Dauthi wrote: Low Tier These guys should be put on the wait list for your ISO. Characters are listed in worst to best (again, in my opinion).Mr. Fantastic - 5 3 5 Offers - Stun/Protect Tiles/Green AP Generator/Healing HP - 13,934 - Average AP/damage ratios - N/A Rank 5th of low tier Mr. Fantastic can do a bit of damage, but as you can tell it is definitely not his specialty. He is a defensive support, but unlike Kamala, he only heals himself, though it is a true heal. Like Ragnarok he can stay alive, but similarly he is unimportant to keep alive. Unfortunately it only triggers when the enemy matches your special tiles, so he works best with anyone who puts out many special tiles, which unfortunately doesn't include the 4* members of the Fantastic Four for some reason (Human Torch's black might be decent, unfortunately he's a 3* and his black is meh). His only source of damage is his black, which works similar to Vision's blue adding 812 damage, except it works on all of your red/green/yellow matches then gives the countdown tile another turn. This makes it generally better than Vision's ability. His blue is actually not bad for a cheap stun that creates decent protect tiles, which unfortunately are still unwanted in the 4* realm. He is a support character that does a bad job of support and has no real use. Before writing this I tested Invisible Woman/Thing/Mr.Fantastic in Shield Training since I have them all champed. It worked OK at best, the main problem is Thing and Invisible woman just don't create special tiles to get the Fantastic Four bonus. I'm not sure what they were thinking when creating synergy with his team. Thing - 3/5 5 3/5 - Rank 1st of low tier Offers - Tank/Nuke/Protect Tiles/Shake-up/Stun HP - 17,759 - High AP/damage ratios - Red (Nuke) - 489 Black (Nuke) - 508 Thor is a Tank specialist. Just looking at his numbers in game, some may not be able to tell that his damage is low. His yellow is one of, if not the best, Tank abilities in game however, dropping 5 very strong protect tiles whenever he jumps in front of a team member. This means you will likely always have protect tiles out and your other characters will remain untouched. It also means in PVP the opponent is forced to kill Thing first, and he has a lot of HP. Defense isn't a priority in Marvel Puzzle Quest, but this is still excellent.
Dauthi wrote: Wolverine - 3/5 5 3/5 - Rank 2nd of low tier Offers - Nuke/Shake-up/Healer HP - 10,960 - Low AP/damage ratios - green (Nuke) - 170 Black (Nuke) - 639 (9 tiles) yellow (Nuke) - 400 Wolverine is a shake-up specialist, smashing the board up and creating chaotic cascades. Wolverine's bread and butter is definitely his black. It has good ap/damage ratio and creates a lot of shake-up. It destroys the opponent's strongest color, and the more tiles it destroys the more damage it does. Doing the math, the average amount of any tile on the board is 9, so this ability could do better or worse. With planning and luck he can do some great damage. His green is one of the best shake-ups in the game, cheap and effective however with just a little bit of damage. His yellow is either a great self heal, or a decent shake-up with decent damage to accompany it, depending on if your opponent matches it. This creates a problem where you sometimes don't get the effect you need. Shake-up is randomly good or terrible, depending on luck, so this Shake-up specialist revolves greatly around a gambling play style. Since his damage and effectiveness is unreliable, he can't be recommended for budding 4* players. It should be noted however that he has an outstanding combo with Deadpool's purple! If you have Deadpool already championed, X-Force can be moved from low tier to mid tier.Thing - 3/5 5 3/5 - Rank 1st of low tier Offers - Tank/Nuke/Protect Tiles/Shake-up/Stun HP - 17,759 - High AP/damage ratios - Red (Nuke) - 489 Black (Nuke) - 508 Thor is a Tank specialist. Just looking at his numbers in game, some may not be able to tell that his damage is low. His yellow is one of, if not the best, Tank abilities in game however, dropping 5 very strong protect tiles whenever he jumps in front of a team member. This means you will likely always have protect tiles out and your other characters will remain untouched. It also means in PVP the opponent is forced to kill Thing first, and he has a lot of HP. Defense isn't a priority in Marvel Puzzle Quest, but this is still excellent. Unfortunately this is where his usefulness ends. Both his red and green are basic abilities and do the same amount of damage, and it is average. It doesn't matter which of these you put 5 into, it's just a matter of do you need a red or green ability, or a stun or shake-up ability? As a new player you won't need a defense specialist. I don't know if anyone really does other than to troll people in PVP with multiple tanks
atomzed wrote: Miles and Thing as lower tier than Fury? Really? I would rate them as medium tier. Miles has a unique ap acceleration and has a good 6ap stun blast. Thing yellow makes him a good shield. It can't be that they are at the same level/ tier as elektra and Mr F.
wgasadude wrote: 1 small typo in Thing's write up - you called him Thor The other - as a transitioner with wolvy max covered the Loki, mag 3*, wolvy team is a one of my primary go-to teams. I realize this is a 4* guide, so up to you to include that kind of thing. Good work!
amusingfoo1 wrote: Miles, however, I disagree strongly. First, you need to have his yellow at four or five; at three, it's basically useless. I like to play him at 4/4/5, focusing on his red. I have friends who prefer him at 5/5/3, ignoring his red. Either is effective. How good? He almost single-handedly won me two different heroics in the last six months or so. One minor note about XFW is that his health points greatly limit his usefulness in PvP. Thing? Yeah, even boosted he's only ok. I'd rate him over Fury, and a few others, but not many. I like his abilities, but they're definitely too expensive.Edit: I forgot to mention; Wasp belongs somewhere down here in the bottom tier. She's terrible; there's a reason I use her in my grills. Drax, probably, too. Maybe Agent Venom as well. Haven't played the latter two enough to be sure.
DFiPL wrote: You haven't commented yet on Invisible Woman, but whether you go 5/3/5, 3/5/5, or 4/4/5, her yellow and blue can combine for four special tiles per paired use, and at 7 and 8 AP respectively, she can do so inexpensively. The issue isn't that there aren't enough special tiles on the board; the issue is that Mr. Fantastic's yellow passive just doesn't do much for the team as a whole. Most of the benefit is directed towards Reed himself. Whether you run his passive at 3 covers or at 5, he generates the same amount of green AP per Fantastic Four teammate per special tile destroyed. So while you're correct that the synergy is poor, it isn't because of a lack of special tiles created. Second criticism is more of a question; if Elektra is scary to face, how can she be low-tier?
STOPTHIS wrote: Just because it's bugging my fake OCD, I wanted to point out that Wolverine's green is red coloring and Thing's black is in green coloring. You also call Thing Thor.
Shmoe50 wrote: Thanks for all of your work! As someone just transitioning into 4* land, I did not regret getting the 13 covers for Dino Dinosaur, and levelling him to 270. His damage and tank ability were very useful at the time, and I still use him in PvE quite a bit. Totally agree on Howard, though!
Dauthi wrote: The main problem isn't that Dino isn't good, it's that he is never buffed and never featured in Clash of the Titans. When a character get's buffed their damage/ap goes through the roof. Even bad characters become good. Because of that, if someone is a new 4* player they need to aim for he best 4*s, or at the very least the ones that will be buffed and featured in Clash of the Titans.
Dauthi wrote: I just don't see the need for a 1 turn stun unless the other team is down to 1 character left.
Even then it's just kind of nice to have, but I would rather have more damage, and the ap/damage ratio is barely above average I would say at this point. I would agree it is his best skill though, which is sad. It is essentially Thing's red but with more damage to compensate for 1 less turn of stun.
Do NOT collect Howard the Duck or Devil Dino. These characters are never buffed or featured in Clash of the Titans because they are souvenir/collectibles. Yes I know they may be featured once a year, but we get what I mean
Lemminkäinen wrote: Dauthi wrote: I just don't see the need for a 1 turn stun unless the other team is down to 1 character left. It can stop abilities that fire off of enemy abilities firing so stuff like Dr. Strange or Starlord as well as stuff that happens when a character takes damage like 3*Danvers or Thing/3*4*Deadpool when done in conjunction with another ability. Also, since AI fires off abilities when it can, if the enemy team has two abilities with similar costs, you can dictate which one they fire by stunning the other guy. This can be a lifesaver in PvP where you often have a 3* with lackluster abilities and then horrible stuff coming from two boosted four-stars. So stun the four-star and let the 3-star waste the AP. Miles' red is surprisingly versatile when you use it well. Even then it's just kind of nice to have, but I would rather have more damage, and the ap/damage ratio is barely above average I would say at this point. I would agree it is his best skill though, which is sad. It is essentially Thing's red but with more damage to compensate for 1 less turn of stun. His yellow and purple can function as pretty nice batteries. Not quite IM40 level but surprisingly good. I rate Miles better than you do as he is fast.
Magic wrote: 1. The reality of the current meta is the 4* should be regarded and graded only in the boosted form (for PvP). Any boosted 4* when championed outshines unboosted top ones. I get that 270 Iceman is potent (his blue still does 8k damage and takes out an enemy for 4 turns) but 370 Miles is just better. But you would never take Miles over Ice at 270 each. I might be wrong here but my experience (the allseeing eye test) tells me so. I always pick the boosted 4* in PvP and find a combo for them.
2. Thing - Should be higher up (even if you only rank 4* you have). His health when boosted is a problem for opps and he can do heavy damage. Paired with Jean in tex-mex PvP got me the highest amount of defensive victories in recent memory. Granted that team relied on Deadpool red and Jean's purple more but having Thing there saved the day more then once on offense as well.
3. Wolverine is not as bad as you picture him (his Black is still amazing even if nowhere near the prime time). I have him championed just recently and couple of weeks ago he was boosted in PvE. He was a key to get good result. Of course he plays best with 4*Deadpool but this combo alone should justify a better grade. When both are boosted in the same week they are a formidable duo.
6. Ghost Rider - i regard him bottom of the barrel. And the main reason is that he has one good skill and it's independent of levels - just needs 5 covers. So why not take his Teamup (even 3 of them) and use somebody else in his place that can provide something more useful. Having in mind his limited usability (red and green are just trash) I am tempted to rank him as the very bottom of the 4* realm. Boosted MrFantastic can be dangerous when he gets going (same for Electra). Him - not much more then unboosted.
GrumpySmurf1002 wrote: I appreciate the work that goes into something like this and understand it's opinion based. That said, given your early results, I think your rankings already fall distantly behind the two already in existence:viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56176viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56249 I have my own individual qualms with each of those, but no one in those tiers seems shockingly out of place. I can't say the same here, though the fact you're only rating about 50% of the tier may be the cause.
Dauthi wrote: As far as I know at the start of the AI's turn, if there are multiple abilities of the same color, it will pick one randomly to try to use. If it does not have enough AP it will save for it. It does the same thing the next turn and the next. So yes, stunning may save you, or you may be in the same situation next turn when they fire the ability anyways.
Dauthi wrote: Magic wrote: 1. The reality of the current meta is the 4* should be regarded and graded only in the boosted form (for PvP). Any boosted 4* when championed outshines unboosted top ones. I get that 270 Iceman is potent (his blue still does 8k damage and takes out an enemy for 4 turns) but 370 Miles is just better. But you would never take Miles over Ice at 270 each. I might be wrong here but my experience (the allseeing eye test) tells me so. I always pick the boosted 4* in PvP and find a combo for them. If you have a choice to champion Iceman or Miles, I hope you choose Iceman. That is what this guide is for. Yes, any unboosted champion is going to be worse than a boosted, but let's say both Miles and Iceman are boosted one week, and you chose Miles, you are going to be chosen to be attacked long before Iceman so PVP will be rough. On offensive you will find mowing down other boosted 4*s much easier with Iceman than Miles too.
Dauthi wrote: I am also trying to give as much hard facts like damage numbers for characters to prove it, unlike other rankings/guides. For instance, while you can't exactly calculate Thing's yellow worth, I am surprised so many people think his red/green are good. As I add more characters I hope to show everyone that 400-500 damage/ap is low/average. Maybe because he is so big and buff looking when he makes a punch animation people are more impressed? It's pretty interesting.
Quebbster wrote: Dauthi wrote: As far as I know at the start of the AI's turn, if there are multiple abilities of the same color, it will pick one randomly to try to use. If it does not have enough AP it will save for it. It does the same thing the next turn and the next. So yes, stunning may save you, or you may be in the same situation next turn when they fire the ability anyways. As I understand the AI, if it has enough AP to use the most expensive ability in a color they will use that ability, no ifs and buts about it. It can be quite interesting when you play against say Hulkbuster with Another red user - Hulkbuster goes into Overdrive so GSBW can fire her Pistol! If the AI does not have enough AP to use the most expensive ability but can use a less expensive ability, it's basically a coin flip each turn to see if it will use the less expensive ability or save the AP for later.
Fightmastermpq wrote: Dauthi wrote: Magic wrote: 1. The reality of the current meta is the 4* should be regarded and graded only in the boosted form (for PvP). Any boosted 4* when championed outshines unboosted top ones. I get that 270 Iceman is potent (his blue still does 8k damage and takes out an enemy for 4 turns) but 370 Miles is just better. But you would never take Miles over Ice at 270 each. I might be wrong here but my experience (the allseeing eye test) tells me so. I always pick the boosted 4* in PvP and find a combo for them. If you have a choice to champion Iceman or Miles, I hope you choose Iceman. That is what this guide is for. Yes, any unboosted champion is going to be worse than a boosted, but let's say both Miles and Iceman are boosted one week, and you chose Miles, you are going to be chosen to be attacked long before Iceman so PVP will be rough. On offensive you will find mowing down other boosted 4*s much easier with Iceman than Miles too. This isn't always the case though. Boosted Thing hits like a truck. He is boosted right now and his red and green both hit for 5* damage levels with modifiers. This value doesn't quite carry over to characters like Fury, or Ghost Rider who you have ranked higher. Ant-Man is another good example of a pretty solid 4* character that loses a lot of value because he doesn't boost well. On the other hand, someone like Flaptain is regarded as bottom tier, but boosted that Yellow->Red combo can really ruin someone's day. How a character scales with boosting should be a HUGE consideration when determining 4* champ order - especially when you consider higher tier play where an unboosted 4* suddenly makes your defensive powerhouse a cupcake.
GrumpySmurf1002 wrote: Dauthi wrote: I am also trying to give as much hard facts like damage numbers for characters to prove it, unlike other rankings/guides. For instance, while you can't exactly calculate Thing's yellow worth, I am surprised so many people think his red/green are good. As I add more characters I hope to show everyone that 400-500 damage/ap is low/average. Maybe because he is so big and buff looking when he makes a punch animation people are more impressed? It's pretty interesting. One of the things with Thing is he alters the way you have to attack, which has intangible value. Especially when boosted, you can't target your nukes on anyone but him until he's whittled down. The value of his red also goes beyond just the damage, a 2-turn stun has value. That's slightly more tangible but still is outside the numbers of just damage/AP. It's also not exactly a 1 to 1 comparison when looking at AoE vs Single target. Listing's GR's green as 603 per AP is accurate only with 3 opponents active, and even then it's not necessarily the preferable option to Thing's green in different game states. So overall I think having Thing as a "last to champ" tier isn't a correct eval, especially when you have (generally accepted as) weaker characters like Fury and GR ahead of him. At this point though I'll let the list play out. I really just wanted to note the other two rankings, so a 3* transitioner is aware of the other options and make an informed decision based on all of them, including this one.
amusingfoo1 wrote: A couple comments on the last few. Ghost Rider isn't a great candidate for being champed early, as his best ability, by far, is level-independent on damage. And X-23's regeneration depends on her tanking her colors, so her best build depends on team. If she only tanks one color, you definitely want her to have five in red. And my luck with her purple has been far worse than yours. Maybe half the time it's been triggered, in my usage. I never use her without five green. There's some variation with the other two, but it's mostly 5/5/3.