PVP is broken

HoundofShadow · April 2018

I'm just being realistic. Let's assume a scenario without seed team given your suggestion, a fix point of 50 for win and 20 for loss.

Everyone starts at 0. There are 10 players. 3 of them know each other. Let's call them A, B, C and the rest P1 to P7.

A, B and C hit P1&P2, P3&P4, P5&P6 respectively. So, all of them got 100 points now. Then, A hits B, B hits C and C hits A.

Their total points now are:

A: 150 points
B: 100 - 20 + 50 = 130
C = 100 - 20 + 50 = 130

B and C hits A. Then, A hits B and C.

Their total points now are:
A= 150 - 20 - 20 + 50 + 50 = 210
B =130 + 50 - 20 = 160
C = 130 + 50 - 20 = 160

They can just keep doing this until they hit 5000 or even 8000 points. Besides, this scenario happened before that's why your defensive win point is low. That's why I said it's open to abuse.

Flydecoder · April 2018

But while that is happening, the random players 1-7 are also hitting them potentially... so AB&C don't get to own the game alone.

Here is where I am coming from... I am not married to this 50/20 suggestion... I just think that
1) If I battle and win in a reasonable time frame my score should go up... previously I wrote to D3 angry with the multiple hits suggesting it should be one at a time and they gave me the reasonable response that they need to provide targets and that if you could not be hit while attacking then people could start a battle and have a nap... my numbers based suggestion is that if I win my score should go up. 50/20 allowed 2.5 simultaneous hits.
2) The current best strategy to win is to not play for hours hiding behind a shield... play really quick but not too long... often just a single battle... and then hide behind a shield again... shouldnt the game play setup reward those who play? Dont you want to play?

If losses were a range of 10-30 points and wins were a range of 30-75 points then that would possibly solve this.

The argument to this could be that people would shield less so D3 would lose revenue, which they wont want to do... I bet they would make.MORE money in the purchases of Health Packs and shields.

If you dont want a game that you can play and progress then this conversation becomes pretty short... but... if you want a game where you can play more, earn rewards... then instead of saying my idea wont work... please offer a solution that will.

HoundofShadow · April 2018

I'm just giving a simplistic model. All it takes is to have a group of players to play a game of round robin "retreat to dominate". Using your system of fix win of 50 and loss of 20 (I know you are not married to these scoring yet, just an example.), a win followed by a loss results in a net gain of 30. A win will negate two losses (50-40=10). What players need to do is to go into a match with one another and then retreat. They will take turn doing this until all their characters (at least 60) dies or they would use characters with true heal. They can easily clock 1800 to 3600 points in 1 hour doing this. Instead of seeing 2000 points for top 3 or 5 in PvP, you could start see 5000 or 6000 points in PvP.

Moving on to your modified point system of loss between 10 to 30, and a win of 30 to 75, let's see what happens:

Win / Loss / net gain
30 / 10 / 20
30 / 15 / 15
30 / 20 / 10
30 / 25 / 5
30 / 30 / 0 = no difference from win-based system.

50 / 10 / 40
50 / 15 / 35
50 / 20 / 30
50 / 25 / 25
50 / 30 / 20

We could continue doing this for the rest of the number, and as long as it is a fixed point system and the net gain is positive, there is potential for abuse. Therefore, the points have to be fluid and defensive win has to be low to prevent abuse.

In a competition, it's common to see players getting paired up with opponent with similar number of wins or similar skill level. As you progress further, you will start getting paired with a more difficult opponent. Also, if a novice win a match against veteran, it creates an upset. I think it's similar to what you see in PvP.

The current system is not perfect, but I think it's ok. The top progression reward is 15 cp. You could easily get as many as 40 cp in a PvE. As you've admitted, PvE is a cakewalk. I believe that PvE has a lot of rewards to help you progress, so I don't see how not getting the 15CP in PvP prevents you from progressing.

What could possibly be done, theoretically, is to make the number of points gained gainst a much weaker team low enough to discourage the stronger attacker from attacking them. This would involve calculating the difference in levels, star levels and number of covers between both teams' characters every match and the number of points gained will be revealed after the match. The general concept would be, the more difficult opponent that you play against, the higher your points (capped) would be. Defensive win will still be low. But it could be pretty taxing on the server...

Kahmon · April 2018

Or just remove points from defensive wins and losses. Harder to abuse and much less miserable.

Flydecoder · April 2018

Removing the defensive wins and losses points would solve this.

To House, re my second suggestion (10-30 for a loss, 30-70 for a win) I was not suggesting a fixed number there

Just a Higher minimum for a win and a lower max for a loss so that if you were playing and winning, that your score would go up... basically the game as is but adjust the rewards/penalty for a win or a loss so that it was easier (not easy but easier) to climb... currently as you get near the top of your rank you go into combat for single digits (which is ludicrous) up to about 20 while getting multiple hits against you in the -20 to -50 range making the game smarter to not play

HoundofShadow · April 2018

Removing the win and loss point is good for every players, including me because I would like to have the 15CP as well. My highest PvP score was 90X.

While it's good for players, it's not good for the developers because nobody would even need to put up a single shield, unless you have a different interpretation for "Removing the defensive wins and losses points...". The way I interpret it is regardless of how many losses or wins you incurred defensively, you will gain or lose 0 point. The only way you lose points is when you attack other players and lose the match, which doesn't occur frequently. The highest number of losses I incurred when I attack other players is not more than 2 matches per PvP.

The purpose of the shield in PvP is stated as "Shields protect your points from other players' attacks in this event! Attacking other players breaks your shield!

Removing defensive win/loss points directly contradicts the purpose of a shield in PvP. Players do spend money to purchase Hero Points and one of the usage of hero points is to buy shield. I believe you can see what it could do to the sales of HP in the long run. If you're noticed, there are at least 20 players shielding themselves per PvP, with some shielding as early as the first 24 hours after the PvP has begun.

Since removing defensive win and loss points have a direct impact on the sales of HP, the other suggestion would be to introduce a Vibranium Shield or other more suitable name. In order to purchase a Vibranium Shield, you should have purchased either a Prototype (3 hours), Advanced(8 hours) or Cosmic (24 hours) shield. What Vibranium Shield does is to allow you to attack 3 other players while behind a shield. It has a cool down period of 24 or 36 hours. After attacking 3 players, it will disappear. I'm not sure what's a good figure but 600 to 1200 HP would be good.

hferg · April 2018

TPF Alexis said:

Also, the game never actually calls it PvP. That's a convention of the Player base. The technical name for them is "Versus Events", which doesn't actually specify who or what it's versus.

not to mention you never actually play another human player, you play a computer controlled version of the human player's team. It'd actually be nice to do true PVP in this game, though...

Crnch73 · April 2018

Meh. I have just learned to accept my fate. No matter what you do, there’s always a bigger dog in the yard. Just try to stay low enough to not be noticed, then bull rush at the end of the event when the big dogs are shielded.

When youre a 3* roster, you get seen by 4* rosters. When you’ve got a few 4s champed, you get seen by dual boosted 4* champs. When you get 20+ champed 4s, you’re seen by 5* rosters. I finally champed my first 5*, gambit. I have almost 50 champed 4s. Any progress I make in pvp, I get knocked down a ton by dual champed Thorbit teams. I’m getting hit for 130 points when I’m sitting at 400 points and ranked at 140 with 18 hours left. I try to have enough points to limit the amount of “bull rush” needed, but whatever. No matter how good you get, you’re not good enough.

Azoth658 · April 2018

I can honestly say I hate PvP because of the going backwards feeling. I don't care about placement which is why I personally loved the win system that was tested.

I'd be happy with two types of score one for progression rewards and one for placement. In that case hit me as much as you like.

It would also allow me to try some of my fave combinations to try and take down some 5* teams which at the moment there is no point in doing even if 75 points because the time I would lose would cause hits.

It would change nothing for shield hoppers going for placement but it would for those going for the progression tewatds

PVP is broken

Comments

Categories