Froggy said: Another nerf thread.I’m having a dajavu.Before we talk about another nerf, how about fixing the myriad of bugs in the game??And you must now be terrified that half the players own Omniscience by now and will be creating troll decks for Toilet on the Planes...Before we talk about more nerds, I think we need to talk about the bugs that break the game.Yes, I’m looking at you Giddy’s Intervention... So please, lay off of it. It’s a waste of resource.
Mburn7 said: starfall said: Mburn7 said: Look, Prism Array has always been stupidly powerful. And there have been sporadic complaints about it over the years. But the thing is, there really isn't any way to change it without either completely changing its function or making it completely useless. Not true. You could change it's mana cost, you could change it's number of shields. You could change the number of cards it draws. You could change the effect it has on your opponent's first creature, or remove the effect completely. You could make it not trigger on your opponent's turn.There's a broad spectrum of changes you could make to the card, and at one end, yes, it's completely useless, and at the other it's overpowered. But there's a lot of space in the middle. One example of a more balanced Prism Array is Retreat to Coralhelm. That's a perfectly decent, if unspectacular, card. And you can see that there's design space in the middle for a card more powerful than RTC and less powerful than PA. Yes I was being a little hyperbolic, but I don't agree that it would be so easy to fix.Retreat to Coralhelm is a garbage card except for beginners. If you are basing a landfall deck around it you should probably be using something else, and if you aren't it is total junk since you don't get landfalls THAT often for its measly effect to be worth it.But fine, lets use that as a base (cheap, your landfall: Disable and draw 1) and try to find the middle ground for Prism Array (cheap, any landfall: Disable and draw 3)Make it draw 2 cards instead of 3? Still overpowered.Remove the Disable effect? Still overpowered, but less useful in a non-infinite combo deckMake it draw 1 card instead of 3? Mostly useless, but still works in the combo deck.Remove the draw? Useless card.Increase the cost and keep it the same otherwise? Still overpowered, but just takes a little longer to go offMake it only work on your turn? Still overpowered, but less useful in a non-infinite combo deckDid I miss something? I can't think of another individual effect, nor can I see a combination that would work in the desired way.
starfall said: Mburn7 said: Look, Prism Array has always been stupidly powerful. And there have been sporadic complaints about it over the years. But the thing is, there really isn't any way to change it without either completely changing its function or making it completely useless. Not true. You could change it's mana cost, you could change it's number of shields. You could change the number of cards it draws. You could change the effect it has on your opponent's first creature, or remove the effect completely. You could make it not trigger on your opponent's turn.There's a broad spectrum of changes you could make to the card, and at one end, yes, it's completely useless, and at the other it's overpowered. But there's a lot of space in the middle. One example of a more balanced Prism Array is Retreat to Coralhelm. That's a perfectly decent, if unspectacular, card. And you can see that there's design space in the middle for a card more powerful than RTC and less powerful than PA.
Mburn7 said: Look, Prism Array has always been stupidly powerful. And there have been sporadic complaints about it over the years. But the thing is, there really isn't any way to change it without either completely changing its function or making it completely useless.
Gabrosin said: The reason this deck seems so good is because Greg is accidentally able to pilot it effectively, most of the time. He produces the right creature and support and then fires off the gamebreaking spell sequence. There are far more degenerate things that players get to do, but often Greg isn't set up to do them to us.
ZW2007- said: Mburn7 said: Make it draw 1 card instead of 3? Mostly useless, but still works in the combo deck. You missed shield count. Double it's casting cost to 12, reduce cards drawn to 2 per landfall, reduce shields to 2, leave the rest the same. Still a very strong card but not overpowered. 12 mana or 3 mana or 30 mana doesn't make much difference once the deck is looping but it will take more than a first-turn match-3 for Kiora to drop it. Drawing only 2 per landfall and having only 2 shields makes it more likely to pop itself before it draws another copy.
Mburn7 said: Make it draw 1 card instead of 3? Mostly useless, but still works in the combo deck.
Tremayne said: Mawren said:I'm simply saying that people have a habit of giving pat answers without appreciating how practical those proposed solutions actually are. I don’t know what pat answers means, but I hope that it is not derogatory!@mawren - I will assume that it is not, due to your history of fair answers. However I do not think that you are being fair in your assessment of my response to the OP. My point was that the OP was complaining about a combo design that required a huge number of cards, which I think was impossible to nerf.I think the OP’s complaint is about something that there is no answer to, because he was hit by randomness. Try to nerf that!I deliberately avoided answering with “add Mistcaller” because you are right that is not practical solution.stormcrow’s sums at lot of what I wanted to say to the OP.
Hi Tremayne, just to clarify, "pat answers" are explanations that have been given several times before, but aren't always sincere or genuine because they fail to acknowledge the realities of PQ gameplay.
These type of answers are problematic when people use them as an excuse to dismiss someone else's concerns instead of genuinely investigating the root of the problem—and there are several problems at the root of PQ gameplay that are fundamental design issues.
Basically, the answer to "why has Kiora been an issue for 3 years" is not "just run Kambal" or "just run support removal". It ALSO isn't "nerf Prism Array", though.
Hope that makes more sense.
arNero said: eventually it will be the ONLY deck ever being run in Legacy blue/green events
wereotter said: It doesn't help if it's in slot 1 for Prism Array, but.... Mistwalker is pretty effective against Part the Waterviel turning all those island tokens into card draw for you instead. I run it semi regularly in general decks, but always plug it in if I'm seeing myself paired off against Saheeli, Elspeth, or the new Tezzeret.
starfall said: Out of interest, how many people who are able to build the Kiora-Prism Array-Waterveil deck will be running it in the right hand node of HoD this weekend? And how many of those people will not be running it?I shall be *probably* running it, I'm not convinced any other combo deck is significantly faster, and importantly, the Waterveil deck includes Ulvenwald Hydra for defense against early damage from threats like Lightning Runner or Lannery Storm.I say *probably*, as I have just received Omniscience in the Big 2018 HOU Giveaway, so my options for OP combo decks have expanded somewhat. But maybe I'll stick with the deck I know, it keeps earning me perfects.
nerdstrap said: If we do talk specifically about Prism Array, quality plainswalker/card choice and critical gem matching will overcome every deck 90% of the time. Luck/chance will screw you 3% and poor AI design will let you win the rest. All other observations are confirmation bias until someone presents a video analysis of 1000+ matches versus Kiora + Prism Array for peer review
Matthew said: All generalizations are false!