Summon vs Cast -- Objective Inconsistencies -- Master Thread *Updated (4/1/19)

rafalele

Summoner's Pact: Fetch the first creature from your library and give it full mana. Then, lose life equal to the sum of power and toughness of that creature. https://mtgpq.info/cards/SummonersPact

Killer Instinct: While this support is on the board, your creatures gain Haste. At the beginning of your turn, fetch the first creature from your library and move it to the battlefield under your control. At the end of your turn, lose a creature reinforcement. If it can’t, destroy your first creature.https://mtgpq.info/cards/KillerInstinct

Summoner's Pact do count as casted, Killer Instinct do not.

They act different as Summoner's Pact puts the card in hand before putting iy in the battlefield and killer instinct do not.

The fact it is that in spanish (I play in spajish) both cards say that the fetched creature goes to hand after been fetched before putting it in the battlefield. In english none of them.

@Brigby, @Oktagon_Daiane Consistency please, not only in casting/summoning but in translation also.




As you can see in both cards is written in spanish "Pon en tu mano" which means "put in your hand" and in English it is not written in none of them.

Brigby

Update: The team has been working hard testing and making sure that Summon and Cast behaviors are consistent throughout various cards and objectives. While they have already fixed a large portion of these issues, there are a few that may still exhibit inconsistent behavior, however they are anticipated to be fixed in the upcoming 3.4 update

You can find a list of them below:

• [Cards] - Inconsistent Cast Behavior
• Arguel's Blood Fast
• Azor's Gateway
• Conqueror's Galleon
• Golden Guardian
• Growing Rites of Itlimoc
• Hadana's Climb
• Journey to Eternity
• Path of Mettle
• Profane Procession
• Search for Azcanta
• Storm the Vault
• [Cards] - Inconsistent Summon Behavior
• Baffling End
• Dowsing Dagger
• Imprisoned in the Moon
• Incongruity
• Turn to Frog
• [Events] - Inconsistent Cast Behavior
• General - Archmage Objective
• General - Magician Objective
• Return of the God-Pharaoh - Veteran Objective
• Emergency Ordinances - Aggressive Objective
• Fate is Rarely Fair - Gadgeteer Objective
• [Events] - Inconsistent Summon Behavior
• Trial of Zeal - Burst Objective

Brakkis

Brigby said:

Update: The team has been working hard testing and making sure that Summon and Cast behaviors are consistent throughout various cards and objectives. While they have already fixed a large portion of these issues, there are a few that may still exhibit inconsistent behavior, however they are anticipated to be fixed in the upcoming 3.4 update

You can find a list of them below:

• [Cards] - Inconsistent Cast Behavior
• Arguel's Blood Fast
• Azor's Gateway
• Conqueror's Galleon
• Golden Guardian
• Growing Rites of Itlimoc
• Hadana's Climb
• Journey to Eternity
• Path of Mettle
• Profane Procession
• Search for Azcanta
• Storm the Vault
• [Cards] - Inconsistent Summon Behavior
• Baffling End
• Dowsing Dagger
• Imprisoned in the Moon
• Incongruity
• Turn to Frog
• [Events] - Inconsistent Cast Behavior
• General - Archmage Objective
• General - Magician Objective
• Return of the God-Pharaoh - Veteran Objective
• Emergency Ordinances - Aggressive Objective
• Fate is Rarely Fair - Gadgeteer Objective
• [Events] - Inconsistent Summon Behavior
• Trial of Zeal - Burst Objective

You should add the green node from Emrakul's Corruption to the list purely to change it from Summon to Cast. The event and objective were both designed before the two were finally made distinct and with it being to set to Summon 2 or less, it's nearly impossible to achieve.

Brigby

Brakkis said:

You should add the green node from Emrakul's Corruption to the list purely to change it from Summon to Cast. The event and objective were both designed before the two were finally made distinct and with it being to set to Summon 2 or less, it's nearly impossible to achieve.

I've already passed that inquiry along to the team. Thanks for the heads up though!

Update: We will be changing that node's Burst objective from Summon to Cast in the 3.4 release.

Mburn7

The Blue node of Trial of Ambition reads "Summon 4 or more creatures"
It is playing as if it was "Cast 4 or more creatures"

Zzyzzx

I came here to express a similar concern for the left (Blue) node in Trial of Ambition.
The 2nd "Commander" objective reads "Summon 4 or more creatures during a single Fight".
I recently pulled "Drowner of Hope" and wanted to try it out.
It comes into play along with his wall of Scions and it only counted as 1 "Summon".

Zzyzzx

On a positive note, in Terrors in the Shadows, the black node (top) reads "Summon 2 or more Vampires..." and resurrecting vampires from the yard do indeed count as "summon".

Brigby

Mburn7 said:

The Blue node of Trial of Ambition reads "Summon 4 or more creatures"
It is playing as if it was "Cast 4 or more creatures"

This objective should now correctly count all summoned creatures starting in 3.4

ArielSira

So the Summon objective on AWR 1.1 is working as Cast. I'm pretty sure last time it worked properly for once. -3, highly annoyed.

I know nothing about programming but please explain to me why all the objectives can't be put into a central library from which the events grab/link to so it only ever has to be changed once in the central library.

LordDorwin

Regarding tokens, these come from nowhere, so "create" would be the correct word.  They are also annihilated - they don't (or shouldn't) go into the graveyard.

I have no problem with "Enter the battlefield(ETB)" as word usage once I knew where the battlefield was. (When I started playing the tutorial was very brief and didn't bother pointing out the zones of play).  It is a clear,  concise description of an action.

Regarding creatures acquired by using control cards(stealing) - such creatures are already on the battlefield and their changing sides shouldn't be seen as summoning or casting.  (Also: The distinction between owner and controller is blurred when doing this, in that ejection of such a card from the battlefield using a spell or a creature's ETB ability gives the controller the card, whereas the owner should get it back - not doing this can effectively enlarge the deck to over 10 cards).

Red (and black) has several spells which play cards from the opponent's graveyard for a single turn, then exile them.  Bearing the short time in mind, is this summoning and should it be? (Black's situation is clearer, in that the cards are kept until destruction and go into the [wrong] graveyard - see controller vs. owner as above)

Please also revise all objectives which are mutually exclusive (NB:Oath of the Gatewatch event).  Forcing players to play a match twice is uncreative and insulting to that player.



 

Laeuftbeidir

LordDorwin said:

Regarding tokens, these come from nowhere, so "create" would be the correct word.  They are also annihilated - they don't (or shouldn't) go into the graveyard.

I have no problem with "Enter the battlefield(ETB)" as word usage once I knew where the battlefield was. (When I started playing the tutorial was very brief and didn't bother pointing out the zones of play).  It is a clear,  concise description of an action.

Regarding creatures acquired by using control cards(stealing) - such creatures are already on the battlefield and their changing sides shouldn't be seen as summoning or casting.  (Also: The distinction between owner and controller is blurred when doing this, in that ejection of such a card from the battlefield using a spell or a creature's ETB ability gives the controller the card, whereas the owner should get it back - not doing this can effectively enlarge the deck to over 10 cards).

Red (and black) has several spells which play cards from the opponent's graveyard for a single turn, then exile them.  Bearing the short time in mind, is this summoning and should it be? (Black's situation is clearer, in that the cards are kept until destruction and go into the [wrong] graveyard - see controller vs. owner as above)

Please also revise all objectives which are mutually exclusive (NB:Oath of the Gatewatch event).  Forcing players to play a match twice is uncreative and insulting to that player.



 

Totally agree with the first half, also thank you for this nice and detailed explanation.

I somehow agree on the point about oath - although I wouldn't use "insulting". I also like this kind of objectives for charge based events like Avacyns madness, where they actually make the gameplay more interesting and a bit more versatile

Unknown

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Monkeynutts

Why don't you just revert to the rules that were put in around SOI.
A lot of stuff was fixed then and now slowly through new sets n patches its all going back to before those changes...
Tokens were changed to yield no objective benefit unless the objective specified tokens.
Now they contribute as a creature being summoned. Yet their 1/1 stat doesnt contribute to under strength X or under Toughness X objective. You can't have them contributing to one and not the other.
Viviens Invocation used to count on objective types, now it gives neither....So it's less useful than a token generating spell???
You've seriously made a mess of this Oktagon

Foznertep

Another thing, I find odd is that Tokens that are generated with a fitting General creature on the board are not even considered to be "entering the battlefield". At least as far as effects like Ajani's Welcome are concerned. 
Is that by design? Because it kills a lot of deck synergies.