Team/Character Balance

thecakeguy
thecakeguy Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
in MPQ General Discussion
Hi all,  I realize this may have been addressed previously, but I'm not a frequent visitor to the boards.  

Back when OML got hit with the nerf bat, the explanation was something along the lines of "he's used too often in battles based on our stats, so he's too good."  I'm playing at level 8-9 for PVP, and all I ever see is the Gamora/Rocket/Medusa combo.  I'm just tired of seeing the same combo over and over again.  If the logic that OML was too good based on frequency of use, shouldn't these characters get nerfed? 

Sadly, my 5* game is not to the point of being able to use a lot of 5* to battle.

I'm just curious, and sorry if this topic has already been hashed to death.
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Comments

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards
    It has been but I’ll bite anyway. 

    OML was used by everyone from 2* to 5* players as long as they had a single Yellow cover. The amount of healthpacks saved from his tank and heal plus the match damage, made him a must-use for all tiers. 

    Grocket, Gamora, Medusa are only used for trivial PVE nodes and by 4* players. Not at all the same. And as you progress through the 4* tier you instead will use and only see whoever is boosted and if it’s not one of the aforementioned 3, you won’t use them. 
  • hunky_funky
    hunky_funky Posts: 111 Tile Toppler
    Just get and use your own Gramodusa team. Problem solved.
  • JackTenrec
    JackTenrec Posts: 808 Critical Contributor
    Daredevil217 said:
    Grocket, Gamora, Medusa are only used for trivial PVE nodes and by 4* players. 
    For the trivial PVE nodes, I'd say Grocket + any Guardian (Gamora works, but she's hardly required) + any 5* is a better team.  Medusa's healing/AP generation barely comes into play when everything dies in a single match (assuming no cascades).  Got too many healthpacks in your inventory? It's Thanos time!
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards
    JackTenrec said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Grocket, Gamora, Medusa are only used for trivial PVE nodes and by 4* players. 
    For the trivial PVE nodes, I'd say Grocket + any Guardian (Gamora works, but she's hardly required) + any 5* is a better team.  Medusa's healing/AP generation barely comes into play when everything dies in a single match (assuming no cascades).  Got too many healthpacks in your inventory? It's Thanos time!
    Good point. You only really need Grocket of the three for the trivial nodes. So they only really shine in Sim. 
  • Doc L
    Doc L Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
    The 4* team of Gamora/Rocket/Medusa is not as ubiquitous as OML was - as Daredevil said, only 4* players use it, I personally don't use it, in favour of Thanos mostly, but there are many fast PvE teams I'd say. There's also a few counters to that team, in the 4* region, using the likes of Captain Marvel, though I realise they are not as quick perhaps. 

  • Qubort
    Qubort Posts: 203 Tile Toppler

    There are popular teams at each plateau. They're only frequently used at the current level you are at.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,644 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2018
    I think the issue stated with OML at the time was that he was far more useful even at 1 cover than any other character, more akin to where Gambit currently stands than 4ocket/G4mora/Medusa. I similarly tend to see loads of that team in PVP, but I can mirror match it or run a few other counters to it, and once you break through the other side of it you tend to get some variety. Usually I see it between 750-850pts in any given PVP. I actually prefer to use 5* Lord/Medusa/4ocket when I run it, because that 5* match damage will eat medusa real quick, move on to G4mora, and be on your way. If you get a decent cascade early in the match, you can get it done pretty quickly.
  • jtsings
    jtsings Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
    edited March 2018
    thecakeguy said:

    Back when OML got hit with the nerf bat, the explanation was something along the lines of "he's used too often in battles based on our stats, so he's too good."  I'm playing at level 8-9 for PVP, and all I ever see is the Gamora/Rocket/Medusa combo.  I'm just tired of seeing the same combo over and over again.  If the logic that OML was too good based on frequency of use, shouldn't these characters get nerfed
       Honestly, I understand your frustration, I have this trio all champed and I use them a lot in simulator (because honestly they are super fast and they can take little to no damage, if you play them correctly), but they are not a good regular PVP team.  All three have really, really good synergy but you take one of them out and their relationship is far less effective.  I do see Gamora and Rocket together but if you can take away some of their strike tiles right away, you'll take some damage, but it's a fairly easy win.  If you see Medusa and Rocket take Medusa out of the way first and your biggest threat is gone because R&G really don't offer much once their strike tiles are gone.  A team of Medusa and Gamora is solid because of Gamoras' cheap stun and Medusas' constant attack tile but by no means unbeatable. 

      From what I understand, there are some people that are running champed 2* Bagman (who is very bad btw) with a champed Gambit 5*, as a testament to how dominant Gambit can be in a PVP.  And from what I understand OML was able to heal his whole team quite significantly with just 1 yellow cover.  R&G, Gamora, & Medusa really need to all be champed to be the most effective and to some extent each one of them is needed to make them the efficient team that they are.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Grocket/Gamora/Medusa have been at the top of the 4-star meta for a while now, at least in the SHIELD Sim. You get used to it. I hated it too for a long while, until I learned (and champed the right characters) to counter it. Now I feast on G/G/M teams for easy climbs in the Sim using their perfect counter - Rhulk/Grocket/Carol.

    The only other time I see them in PvP (non-Sim events) is when Grocket is boosted.
  • Blindman13
    Blindman13 Posts: 504 Critical Contributor
    jtsings said:

      And from what I understand OML was able to heal his whole team quite significantly with just 1 yellow cover.  
    Sorry, but this part is incorrect.  OML only ever healed himself.
    The useful thing about him was that he healed so quickly, and his match damage was so high, that he was a one man wrecking machine for 1*-3* rosters with only a single cover. No one can say the same about any character since then (not even Gambit). 
    For Grocket/Gamora/Medusa to be useful you have to have them fully covered and leveled up. This takes an investment on the part of the player. 
  • TPF Alexis
    TPF Alexis Posts: 3,826 Chairperson of the Boards
    JackTenrec said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Grocket, Gamora, Medusa are only used for trivial PVE nodes and by 4* players. 
    For the trivial PVE nodes, I'd say Grocket + any Guardian (Gamora works, but she's hardly required) + any 5* is a better team.  Medusa's healing/AP generation barely comes into play when everything dies in a single match (assuming no cascades).  Got too many healthpacks in your inventory? It's Thanos time!
    For trivial nodes, Medusa is there for Entanglement, not Resolute Queen. Without her, if you don't get a cascade, it takes three turns to down all three characters. With her, it's never more than two.
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    5* sim = Thormericabit
    4* sim = Gamrockdusa
    3* sim = i dont know
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards
    TPF Alexis said:
    JackTenrec said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    Grocket, Gamora, Medusa are only used for trivial PVE nodes and by 4* players. 
    For the trivial PVE nodes, I'd say Grocket + any Guardian (Gamora works, but she's hardly required) + any 5* is a better team.  Medusa's healing/AP generation barely comes into play when everything dies in a single match (assuming no cascades).  Got too many healthpacks in your inventory? It's Thanos time!
    For trivial nodes, Medusa is there for Entanglement, not Resolute Queen. Without her, if you don't get a cascade, it takes three turns to down all three characters. With her, it's never more than two.
    While true, sometimes I find that even with animations off, the time it takes for her to make the tile slows me down more than having no animations go off and just matching the last enemy away. Without her we are talking one extra turn.

    Gamora is the one that’s easiest to replace as any Guardian provides what she does in trivial nodes (even a 3*). 

    Iron Fist can allow you to double dip just as easily as Medusa though his attack isn’t as strong.

    3* Thanos/Grocket is actually faster than both, but it’s a healthpack suck. 

    But it’s Grocket that really matters for trivial nodes. Which means the trios only real use is in sim, where there are plenty of counters. 
  • jtsings
    jtsings Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
    edited March 2018
    Blindman13 said:

    Sorry, but this part is incorrect.  OML only ever healed himself. 
      Thanks for the clarification I knew his healing was pretty ridiculous but since I started playing MPQ after the OML nerf, I was pretty uncertain of who or how much he could heal.
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    Trivial nodes I thought was where you release 5*Thanos on your infinite 1* fodder farm.
    Make 1 match, win
    game auto selects next set of fodder for you 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 4,088 Chairperson of the Boards
    Trivial nodes are the level 35 nodes in PVE. I don’t have 5* Thanos champed so don’t know if he can kill a person with one match. I do know that the time it would take to swap out 1* would make that team slower than Grocket. 
  • Doc L
    Doc L Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
    If you have multiple 1* of the same character, it swaps them automatically, and they heal v fast, so can replace each other quickly. He can do ~2k match damage easily in black or purple matches.
  • Jrlrma
    Jrlrma Posts: 65 Match Maker
    Hadronic said:
    5* sim = Thormericabit
    4* sim = Gamrockdusa
    3* sim = i dont know
    Cage/if/switch is pretty vicious 
    cage/if/strange is out there alot too

    (is a 3* player)
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I think the issue stated with OML at the time was that he was far more useful even at 1 cover than any other character, more akin to where Gambit currently stands than 4ocket/G4mora/Medusa. I similarly tend to see loads of that team in PVP, but I can mirror match it or run a few other counters to it, and once you break through the other side of it you tend to get some variety. Usually I see it between 750-850pts in any given PVP. I actually prefer to use 5* Lord/Medusa/4ocket when I run it, because that 5* match damage will eat medusa real quick, move on to G4mora, and be on your way. If you get a decent cascade early in the match, you can get it done pretty quickly.
    Im not trying to derail the topic into another gambit discussion but I have to point out that gambit is not used even at one cover. He dominates the higher tiers for sure but is nowhere near as useful to lower tiers as oml was.

    To the topic at hand everyone has covered it pretty well. Rocket gamora medusa are extremely effective. But there are ways to deal with them once you widen your roster a bit. And they really are only seen at the high 3 star/4 star game.

    I have a single 5 champed, Daredevil. I love seeing rocket teams because they bring him down to 50 percent faster then he shreds them.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    I have to point out that gambit is not used even at one cover. He dominates the higher tiers for sure but is nowhere near as useful to lower tiers as oml was.
    Yeah, OML was everywhere, at every level. He's still useful at 1 yellow cover for someone at the two or three star tier but his nerf did a good job of making him vanish from PvP almost entirely.

    As a contrast, I've never seen a Gambit in my 4-star MMR.

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