not half. 

jtwood

critman said:

Hear hear. The term 'full mana' should be consistent across all cards.

It feels like this thread should be in General and not buried in bugs where fewer players will see it.

I feel like this is a bug similar to how the token P/T buff language was a bug

coldity

critman said:

It feels like this thread should be in General and not buried in bugs where fewer players will see it.

Lol... I'd say the most important section of the forums these days is unfortunately still (or again, I don't know) the bugs/issues section, instead of the General Discussion. I'm not sure whether I find this to be funny or rather pretty sad...

However, it's unfortunately still mandatory to be able to play the game in an appropriate way at all...

jtwood

Someone pointed out to me today that Invoke Calamity fills stored mana for cards with casting cost of 6 or less. The previous GD response appeared to indicate that full mana was only for non-stored mana.

I'm paraphrasing here, but the dev response in that thread said, "If the normal mana bar is filled, that is considered full mana, and stored mana is ignored."

That leads us back to this discussion about what exactly is full mana. We need a definition of what it should be so we can know if a card should be submitted as bugged or not.

stikxs

jtwood said:

The previous GD response appeared to indicate that full mana was only for non-stored mana.

The way I read that response was a 2-part answer. If the card in question to be given mana is less than full base mana then it gets full base mana + full stored mana. If that card was already full base mana and none/some/all stored mana then the game would consider it full already and move to the next card if the filling effect could affect cards past the first.

So like, if you had BSZ as your first card with 2 mana when the filling effect happens it would get base+stored, but if it had 10 already it would get skipped for the filling effect.

jtwood

stikxs said:

jtwood said:

The previous GD response appeared to indicate that full mana was only for non-stored mana.

The way I read that response was a 2-part answer. If the card in question to be given mana is less than full base mana then it gets full base mana + full stored mana. If that card was already full base mana and none/some/all stored mana then the game would consider it full already and move to the next card if the filling effect could affect cards past the first.

So like, if you had BSZ as your first card with 2 mana when the filling effect happens it would get base+stored, but if it had 10 already it would get skipped for the filling effect.

Yeah, yeah... I can see that now. Obviously, that wasn't how I was reading it.

So full mana = base mana + stored mana if base mana < full base mana

Otherwise, full mana = base mana

Which, if that's correct, is a pretty crazy definition

BongoTheGrey

Crazy and non intuitive definition

Janosik

Using the Casualty ability of Cut of the Profits gives you a copy of the card with only it's base mana filled, and 0 stored mana

Magic:PQ Support Team

Hello guys,

I have forwarded your comments to the team and requested that they investigate these inconsistencies. As soon as I have a response from them, I will let you know.

Rebeca