Summon vs Cast -- Objective Inconsistencies -- Master Thread *Updated (4/1/19)

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  • ninjark
    ninjark Posts: 50 Match Maker
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    It's how paper Magic does tokens.
    Tokens are created (and put onto the battlefield).

    https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Create
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
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    Tremayne said:
    @Brakkis - so would it be wrong in some way to change the wording to “summon X tokens”?

    Currently I can’t see a scenario where create is necessary. Maybe I am overlooking something?

    It would be unnecessary. If the objective calls for tokens, you know you need to make tokens. Doesn't matter what the wording for making them is in that case. Just get to creating, spawning, or **** them out.
  • Monkeynutts
    Monkeynutts Posts: 566 Critical Contributor
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    This was working fine after it was FIXED during SOI.
    Why change it back......??
  • ArielSira
    ArielSira Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    Emrakuls Corruption, left node, objectives:

    - summon 2 or more werewolfs
    - summon 2 or less creatures

    Only creature in my deck is Ulrich. I play one via Vivians Invocation and one hardcasted from my hand. It counts both as summoned (2nd objective 2/2 and correct) but for some glorious reason it counts only one as a werewolf.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ArielSira said:
    Emrakuls Corruption, left node, objectives:

    - summon 2 or more werewolfs
    - summon 2 or less creatures

    Only creature in my deck is Ulrich. I play one via Vivians Invocation and one hardcasted from my hand. It counts both as summoned (2nd objective 2/2 and correct) but for some glorious reason it counts only one as a werewolf.

    I would like to add that this objective should possibly be changed. The intent at the time was that green should be able to use all the eldrazi tokens and things for the rest of the deck. Mono-green has no other damage options and the basic 5 walkers need to have a _chance_ (not a guarantee) of fulfilling all requirements.
    In this case the easiest solution is change both requirements to "cast" instead of "summon" which would return the expected behaviour.

    There are possibly a few other old events that need slight tweaks now the rules are fixed in stone. (Which is good!)
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The Vampire node of Emrakul's Corruption reads "Summon" but does not count cards returned from the graveyard to the battlefield by any effect (I tried Concoct, Dark Petition, and OG Lil's Ultimate)
  • Alanako
    Alanako Posts: 40 Just Dropped In
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    In rising tensions, green/black node, the third objective is cast 4 or more creatures with 3 or less toughness. Tokens created with Bolas second ability do not count, as expected with the new definition, but using his third ability to bring a creature from the graveyards counts.
    In the green/white mode stealing a creature from the opponent also counts to fulfill the cast creatures second objetive
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
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    Alanako said:
    In rising tensions, green/black node, the third objective is cast 4 or more creatures with 3 or less toughness. Tokens created with Bolas second ability do not count, as expected with the new definition, but using his third ability to bring a creature from the graveyards counts.
    In the green/white mode stealing a creature from the opponent also counts to fulfill the cast creatures second objetive

    Stealing a creature is the one method of getting a creature on your side of the field that shouldn't count towards either objective type.
  • Kinesia
    Kinesia Posts: 1,621 Chairperson of the Boards
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    starfall said:
    A *lot* of people don't know the difference between summon and cast. It needs to be explained in-game, ASAP.

    I've even been surprised to find out that some of my own teammates, who I talk to regularly, and who use this forum, don't know the difference between summon and cast.

    It seems like the only players who do know are the tiny subset who are extremely active on these forums.

    The "Training" missions need one for events that talks about objectives and includes information like this and new players (and old!) need to be better pushed towards training until they have completed it...

  • Alanako
    Alanako Posts: 40 Just Dropped In
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    Stealing creatures work for objectives in the white node of terrors in the shadows. I suppose in the other nodes too
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
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    That's not an inconsistency. Reinforcing isn't creating.
  • TheDude1
    TheDude1 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
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    Vivien's Invocation counted as casting creatures for objectives during RotGP, even though the text says that they are moved to the battlefield rather than being placed in hand first. I do not know if this was due to an error with Vivien's specifically or in the objective more generally (ie, if the "cast" was really counting like a "summon").
  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
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    jtwood said:
    On the white node of ToA, the requirement is "summon" embalm creatures. I summoned two Honored Hydras via Vivien's Invocation and hard cast the other one. The hard cast Hydra was the only one that counted towards the objective.

    (NOTE: Attacking with a 24/24 regular Hydra that is not buffed - so it's 3x the Hydra)


    Talking to others, it sounds like we are seeing this issue throughout ToA
    Black node is equally borked. 

    NB1’s 2nd and 3rd abilities counted for zilch on the summon objective for that node. 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Just Dropped In
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    I think "cast" is easy to understand.

    However, "summon" is a term that can be easily misconstrued as "cast" especially for newer players. 

    Thus, i believe a different term should be used all together like "enters the battlefield" or any other, better term. The problems with "enters the battlefield" is its wordy, hard to rearrange as an objective label, and also presents possible confusion and inconsistencies with "steal" effects. 

    Maybe "put x <blah blah> onto battlefield"?

    I also agree that create is unnecessary for now

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