Dauthi's 4* Guide - So You've Made it This Far!

DauthiDauthi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
edited April 2017 in MPQ Tips and Guides
Under Construction
***UPDATES***

3/17 - Added Kate Bishop
- Finally finished Peggy, it was difficult (I had 3 reds when I needed a blue) but thanks to bonus heroes it all worked out : D

3/8 - Added Iceman and Peggy
- Championed Spider-Gwen, Quake, and Hawkeye. Will need to play test them, expect them to be the next to be added.

3/7 - Added Red Hulk, Cyclops and Hulkbuster
- Added an HP guide (HP definitions)

2/19 - Added Jean Grey, Punisher and his video

2/18 - Added Kingpin, Thor, and Nova

2/13 - Added a Totally Awesome Hulk video


With 28 championed 4* characters I feel I can finally give a decent guide on the 4* realm. Feel free to debate or give opinions, in the case of my 3* guide many of my views changed based on the opinions of others. Remember my rating is largely based on new 4* players, these players are less worried about synergy, and more worried about a character that will always be good in any situation paired with any other character.

Characters I Have not Championed so probably won't rate just yet

Venom (Done), Drax (Done), Spider-Gwen (Done), Kate Bishop (Done), Quake (Done), Winter Soldier, Medusa, Wasp, Blade, War Machine, Captain Marvel, Spider-Woman, Moon Knight, Agent Venom, Gwenpool

I only champion if I have a cover in queue for that champion, generating a farm is more important to me at this point than champing the strongest since I always have many options.

Glossary

Damage/AP ratio = This is how much damage you get for spending 1ap. The higher this number, the better the raw damage power of any ability is. AOE's will tend to be higher as they damage 3 characters at once, but keep in mind they will be a lot lower if they damage less than 3 enemies.
Tile Strength/AP ratio = How strong the special tiles that are dropped as a whole per AP you spend.

Special Tiles = Countdown, Attack, Protect, or strike tiles
Countdown Tiles = Tiles that count down every turn, unleashing an effect at 0
Attack Tiles = Does damage at the end of your turn
Strike Tiles = Adds damage to your matches
Protect Tiles = Reduces all damage against you

These tags can help you form a team, try hitting CTRL F on your keyboard and search for them to go directly to Characters tagged as such if you are looking for one.

Airborn = Stuns an opponent (or self) however character cannot be harmed.
AOE = Area of effect, damages multiple characters at once.
AP Drain = Steals opponents AP.
AP Reduction = Reduces opponents AP.
AP Generator = Generates AP for the team.
AP Shake-up = Shake-up that gives AP for tiles destroyed.
Cost Reduction = Reduces cost of abilities.
Fortifies = Fortifies tiles.
Healing = Heals self or others
Invisibility = Creates a tile that makes their self or others invisible, becoming only succeptible to AOE attacks
Nuke = Single target damage.
Shake-up = Destroys tiles, "shaking up" the board.
Swap = Swaps tiles.
Tank = Character jumps in front to protect others.
Tile steal = Steals special tiles.
Tile Remove = Removes special tiles.
Tile Buff = Increases strength of special tiles or reduces countdown timers.
Tile Nuke = Performs a nuke when opponent matches the tile.
Turn Damage = Performs a nuke at the start of your turn.
(X) Production = Creates color (X) on board.
(X) Charge Tile = Creates a charge tile of color (X) Charge tiles do triple damage and give 3 of that color when matched.

HP Definitions

Low
9,000 to 10,050
Below Average - 10,051 to 13,000
Average
13,001 to 14,500
Above Average - 14,501 to 16,000
High
16,001 to 17,500
Very High
17,501 to 19,000

Categories are in ascending order, and each category is ranked in ascending order of how good a character is generally. This is to give you a better idea when making decisions against two characters, so the further down this list the 4* you want to champion is, the better your decision icon_e_biggrin.gif

Disclaimer - These are opinions, though I believe much of this is generally agreed upon.

Do NOT collect Howard the Duck or Devil Dino unless you have plenty of HP. These characters are never buffed or featured in Clash of the Titans because they are souvenir/collectibles. They may be featured once or twice a year, but if you have to make a cut, cut them first.

Low Tier

These guys should be put on the wait list for your ISO. Characters are listed in worst to best (again, in my opinion).


icon_elektra.png Elektra - purpleflag.png 5 blackflag.png 3 redflag.png 5 - Rank 2nd of low tier

Offers - Turn Nuke/Tile Steal/Tile Nuke/Countdown Tiles
HP - 13,974 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Turn Nuke) - 468 (3 Turns) 935 (6 turns) (Nuke) - 185 (2 protects) 462 (all 5 protects)

Elektra is a strike tile stealing specialist, plain and simple. While she is amazing at doing this, stealing up to 3 strike tiles and improving them by 245 for only 7 purple, a new 4* player should focus on the characters who are generally good, not good in specific situations.

Her black is fun, negating all damage to Elektra when attacked then nuking the opponent, but the damage is minimal and these traps can get matched away. If it protected the entire team, this would be a grade A ability. At 3 it still drops 3 tiles and I feel at 5 you will usually get one or two matched away anyways.

Her red which is decent, I feel if you farm red then drop her ability, it will likely go off at least 3 times, on average you will get around 6 nukes out of it. Since this ability is all about chance however, other characters who can do similar damage with no chance are more valuable.

She can be very dangerous against anyone who drops good strike tiles, but other than that she isn't very threatening.


icon_wolverine.png Wolverine - greenflag.png 3/5 blackflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3/5 - Rank 1st of low tier

Offers - Nuke/Shake-up/Healer
HP - 10,960 - Below Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 170 (Nuke) - 639 (9 tiles) (Nuke) - 400

Wolverine is a shake-up specialist, smashing the board up and creating chaotic cascades.

Wolverine's black has a decent ap/damage ratio and creates a lot of shake-up. It destroys the opponent's strongest color, and the more tiles it destroys the more damage it does. Doing the math, the average amount of any tile on the board is 9, so this ability could do better or worse. With planning and luck he can do some great damage.

His green a great shake-up, cheap and effective but doesn't compensate for the fact that the damage is extremely low.

His yellow is either a great self heal, or a decent shake-up with below average damage to accompany it, depending on if your opponent matches it. This creates a problem where you sometimes don't get the effect you need. Every wolverine except this version has a good heal, i'm not sure what happened here.

Shake-up is randomly good or terrible, depending on luck, so this Shake-up specialist revolves greatly around a gambling play style. Since his damage and effectiveness is unreliable, and his HP is low, he can't be recommended for budding 4* players. You also can't play special tile generators with him because he will likely destroy them, limiting your team options.

If you already have Deadpool you should champion X-Force due to an outstanding combo with Deadpool's purple. Another nice combo is X-Force, 3* Magneto, and Loki. Those three are great at creating cascades, and when you combine them you can get a near infinite loop going.


Mid Tier

These guys are meh, so dump ISO into them only if you really want to or have a combo. Characters are listed worst to best (again, in my opinion).


icon_nickfury.png Nick Fury - yellowflag.png 3 blueflag.png 5 purpleflag.png 5 - Rank 9th of mid tier

Offers - Nuke/AOE/Tile Nuke/Protect Tiles/Strike Tiles/Critical Tiles/Stun/AP Steal
HP - 13,974 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 340 (AOE) 566 (Nuke) - up to 1053 (all traps) (Nuke) - 317
Tiles Strength/AP - Strike - 53 Protect - 27

Yellow takes a lot of setup and tries to do a lot, and does all of it weakly. It drops a nuke,aoe, critical tiles, and protect tiles if you have five AP in 5 specific colors. It typically isn't worth it when you have other characters waiting to use that AP though.

His purple does low damage, however it drains 9 AP of the enemies strongest color stopping their attacks and paying back some of the iso you spent playing it. It also drops a single very strong strike tile on a random tile, which is a huge benefit. At 5 you only have to wait 2 turns for it to go off, and this is a big deal. You want this countdown to go off.

The real reason he is in mid tier is that amazing blue of his though. If you avoid matching the trap tiles you will almost always get the full damage when the opponent does match it, because matching them yourself gives you substantially less damage. It is nice however for emergency nuke damage if needed. I'm not sure how widely known this is, but if the enemy matches two traps in a single match, the damage of the blue goes off twice. That means he can unload the full trap damage downing the first opponent, then unload the same amount of damage on the guy behind him. Neat.

icon_falcon.pngSam Wilson - yellowflag.png 5 blueflag.png 3 redflag.png 5 - Rank 8th of mid tier

Offers - Nuke/Protect Tiles/Tile Buff
HP - 13,934 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 608 (6 tiles) or 753 (9 tiles)
Tiles Strength/AP - Protect 139 (average 9 tiles)

I have factored in the AP cost of Falcon's yellow in the ap/damage ratios.

Not only does Sam drop moderate protect tiles on all yellow tiles making it quite strong, his red is boosted by every protect tile on the board. The average amount of any color on the board is 9, but if you are farming yellow you might have it below average at around 6, so both numbers are up there. This combo is pretty good, the only reason I put Sam down so far is that he is more of a support than a carry thanks to his yellow and blue. His blue is just to support characters who have countdown tiles by reducing their timer, or characters who drop special tiles by buffing them when you match blue.

He's actually not that bad if you want to pair him with someone who drops countdown tiles, or even special tiles. As a new player however, you may not have anyone for him to help, so consider that before championing him.

icon_hulkcho.pngTotally Awesome Hulk - greenflag.png 3/5 blueflag.png 5 blackflag.png 3/5 - Rank 7th of mid tier

Offers - Nuke/Shake-up/Countdown Tiles/Green Production/Green Charge Tiles/Blue Charge Tiles/Healing
HP - 18,442 - Very High
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 393 (without blue) or 699 (with 12 blue)

Totally Awesome Hulk's specialty is creating green through is blue ability, ensuring he or someone who is great with green will be able to fire off their ability consistently. At first glace 4 green tiles doesn't seem like much, but it ensures the board is saturated with green. The damage it also gives off is low, being about the consistency of a mediocre attack tile, but it is more of a nice bonus than anything. Even if you don't use him with someone with a better green, his green is really strong when fired at 12 blue AP, and it shake's the board up! If it wasn't for this, I wouldn't recommend him as a mid tier.

While his black gains him a boost of health, it is the charged tile conversion that can be helpful for further support. It produces even more green AP, as well as some blue. The only reason you would go 5 on blue and 5 on black is to do this, support a character's green, or maybe even blue ability. This makes hulk a strong support.

Note if you have Red Hulk, Totally awesome Hulk pairs extremely well. He fuels Red Hulks already very strong green while sitting back and healing himself, and the two of them have massive HP. I made a video of this so you can check it out for yourself!

Watch the video here


icon_mrfantastic.png Mr. Fantastic - blueflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3 blackflag.png 5

Offers - Stun/Protect Tiles/Countdown Tiles/Green AP Generator/Healing
HP - 13,934 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - N/A Rank 6th of mid tier
Tiles Strength/AP - Protect 154

Mr. Fantastic can push out a bit of damage with his black, but his other abilities offer support and utility making him more well rounded than a power house.

Yellow only triggers when the enemy matches your special tiles, so this ability is near useless unless you do. If you can match him with someone who does he will consistently heal the entire team. He also gives 3 green if you have a Fantastic Four member on your team, which would be great if any of them put out a significant amount of special tiles on the board. Max this one out only if you have a combo for it.

His only source of damage is his black, which works similar to Vision's blue adding 960 damage, except it works on all of your red/green/yellow matches then adds another turn to the countdown. It also comes in fortified giving it some insurance it will stay and do it's job for awhile. It's like having a strong attack tile go off sometimes, but if you get lucky and cascade it can do significant damage.

His blue is adds a great amount of utility allowing you to either hide the 2 strong fortified protect tiles, or use them to create a cascade or eliminate opposing tiles. I would say this is probably his best ability

He works well with Carnage and Medusa, however since I don't have Medusa finished I can't personally confirm this. I tested him out with Carnage and Invisible Woman though, since you can at least get the added green bonus this way. It worked alright, here is the results:

Watch the video here.


icon_ghostrider.png Ghost Rider - greenflag.png 3/5 redflag.png 3/5 blackflag.png 5 - Rank 5th of mid tier

Offers - Nuke/AOE/Countdown Tiles/Attack Tiles
HP - 15,573 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (AOE) - 603 or 804 (6 attack tiles) (Nuke) - 452 (2 turns) or 905 (4 turns) or 543 (2 turns) 1086 (4 turns) (if other team is evil)
Tiles Strength/AP - Attack 43 29

Ghost Rider's problem is he is trying to do too many things with his red and green. He is under-appreciated because his damage is spread across all different kinds of outlets making the damage look low in every outlet. Even considering this, these 2 abilities are just average at best. His black is an amazing nuke however, which puts him up higher on this list.

His green will create 2 decent attack tiles, and toss out a baby AOE that gets stronger if you have at least 6 attack tiles out. His red spawns weak 235 attack tiles similar to Punisher's Molotov every 2 turns, but also does a small nuke every 2 turns that are improved if the other team is mostly evil. These aren't great abilities, but they aren't bad, very middle of the road I would say.

What makes him shine is his black. Every bit of damage one of your opponents dish at any of your characters, including match damage, is doubled and shot right back into their face with this ability. You would be surprised how fast this can stack, and can turn the tables if you are caught off guard by a strong ability. It is especially effective against an opponent who just fired off an AOE, as all 3 packets of damage are added up, doubled, then thrown back at the caster.

Note, this is a great character to share as a team-up. Ghost Rider black is coveted at all levels of play because of it's adaptability. Also during events like Ultron, Civil War and Galactus etc where you fight against a boss, if you team ghostrider up with any high HP characters you can let them get injured and one shot the boss.

icon_carnage.png Carnage - redflag.png 5 blackflag.png 3/5 greenflag.png 3/5 - Rank 4th of mid tier

Offers - Nuke/AOE/Attack Tiles/Shake-up
HP - 15,573 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 355 (6 tiles destroyed) or 532 (9 tiles destroyed) (AOE) - 1217

Carnage has an amazing AOE, low cost and good numbers, unfortunately you also hit your other members of your team too. It's still a great ability to end matches faster, but at the cost of health packs. His black creates 2 attack tiles for your team and the other team every time anyone uses an ability, at 3 yours are slightly stronger, but at 5 they are moderately stronger. It won't seem like much, but as he drops them over and over they do add up. Again however, this ability will consume health packs while accelerating the match.

His green is a decent shake-up and damages based on how many special tiles you destroy with it. You will typically hit around 6 if you wait for the board to get saturated with attack tiles, and as you can see the damage is pretty minimal. I wouldn't advise using his green unless you flat out don't have one. I usually roll with 5 black because of this.

If you fight a Carnage, you aren't coming out unscathed. His red costs 7, and his HP is above average, so chances are he is going to hit you once with that, as well as getting hit every turn with attack tiles. This makes him a good scarecrow while climbing.

He works great with Mr. Fantastic who can heal up damage Carnage does to your team consistently. I can't stress enough however how miserably slow every fight feels with him, especially with or against characters who have low AP cost abilities though.

icon_thing.png Thing - redflag.png 3/5 yellowflag.png 5 greenflag.png 3/5 - Rank 3rd of mid tier

Offers - Tank/Nuke/Protect Tiles/Shake-up/Stun
HP - 17,759 - Very High
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 489 (Nuke) - 508

Thing is a Tank specialist. I can't stress enough that he is only as useful as those you hide behind him. If you put a buffed 4* behind him, he is phenomenal. I would highly advise you to champion him if you already have around 20+ championed 4*s already.

His yellow is one of, if not the best, Tank abilities in game however by dropping 5 very strong protect tiles whenever he jumps in front of a team member. This means you will likely always have protect tiles out and your other characters will remain untouched. It also means in PVP the opponent is forced to kill Thing first, and he has a lot of HP. Defense isn't a priority in Marvel Puzzle Quest, but this is still excellent.

Like all tank abilities however, it gets worse the higher level the character is, so if Thing is buffed it is possible some high powered attacks, like matches enhanced with strike tiles, will get by him killing your squishy characters.

Both his red and green are basic abilities and do the same amount of damage, and it is average. It doesn't matter which of these you put 5 into, it's just a matter of do you need a red or green ability, or a stun or shake-up ability?

icon_starlord.png Star Lord - purpleflag.png 3 yellowflag.png 5 redflag.png 5 Rank 2nd of mid tier

Offers - Nuke/Tile Nuke/Cost Reduction
HP - 13,995 - Average
Damage/AP ratios- (Nuke) - 776 (3 tiles) 1215 (6 tiles) (AOE) - 789

Star Lord is an amazing support, but only really shines in PVE. He is a joke when the AI controls him, making him an easy target in PVP, and his support is pretty lack luster when you use him in PVP. This is why he is in Mid Tier, champion if you play a lot of PVE, but keep in mind you won't make much headway in PVP.

Starlord's yellow reduces your team's abilities by 2 whenever an enemy uses an ability. This doesn't sound great until you use him against henchmen in PVE, because it triggers every time any of them drop a countdown tile. This guarantees all your abilities will cost 2 less AP the entire game, and you gain access to constant flow of random AP.

His red compounds upon this because it gets ridiculously stronger for every countdown on the board, this counts henchmen's as well. This turns his red into one of the best nukes in the game against henchmen.

His purple is pretty lackluster, it's damage for an AOE isn't great, but you can remove enemy special tiles using it. It can also combo with red, if you play it first guaranteeing 3 countdown tiles. The problem is purple isn't really that great and you will be forced to put it at 5 sacrificing the other two great abilities.


icon_invisiblewoman.png Invisible Woman - yellowflag.png 5/3 blueflag.png 5/3 greenflag.png 5 - Rank 1st of mid tier

Offers - Nuke/Strike Tiles/Tile Remove/Invisiblility
HP - 13,015 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 830 or 480 (4 or more bubbles)
Tiles Strength/AP - Strike 71 Protect - 68

At first glance Invisible Woman's green seems great, the damage is impressive, the problem is it's virtually the only damage she has. Not only that, if you use green or blue once and there are special tiles that get bubbled, her green becomes useless as a damage dealer (as seen in the damage/AP ratio).

Her blue has good utility by bubbling 4 special tiles making them useless, while creating strike tiles. Her Tile Strength/AP is pretty good on them, and you get to lock out enemy special tiles rendering them null too. It's a nice package for PVE since it locks out countdown tiles.

Her yellow can save you in a pinch by turning everyone invisible, which is kinda cool. However if you are going to champion someone, you should really champion someone who can carry your weaker team, not try to support the weaker team. It also drops good shield tiles.

Invisible woman has a lot of utility and support, which is fun if you have a lot of 4*s for her to assist, but not as fun if she is one of your initial 4*s. You would be relying on her green (which isn't reliable if you are using blue) and strike tiles to do damage.

High Tier

If you have any of these characters, you should champion them. Characters are listed in worst to best (again, in my opinion).

icon_antman.png Ant Man - purpleflag.png 5 blueflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3 - Rank 8th of high tier

Offers - Attack Tiles/Tile Nuke/Tile Steal
HP - 14,890 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Tile Nuke) - 336 (3 tiles) or 559 5 tiles (Nuke) - 555 (Nuke) - 1140
Tile Strength/AP - Strike - 39 (3 tiles) or 65 (5 tiles) Attack - 171+ (9 tile average)

Antman's purple is strong, as you can see from the numbers, and this is mainly why his rank is high. His blue offers top tier support, and his yellow has it's uses.

Let's get right to his purple, even the numbers can't really describe how great it us unfortunately because it continues to make attack tiles infinitely. I was even stingy in saying it would only make at least 9 attack tiles. His trap tile will fill every purple with attack tiles every turn until it is caught, and this hurts a lot over time. If you cast the skill a second time while this trap tile is out, he will perform a massive nuke. This won't happen every time, but if the trap tile gets hidden well it will. When you cast the nuke, it destroys the trap tile so make sure to let it cover the board in attack tiles first.

His blue countdown tile steals 3 special tiles every turn over the course of 5 turns. This makes it one of the best tile steals in game because it will continue to work through the duration as long as it is in play. This means for the next 5 turns you are going to own all the special tiles on the board, even when new ones are created. Blue has a nuke similar to purple, unfortunately you are unlikely to get 9 blue within 5 turns. Like purple you will destroy the countdown tile when you use it. This means you have to wait until the final turn, or for it to convert all tiles you want before using the nuke, giving the ability less freedom.

His yellow isn't as good compared to the other two. The total damage is pretty low as you can see from the numbers, and the strikes are average. However this is one of the few abilities that has damage that activates independently at the start of a turn. This means his yellow and purple pair him well with anyone who drops good strike tiles, because it will use the strike damage for the attack tiles which will always be on the board, and at the start with this yellow ability too. It also is great for eliminating red off of the board.

Antman can hold his own thanks to his purple, and his blue becomes useful against many characters since it steals all types of tiles, especially since most characters drop some type of tile these days.

icon_x23.png X-23 - greenflag.png 3/5 redflag.png 3/5 purpleflag.png 3/5 - Rank 7th of high tier

Offers - Nuke/Strike Tiles/Tile Nuke/Healing
HP - 13,934 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 570 (Tile Nuke) - 949+ (enemy matches) or 633+ (you match)
Tiles Strength/AP - Strike -60 37 or 75 (6 strike tiles on board)

X-23 sneaks into High Tier because her numbers are pretty good overall, but mostly because she is great for saving health packs or tanking for other characters.

Her Green has above average damage, but can also drop 2 good strike tiles if you cast it one time with 9 red ap saved. It doesn't consume the AP which is nice, and you only have to do it once. Honestly though, you aren't likely to cast this skill more than 3 times, and that is if you are lucky. Still, it is a decent skill.

Her purple on the other hand has a lot of damage as you can see from the numbers, however if there are strike tiles on the board the numbers get crazy high. I have rarely found that this tile doesn't get matched by myself or my opponent during a round, and either way is great because even if you match it it will drop a very strong strike tile. The problem with this ability is you never know when or if it will go off, making it unreliable damage.

Finally, her bread and butter, healing. Every time you match her colors, green red or purple, she heals for 1520, which is quite a bit when considering how often it will trigger. This will save you lots of health packs, keep in mind though she has to be the strongest in that color for it to work, in other words the color has to have her symbol. However you want to spec her is up to you for the most part, save health packs or deal damage.

Note that she pairs well with anyone who drops a decent amount of strike tiles, for instance Daken who can also heal saving you even more health packs.


icon_miles.png Miles Morales ---Miles Update - purpleflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 5 redflag.png 3 - Rank 6th of high tier

Offers - Nuke/Invisibility/AP Generator
HP - 13,934 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 545 (Nuke) - 716 (5 web tiles) 654 (5 web tiles + 4 web tiles from yellow)

I have factored in the cost of Miles yellow in the damage/AP ratio for his purple.

Miles yellow drops 4 web tiles for 8 ap, and when one is matched you receive 1 blue, red and purple ap. This is a total of 12 ap and since it is spread across 3 colors it becomes less useful as other AP generators that create one color consistently. Since these tiles increase the damage of his purple, this can be seen as improving the AP/Damage ratio of this combo. I wouldn't call him an AP generator, but this is definitely some nice icing on the cake.

His purple makes him invisible which can be useful in some situations, but using his purple twice does some great raw damage, and when you use his yellow first for bonus damage you get to sprinkle the board with some bonus AP making his AP/Damage ratio go up.

His red is a basic but decent damage and stun, however I feel his bread and butter is his yellow purple combo. If you don't need yellow and purple but need a red, it's decent enough though.

Take into consideration however web tile creators can increase other spidey characters power by a substantial amount too. I haven't looked into it really, but 3 spidey characters are probably a viable combo.


icon_deadpool.png Deadpool - redflag.png 5 blackflag.png 3 purpleflag.png 5 - Rank 5th of high tier

Offers - Nuke/Tile Nuke/Healing
HP - 13,934 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 590 (Tile Nuke) - 1296 (all tiles matched) or 648 (3 tiles matched)

Deadpool's red damage/ap ratio seems a bit low, but that is because it comes with a 4,500 true heal. This allows him to deal competent damage and save you healthpacks.

His black makes almost makes him a tank by dropping a countdown nuke that goes of next turn if his teammates are hit with enough damage. This forces players to either attack him or take damage. On the offensive it serves as a random nuke, serving out some free damage. If you have a better red, definitely put this at 5, otherwise his red at 5 is much more useful.

I wouldn't advise using him unless you plan to utilize his purple because it does some amazing damage. Deadpool drops tile nukes on 6 of the enemy's strongest color, ensuring they will target them. It's true you are unlikely to get them all to go off, I find myself typically getting 4 to go off, but even if you get 3 to go off the damage/ap is still good as you can see above.

Wolverine's black destroys all of the enemy's strongest color, making Deadpool's purple 100% effective. If you have Wolverine finished, I would recommend championing Deadpool.


icon_professorx.png Professor X - blueflag.png 3 purpleflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 5 - Rank 4th of high tier

Offers - Nuke/Strike Tiles/Attack Tiles/Protect Tiles/Tile Buff/Invisibility
HP - 9,590 - Low
Damage/AP ratios - N/A

Professor X's blue is what he is most notorious for, doing 4.4k damage and giving you 4 of your strongest color when you make a 5 match. This makes him very strong when paired with characters who create 5 matches like Grey Suit Black Widow. Unfortunately if you champion him, likely your strongest color will be his, blue. This means if you max this color out to create combos, keep that in mind.

It's all about his purple and yellow that make him deadly. His purple drops an invisible tile, and while invisible if he makes a match he buffs 4 tiles by 252. That's an increase of 1000 by making a match to your damage (unless you have shields out). That is no joke. Do not save him for last, this will mean if he goes invisible and there is one strike or attack tile out, he will buff it with every match he makes. If there are a lot of special tiles, good luck. On the offensive this means you will rarely die with him on the team.

Likely there will be plenty of special tiles if you max his yellow, which drops a shield, attack, and strike tile when any other team mates play an ability. It can only drop attack tiles at 4, then strike tiles at 5 however.

Professor X is a character I use consistently, and he works amazing in survival nodes in PVE since he will buff tiles over the course of many fights rather than just one, making him put out and shield insane amounts of damage.

As stated above, you should always kill him first in PVP because every enemy death makes him stronger, especially if the player built them as my guide specifies which is much more deadly than 5 in blue. When using him pair him with strike tile creators, one of my favorite 3* pairings is Beast because he can use the blue Prof X creates to create even more special tiles.

Note there is the "Charlie's Angels" combo (Prof X, Grey Suit, Scarlet Witch) that can only be done if you do not champion your Professor X, and keep him at a low level so another character can dictate the strongest color. These 3, once they get going, can create near infinite loops of damage when Prof X is creating purple with every 5 match the girls make.

It's up to you which you would rather do, but remember Charlie's Angels is an easy target in PVP while Professor X championed is strong.

Professor X is a character I use daily in Deadpool's Daily Quests. I made a video of it showing how strong he can be in a survival node.

Click here to watch the video.


icon_kingpin.png Kingpin - blackflag.png 3 purpleflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 5 - Rank 3rd of high tier

Offers - Nuke/Tile Nuke/Strike Tiles/AP Genrator/AP Destruction/Countdown Tiles
HP - 15,618 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 636 (destroy a 3 turn) or - 365 (destroy a 5 turn)[/b] (Tile Nuke) - 1051 (if all tile nukes go off)
Damage/AP ratios - Strike - 60

Kingpin has a uniquely fun play style that is also pretty strong. Like most well made characters, his abilities fuel each other. Using kingpin you finally get to use those henchmen that annoy you in PVE icon_lol.gif

Kingpin's yellow is a bit of a gamble but with a high payout. It drops 5 tile nukes, 3 go off in 3 turns, 2 go off in 5 (heavier damage), and 2 create strong strike tiles at 4 turns. In PVP it's unlikely all these are going to survive, thus why it's a gamble. In PVE against henchmen, you can usually just avoid destroying them getting the full return.

Purple not gives you 8 yellow, it doubles down by destroying 6 of the opposing team's strongest color. After using this amazing ability maxed you only need 2 more yellow to drop Kingpin's yellow while slowing the opposing team

At first glance black seems like a good payout, the problem is when you destroy one of kingpin's tiles, that reduces how much damage you could have done. I did the math in the damage/AP ratios which is why it's actually lower than expected. If you destroy kingpin's black tile, you lose a lot of damage.

If you want to use his black, I would advise using with someone who provides unlimited countdown tiles like Scarlet Witch or Totally Awesome Hulk. Scarlet Witch is actually a great combo because she will also provide you with purple to constantly create more yellow. Though this combo works well with 5 yellow/purple too as you will have an insane amount of countdowns all over the board.


icon_thor.png Thor - redflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3 blueflag.png 5 - Rank 2nd of high tier

Offers - Nuke/AOE/Stun/Yellow+Red+Blue Charged Tiles
HP - 17,262 - High
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 402+ (5 charge tiles) (AOE) - 539

Thor is terrible by herself, so the only reason she makes this list is because she pairs phenomenally with 3* Iron Man. Since anyone championing her should have him, they are set for this combo.

Thor's blue Stuns an opponent for 3 turns and creates 5 random charge tiles out of yellow, red, or blue. This helps her fuel all her abilities.

Thor's red nukes an opponent, and does bonus damage for each charge tile on the board. So you simply stun one character, then do massive damage. 3* Iron Man's yellow delivers these two colors to her allowing you to stun two characters, and kill the third. This leaves enough charge tiles on the board to usually get another stun and nuke before they wake up, giving you instant victory.

Thor's yellow damage is low, and converting 3 strike/attack/protect tiles into charge tiles can backfire. Usually characters drop these tiles on their colors, meaning you create charge tiles for their primary colors.

Take into account anyone who creates charge tiles is a push over when the AI plays them. They don't prioritize charge tiles, so this leaves them possibly for your opponent. This makes her easy to beat. However she is a lot more scary when paired with 3* Iron Man because if his yellow goes off she is going to go combo you. Using this team will guarantee you quick victories in both PVE and PVP.

icon_jeangrey.png Jean Grey - purpleflag.png 5 blueflag.png 3 greenflag.png 5 - Rank 1st of high tier

Offers - AOE/Strike Tiles/Attack Tiles/Protect Tiles/Tile Remove
HP - 13,974 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (AOE) - 1166 (AOE) - 846
Tiles Strength/AP - Random 60

Jean is an AOE specialist, this is great starting a battle off, but once you knock out enemies her usefulness drops hard. This makes her hard to recommend as a first 4*, however her purple and blue are hard to ignore being top tier abilities.

Her purple has some amazing AOE damage while also destroying 6 enemy special tiles (her page is incorrect). This makes her great for PVE as well since it will destroy countdowns, or getting rid of invisible tiles etc.

Her blue triggers whenever the enemy team makes a 5 match it drains their strongest color, does AOE damage, and stuns them for 2 turns. This is great, but unreliable so I would advise putting it at 3 which only lowers her damage and AP drain. It is very satisfying when this goes off, and it will protect you from bad games by immediately stopping their turn then give you a free turn due to their team being stunned.

Her green isn't very good, it is similar to Ghost Rider's green who can fire his green off at nearly half the price, though he takes a dip in damage for doing so. Like Ghost Rider she divides the ability into an AOE and drops special tiles. Both end up not being very good unfortunately. Putting less than 5 into this ability renders it useless, which is why 3 goes into blue.

Jean grey's usefulness can easily be seen in her purple, but her blue is hard to define unless you play with her. It is a very comforting safety blanket making her a valuable support character. If you play a lot of PVE you will see a lot of use out of her destroying countdown tiles for you with her purple. The problem is she has to compete with Red Hulk for the title of AOE champion, and he does it much better than Jean.


Top Tier

Go out of your way to get these guys, they are the elite among all characters.

icon_cyclops.png Cyclops - redflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3 blueflag.png 5 - Rank 9th of Top Tier

Offers - Nuke/Shake-up/AP Generator
HP - 14,890 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 539 or 592 (10 team up AP) (Nuke) - 389

Cyclops is amazing at generating red AP, and can even be a decent battery for other types. Unfortunately his red is mediocre, but despite this expect to be firing optic blasts constantly to make up for it.

Cyclops red does mediocre damage/ap, and if he drains 10 team up AP it barely improves. It destroys 1 tile, unless you have 10 AP in which it destroys a line giving it some shake-up. Fortunately gathering red and team up AP is easier than a single color, and with his yellow you will want to collect teamup AP anyways. I personally have better uses for team up AP, so if you do too I would recommend not wasting it for this minor benefit.

Cyclops yellow drops a 6 turn countdown tile that gives you 4 AP in your team's strongest color whenever you match a team up tile, and if you do it adds another turn onto it. This is an amazing battery ability that can fuel him or others with any color, giving you a support option when using him. It is also very cheap at a cost of 5 ap. This ability still works well at 3 covers, gathering 3 ap, so this is definitely the way to go if he is going to be your damage dealer.

Cyclops blue does low damage, but it gathers all the red AP on the board in a 5x5 area of your choosing. This causes lots of shake-up sine it is removing a specific color from the board, while also giving you all the red collected fueling his red.

Cyclops is a good example of a character that can alternate between damage dealer and support. His numbers are almost meh, but he makes up for it in constant AP generation.

icon_katebishop.png Kate Bishop - blueflag.png 2/5 blackflag.png 5 purpleflag.png 3/5 - Rank 8th of top tier

Offers - Nuke/Tile Nuke/Strike Tiles
HP - 13,995 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 827 (Nuke) - 765 (Nuke) 933
Tiles Strength/AP - Strike 91 or 36 (if the nuke goes off)

Kate offers a lot of nukes with great damage. Her defining feature is her rare ability to stop other characters from healing, a potentially devastating ability.

Her blue is not just a straight nuke with great damage, but it drops a blue countdown tile that stops all healing for 5 turns. This is potentially debilitating for combo teams focused on healing, or even dropping annoying healers. The only bad thing about this ability is it's high activation cost of 12.

Her blue would be her highlight if it weren't for black's incredible damage. It's another nuke with even better damage and can be activated with the very low cost of 8. It does this at the cost of dropping a 4 turn countdown tile on black that damages herself for 900 damage. Because of the long timer, this is almost always avoidable, and since it is on black you are going to want to match it anyways to shoot this ability again.

Her purple is a strong tile nuke that goes off in 2 turns. When used it also drops some great strike tiles, however if her nuke goes off it removes some of them making the strike tile portion of the ability a lot less effective. The nice thing is that if the tile nuke gets matched away, you at least get to keep the strike tiles which are still worth it. If you would rather have the strike tiles you always have the option of matching the countdown tile as well.

In my opinion use her blue if you are fighting healers, switch to purple if you aren't. Even if you don't swap these abilities, it won't matter too much, they are both strong regardless. Her black however is a powerhouse, abuse it as much as you can when using her. You will find Kate is amazing at taking down a single character that is a large threat, like Peggy or Hood.

icon_lukecage.png Luke Cage - yellowflag.png 5 blackflag.png 3 redflag.png 5 - Rank 7th of Top Tier

Offers - Nuke/Protect Tiles/Tile Remove/Fortifies
HP - 14,477 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 651 or 1041 (no special tiles) (Nuke) - 741

Just looking at the numbers, it's obvious why Luke Cage is here. His red is the most amazing however, being a straight nuke with this much power and the only restriction is the other team cannot have attack/strike/protect tiles. This is usually something easily done, unless you are fighting against someone who passively drops them consistently. Even so, his red clocks in at 651 still, slightly better than Hulkbusters!

Yellow's restriction is a bit tougher to work around, but if you can the damage on it is great. If there are 3 special tiles on the board, he will fortify them and do 2k damage per tile. There are quite a few 3* and 4* characters who can pump out special tiles, so if you pair them up you can have their tiles fortified and pump out some great damage cheap. When playing PVE you don't have to worry about this since his black will go off like crazy giving you a constant supply of tiles to fortify.

His black isn't as great in PVP, putting out moderately good protect tiles whenever an opponent fires a power. This is great in PVE however since he will churn out protect tiles constantly on black. Even if it isn't amazing, being passive means you can make room for another black anyways.

My first thought was to pair him up with professor X, who dumps tiles all over the place ensuring yellow is always useful for Cage. It worked like a charm, the professor gets his tiles fortified and starts buffing them. Even the professor's invisible tile can get fortified, and that's a good round when it happens. Here is a video where I use the 2 of them and Hulkbuster outfitted to produce red for Luke's superior red.

Click here to watch the video.

icon_nova.png Nova - redflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3 blackflag.png 5 - Rank 6th of top tier

Offers - Nuke/Strike Tile/Airborn
HP - 13,995 - Average
Damage/AP ratios -(Nuke) - 753 - (Nuke) - 438 (Nuke) - 507
Tiles Strength/AP - Strike 99 57 110

Nova is a Strike Tile/Nuke specialist. This makes him top tier, because both are very strong in this game. Not only does he do these well, he does them fast which is remarkable for someone with good return on his abilities.

His red drops good strike tiles, however it's the secondary function of knocking characters airborn and dealing substantial damage that you will want to spam because it is amazing. The secondary function activates when there are strike tiles, so use a different ability to create strike tiles.

His yellow is actually pretty bad compared to the other two. It is a straight forward nuke with low damage and low strike tiles. I can see using this if you really want to drop strike tiles to knock someone airborn but don't have black to do it.

His black offers the best payout for strike tiles, and the most too. This means you are more likely to keep them on the board. It's secondary function removes 4 strike tiles and does a nuke, so essentially this nuke costs 16 AP since it undoes what it did previous. It can be useful for finishing someone off, but other than that I wouldn't use it.

Since strike tiles up damage on everything you do, they are extremely valuable. Nukes, well, they kill stuff. It's obvious why a specialist in both fields with a nice stun easily ranks at the top.

icon_punisher.png Punisher - blackflag.png 5 greenflag.png 5 blueflag.png 3 - Rank 5th of top tier

Offers - Nuke/AOE/Strike Tiles
HP - 14,956 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 681+ 3 tiles (Nuke) 1171+ (Army of One) (AOE) - 779 (3 enemies) 856 (2 enemies) 934 (Nuke)
Tiles Strength/AP - Strike 67

Punisher pumps out a ton of damage, and the damage escalates fast the more strike tiles there are. This character shines when by himself, so is great for someone starting off in the 4* realm.

His black is just a decent nuke that gets stronger depending on how many strike tiles are out, however when he is alone (or other characters are stunned) it becomes incredible. It also drops 2 more strike tiles, I didn't add their strength since they are pretty pathetic and are mainly for escalating blacks nuke damage.

His green is AOE is decent when their are 3 enemies, but actually gets stronger with every enemy you down, so it takes the weakness of AOEs and makes it a strength. This mechanic is very enjoyable and makes green useful in any situation. This comes at the cost of stunning your teammates, which is good for punisher, but bad for your team so time it wisely. Once your teammates are stunned, Punisher is free to execute Army of One.

His blue gives 3 strike tiles, but only 2 if you have it at 3. If you are going to use punisher you definitely should pair him with anyone who can help create strike tiles. Blue should be primarily used to make his black stronger, so fire it off before you use Army of One.

Punisher is a lot of fun to play because of his unique and fitting mechanics. I wouldn't advocate saving up for one giant attack, it takes awhile to arrange the combo, if you have green and black ready and a few strike tiles, just use it to finish a character or two off so you don't end up taking damaging trying to make a big show of it like I do in my video. I pair him up with Professor X, and Nova. Nova can drop a lot of strikes and every time he does Prof X will drop an extra one too.

Watch the video here.

icon_redhulk.png Red Hulk - redflag.png 3 greenflag.png 5 purpleflag.png 5 - Rank 4th of top tier

Offers - AOE/Shake-up/AP Generator/AP Reduction
HP - 18,422 - Very High
Damage/AP ratios - (AOE) - 929 or 1222-1099 (18-20 AP) 934

Red Hulk is another AOE specialist. His numbers are impressive, but what makes him better than Jean is his ability to fuel his AOE and his massive HP.

His green even if you don't save up, is very impressive for a 9 ap cost. This cost also serves to discourage attacks, since fighting Red Hulk means you are almost certain to get hit once with his area attack. For as long as I have used him, I dont always trigger his green at 18 perfectly, usually you will hit between 18-20 AP, which is what the numbers up their depict. Realize you are getting a lot of waste if you are going beyond that, and that is Red Hulk's weakness. Even at 20 AP you are only getting an extra 100 damage/ap.

This weakness is OK since his purple will fuel his green quickly. His purple uses 7 purple to give you 7 green while destroying all of the opponents green. This ability is probably is his best, especially against opponents using green. With Red Hulk you have 2 colors contributing to his AOE while harming the opponent for seemingly free.

His red is pretty forgettable after looking at the other 2 abilities used together, like Hulk when hit with enough damage he drops a countdown tile, however when these ones go off they do minor shake-up (4 tiles, or 6 at max red covers). This makes it a very easy choice at 3 covers.

It's really hard to recommend AOE specialists to new 4* players, however Red Hulk is really too good to pass up. You are guaranteed to set off his 18 AP AOE every game, and it typically finishes any fight. Just make sure to bring in someone who can sweep up any leftover characters after he goes off, since his AOE isn't going to help you finish of a single character very easily.

If you have Red Hulk, I would advise you to look into getting Totally Awesome Hulk, for some reason they are often buffed together. When that happens they are incredibly hard to deal with, and very easy to win battles with. Red Hulk also works well with Scarlet Witch, again just make sure you are bringing in someone who can deal decent single target damage as your 3rd character, because these 2 characters offer none.

icon_ironman.png Hulkbuster - redflag.png 5 blackflag.png 5 blueflag.png 3 - Rank 3rd of top tier

Offers - Nuke/Strike Tiles/AP Generator/Red Production
HP - 17,810 - Very High
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 650
Tiles Strength/AP - Strike 354

Hulkbuster puts fueling his attacks to the extreme. Both black and blue fuel his red, which is an above average attack. He does this while creating cascades and creating some great strike tiles.

His red is a straight nuke that gives you an extra 650 damage for each red it drains when activated, just like Ares green. Unlike Ares green, it doesn't give the enemy any AP. It also has the benefit of activating at the low cost of 9 ap.

Hulkbuster's black is the reason he is extremely overpowered. For 11 black AP you receive 9 red AP meaning this skill really only costs 2 AP since you will always need red for his punch. It also drops 2 strong attack tiles, so essentially for the low cost of 2 AP you receive 2 strong attack tiles. You also take 1,541 damage, which is is very little considering his high HP.

His blue converts 7 green tiles to red tiles, creating cascades and even more red for Hulkbuster. It gives very little advantage from 3 to 5, only converting an extra 2 tiles, and since black and red are so great, it is an easy decision to set this to 3 unless you are using him to fuel another character's red.

There are very few characters that can fuel their own abilities with another, and ones that can do it with 2 abilities are extremely rare. Couple that with his black's tile strength/AP ratio and Hulkbuster is incredibly strong. Getting black to 11 means you get a free punch and strong attack tiles, which completely turns the tide of any battle.

icon_iceman.png Iceman - greenflag.png 5 blueflag.png 5 purpleflag.png 3 - Rank 2nd of top tier

Offers - Nuke/AOE/Stun/Blue Production/AP Reduction
HP - 13,934 - Average
Damage/AP ratios - (AOE) - 1366+ (9 blue on board) (Nuke) - 664

Iceman brings the whole package, a strong AOE, an above average nuke, spot stunning, and the ability to fuel himself.

Iceman's green is arguably the strongest AOE in the 4* realm as far as I know. Damage varies depending on how much blue is on the board, however on average you will have 9 blue on the board. Even if you are farming blue, purple will assure you keep at least an average amount there.

Iceman's blue is extremely versatile. For 6 ap you stun an opponent for an whopping 4 turns, then it drops a 4 turn countdown tile. If you use this ability again while this countdown is up, it will destroy the countdown and do a nuke instead. This means you can choose to chain stun enemies or finish them with a nuke.

Iceman's purple converts 7 red tiles to blue, however at 3 it still converts 5 making it an easy choice to put purple to 3. It still fuels his blue well, and there is no way you can turn away green and blue when you use Iceman.

The only failing I can see for Iceman is his terrible art that makes him look like some sort of ice goblin. If you can stomach that, get him, hes good!

icon_peggycarter.png Peggy Carter - redflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3 blueflag.png 5 - Rank 1st of top tier

Offers - Nuke/Tile Nuke/Stun
HP - 14,956 - Above Average
Damage/AP ratios - (Nuke) - 750 (T
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Comments

  • cubnadcubnad Age Unconfirmed Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    edited February 2017
    I look forward to the rest of this guide. Your 3 star.png guide was a hugh help in deciding where to put ISO and now that I'm starting to get some of my 4 star.png ready to champ, the ISO debate is strong.
  • atomzedatomzed Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    Miles and Thing as lower tier than Fury? Really?

    I would rate them as medium tier. Miles has a unique ap acceleration and has a good 6ap stun blast. Thing yellow makes him a good shield.

    It can't be that they are at the same level/ tier as elektra and Mr F.
  • wgasadudewgasadude Posts: 24 Just Dropped In
    Good read so far - 3* guide was great and looking forward to the rest here! I'm a 3-4 transitioner now so there's that too.

    Just two comments so far:

    1 small typo in Thing's write up - you called him Thor icon_e_biggrin.gif

    The other - as a transitioner with wolvy max covered the Loki, mag 3*, wolvy team is a one of my primary go-to teams. I realize this is a 4* guide, so up to you to include that kind of thing.

    Good work!
  • amusingfoo1amusingfoo1 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 597 Critical Contributor
    Thanks for working on this; your 3* guide was a life-saver in the 3* transition. I have a few comments on this one, though.

    It should be noted that Mr F does work well with Carnage. Maybe with Medusa too. That's about the limit of his usefulness though; no argument about having him at the bottom.

    Elektra? I think you might be selling her black a bit short, but I don't disagree overall.

    Miles, however, I disagree strongly. First, you need to have his yellow at four or five; at three, it's basically useless. I like to play him at 4/4/5, focusing on his red. I have friends who prefer him at 5/5/3, ignoring his red. Either is effective. How good? He almost single-handedly won me two different heroics in the last six months or so.

    One minor note about XFW is that his health points greatly limit his usefulness in PvP.

    Thing? Yeah, even boosted he's only ok. I'd rate him over Fury, and a few others, but not many. I like his abilities, but they're definitely too expensive.

    Edit: I forgot to mention; Wasp belongs somewhere down here in the bottom tier. She's terrible; there's a reason I use her in my grills. Drax, probably, too. Maybe Agent Venom as well. Haven't played the latter two enough to be sure.
  • DFiPLDFiPL Posts: 2,401 Chairperson of the Boards
    First things first: Thank you for doing this. It can't be easy, and it will be a valuable resource to folks like me who are still in early days on 4* championing. That said, I have a couple of (hopefully constructive) criticisms:
    Dauthi wrote:
    Low Tier

    These guys should be put on the wait list for your ISO. Characters are listed in worst to best (again, in my opinion).


    icon_mrfantastic.png Mr. Fantastic - blueflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3 blackflag.png 5

    Offers - Stun/Protect Tiles/Green AP Generator/Healing
    HP - 13,934 - Average
    AP/damage ratios - N/A Rank 5th of low tier

    Mr. Fantastic can do a bit of damage, but as you can tell it is definitely not his specialty. He is a defensive support, but unlike Kamala, he only heals himself, though it is a true heal. Like Ragnarok he can stay alive, but similarly he is unimportant to keep alive. Unfortunately it only triggers when the enemy matches your special tiles, so he works best with anyone who puts out many special tiles, which unfortunately doesn't include the 4* members of the Fantastic Four for some reason (Human Torch's black might be decent, unfortunately he's a 3* and his black is meh).

    His only source of damage is his black, which works similar to Vision's blue adding 812 damage, except it works on all of your red/green/yellow matches then gives the countdown tile another turn. This makes it generally better than Vision's ability. His blue is actually not bad for a cheap stun that creates decent protect tiles, which unfortunately are still unwanted in the 4* realm.

    He is a support character that does a bad job of support and has no real use. Before writing this I tested Invisible Woman/Thing/Mr.Fantastic in Shield Training since I have them all champed. It worked OK at best, the main problem is Thing and Invisible woman just don't create special tiles to get the Fantastic Four bonus. I'm not sure what they were thinking when creating synergy with his team. icon_question.gif

    icon_thing.png Thing - redflag.png 3/5 yellowflag.png 5 greenflag.png 3/5 - Rank 1st of low tier

    Offers - Tank/Nuke/Protect Tiles/Shake-up/Stun
    HP - 17,759 - High
    AP/damage ratios - Red (Nuke) - 489 Black (Nuke) - 508

    Thor is a Tank specialist. Just looking at his numbers in game, some may not be able to tell that his damage is low. His yellow is one of, if not the best, Tank abilities in game however, dropping 5 very strong protect tiles whenever he jumps in front of a team member. This means you will likely always have protect tiles out and your other characters will remain untouched. It also means in PVP the opponent is forced to kill Thing first, and he has a lot of HP. Defense isn't a priority in Marvel Puzzle Quest, but this is still excellent.

    You haven't commented yet on Invisible Woman, but whether you go 5/3/5, 3/5/5, or 4/4/5, her yellow and blue can combine for four special tiles per paired use, and at 7 and 8 AP respectively, she can do so inexpensively. The issue isn't that there aren't enough special tiles on the board; the issue is that Mr. Fantastic's yellow passive just doesn't do much for the team as a whole. Most of the benefit is directed towards Reed himself. Whether you run his passive at 3 covers or at 5, he generates the same amount of green AP per Fantastic Four teammate per special tile destroyed.

    So while you're correct that the synergy is poor, it isn't because of a lack of special tiles created.

    Second criticism is more of a question; if Elektra is scary to face, how can she be low-tier? icon_e_wink.gif
  • STOPTHISSTOPTHIS Posts: 775 Critical Contributor
    Dauthi wrote:
    icon_wolverine.png Wolverine - greenflag.png 3/5 blackflag.png 5 yellowflag.png 3/5 - Rank 2nd of low tier

    Offers - Nuke/Shake-up/Healer
    HP - 10,960 - Low
    AP/damage ratios - green (Nuke) - 170 Black (Nuke) - 639 (9 tiles) yellow (Nuke) - 400

    Wolverine is a shake-up specialist, smashing the board up and creating chaotic cascades. Wolverine's bread and butter is definitely his black. It has good ap/damage ratio and creates a lot of shake-up. It destroys the opponent's strongest color, and the more tiles it destroys the more damage it does. Doing the math, the average amount of any tile on the board is 9, so this ability could do better or worse. With planning and luck he can do some great damage.

    His green is one of the best shake-ups in the game, cheap and effective however with just a little bit of damage. His yellow is either a great self heal, or a decent shake-up with decent damage to accompany it, depending on if your opponent matches it. This creates a problem where you sometimes don't get the effect you need.

    Shake-up is randomly good or terrible, depending on luck, so this Shake-up specialist revolves greatly around a gambling play style. Since his damage and effectiveness is unreliable, he can't be recommended for budding 4* players. It should be noted however that he has an outstanding combo with Deadpool's purple! If you have Deadpool already championed, X-Force can be moved from low tier to mid tier.

    icon_thing.png Thing - redflag.png 3/5 yellowflag.png 5 greenflag.png 3/5 - Rank 1st of low tier

    Offers - Tank/Nuke/Protect Tiles/Shake-up/Stun
    HP - 17,759 - High
    AP/damage ratios - Red (Nuke) - 489 Black (Nuke) - 508

    Thor is a Tank specialist. Just looking at his numbers in game, some may not be able to tell that his damage is low. His yellow is one of, if not the best, Tank abilities in game however, dropping 5 very strong protect tiles whenever he jumps in front of a team member. This means you will likely always have protect tiles out and your other characters will remain untouched. It also means in PVP the opponent is forced to kill Thing first, and he has a lot of HP. Defense isn't a priority in Marvel Puzzle Quest, but this is still excellent.

    Unfortunately this is where his usefulness ends. Both his red and green are basic abilities and do the same amount of damage, and it is average. It doesn't matter which of these you put 5 into, it's just a matter of do you need a red or green ability, or a stun or shake-up ability?

    As a new player you won't need a defense specialist. I don't know if anyone really does other than to troll people in PVP with multiple tanks icon_lol.gif

    Just because it's bugging my fake OCD, I wanted to point out that Wolverine's green is red coloring and Thing's black is in green coloring. You also call Thing Thor.
  • Shmoe50Shmoe50 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 39 Just Dropped In
    Thanks for all of your work! As someone just transitioning into 4* land, I did not regret getting the 13 covers for Dino Dinosaur, and levelling him to 270. His damage and tank ability were very useful at the time, and I still use him in PvE quite a bit. Totally agree on Howard, though!
  • DauthiDauthi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2017
    atomzed wrote:
    Miles and Thing as lower tier than Fury? Really?

    I would rate them as medium tier. Miles has a unique ap acceleration and has a good 6ap stun blast. Thing yellow makes him a good shield.

    It can't be that they are at the same level/ tier as elektra and Mr F.

    I just don't see the need for a 1 turn stun unless the other team is down to 1 character left. Even then it's just kind of nice to have, but I would rather have more damage, and the ap/damage ratio is barely above average I would say at this point. I would agree it is his best skill though, which is sad. It is essentially Thing's red but with more damage to compensate for 1 less turn of stun.

    I also don't see a reason a new player would champion Thing, they need damage. If a new player champions Thing, and it is their only buff for the week, they have to rely on him for damage and he just won't do that. In fact when buffed he won't protect their squishy unbuffed 4*s or buffed 3*s because his yellow get's worse at covering your team the higher his level. Fury offers double the ap/damage with his blue. His purple costs 12 AP and potentially gives back 9 AP. while creating a great strike tile. It's why I post the numbers, to show how useful abilities are despite popular beliefs.

    I would put Mr F and Elektra down 1 tier, but it would be silly just to make a tier just for the 2 of them. There is a big chasm between them and Miles I would say.
    wgasadude wrote:

    1 small typo in Thing's write up - you called him Thor icon_e_biggrin.gif

    The other - as a transitioner with wolvy max covered the Loki, mag 3*, wolvy team is a one of my primary go-to teams. I realize this is a 4* guide, so up to you to include that kind of thing.

    Good work!

    Fixed! Thanks, I did that towards the end of the night.

    I can't claim to have invented that combo, but I think I was probably one of the first to use it at least. I made a video to show it to my alliance, note the date on the video July 2015. icon_e_biggrin.gif

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DCt495CR5w

    It is a great combo, even after Wolvie's nerf. Cascades can be really strong especially when you gather multiple characters that can create them.

    Miles, however, I disagree strongly. First, you need to have his yellow at four or five; at three, it's basically useless. I like to play him at 4/4/5, focusing on his red. I have friends who prefer him at 5/5/3, ignoring his red. Either is effective. How good? He almost single-handedly won me two different heroics in the last six months or so.

    One minor note about XFW is that his health points greatly limit his usefulness in PvP.

    Thing? Yeah, even boosted he's only ok. I'd rate him over Fury, and a few others, but not many. I like his abilities, but they're definitely too expensive.

    Edit: I forgot to mention; Wasp belongs somewhere down here in the bottom tier. She's terrible; there's a reason I use her in my grills. Drax, probably, too. Maybe Agent Venom as well. Haven't played the latter two enough to be sure.


    I put up his numbers using his yellow at 5 and using his purple twice at 5, and it actually drops the effectiveness of the combo from 521 without dropping his yellow, to 430 (after dropping it too). Unless I messed up the numbers, his yellow just needs to drop more web tiles for this combo to make sense.

    Note any of these characters (except Mr. F) are going to be amazing when buffed because of how the abilities sky rocket passed level 300. So at 350 or so looks can be deceiving, which is why I back this up with numbers. With all the required winding up for Miles' punch, it flops compared to even mid tier abilites.

    I don't have Wasp, Venom and Drax championed yet, but I can say when they released I don't remember being impressed. I could go over their numbers on their page, but I feel it's only fair to try them out, or try to find interesting synergy with them otherwise it would be more of a theory rather than experience.
    DFiPL wrote:
    You haven't commented yet on Invisible Woman, but whether you go 5/3/5, 3/5/5, or 4/4/5, her yellow and blue can combine for four special tiles per paired use, and at 7 and 8 AP respectively, she can do so inexpensively. The issue isn't that there aren't enough special tiles on the board; the issue is that Mr. Fantastic's yellow passive just doesn't do much for the team as a whole. Most of the benefit is directed towards Reed himself. Whether you run his passive at 3 covers or at 5, he generates the same amount of green AP per Fantastic Four teammate per special tile destroyed.

    So while you're correct that the synergy is poor, it isn't because of a lack of special tiles created.

    Second criticism is more of a question; if Elektra is scary to face, how can she be low-tier? icon_e_wink.gif

    It's true, Thing and Invisible woman can produce some special tiles, the problem is the protect tiles are all on yellow. This means when a yellow match is made you usually lose 3 special tiles and only get Mr. F's bonus once icon_evil.gif

    As for Invisible Woman's blue, it only drops 3 strike tiles also on the same color (blue). I don't think that is enough special tiles to really contribute. Human Torch's black on the other hand drops 8 special tiles on random colors, this would be great if he wasn't a 3* and his black was generally bad. This aside, I do feel that I was getting in enough green to matter, because Invisible Woman's green is great, with that team you spam it to win. If I could trigger Mr. F more it would be totally worth it, or like what you said if he offered more when he does get triggered.

    He is supposed to be the team leader but he heals himself. What a jerk right? icon_lol.gif

    She is terrifying on defense, but when you use her on offense you have to be up against a special tile creator for her to be that good against the other team. You can do some serious damage if you took her against Old Man Logan and kept stealing his strike tiles. This wouldn't help a new player though if one of their few 4*s is only good sometimes.
    STOPTHIS wrote:

    Just because it's bugging my fake OCD, I wanted to point out that Wolverine's green is red coloring and Thing's black is in green coloring. You also call Thing Thor.

    ROFL! I get it, i'm the same way, when I thank people for correcting silly mistakes like that I mean it genuinely.

    Thanks icon_e_biggrin.gif
    Shmoe50 wrote:
    Thanks for all of your work! As someone just transitioning into 4* land, I did not regret getting the 13 covers for Dino Dinosaur, and levelling him to 270. His damage and tank ability were very useful at the time, and I still use him in PvE quite a bit. Totally agree on Howard, though!

    The main problem isn't that Dino isn't good, it's that he is never buffed and never featured in Clash of the Titans. When a character get's buffed their damage/ap goes through the roof. Even bad characters become good. Because of that, if someone is a new 4* player they need to aim for he best 4*s, or at the very least the ones that will be buffed and featured in Clash of the Titans.
  • archmagarchmag Age Unconfirmed Posts: 25
    Dauthi wrote:
    The main problem isn't that Dino isn't good, it's that he is never buffed and never featured in Clash of the Titans. When a character get's buffed their damage/ap goes through the roof. Even bad characters become good. Because of that, if someone is a new 4* player they need to aim for he best 4*s, or at the very least the ones that will be buffed and featured in Clash of the Titans.
    He was featured in Clash of the Titans twice last year, both times during the anniversary. The whole cycle takes around 6 months (last one started at 9/24/2016 and should end at 3/13/2017), so every other character is also featured twice a year. 10/9/2016 and 10/14/2016 were Devil Dino vs Squirrel Girl Clashes. Because you can only get him during short time period his covers are more rare than most other characters so the earlier you decide to keep him, the earlier you will start gaining his benefits.
  • LemminkäinenLemminkäinen Age Unconfirmed Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    Dauthi wrote:
    I just don't see the need for a 1 turn stun unless the other team is down to 1 character left.
    It can stop abilities that fire off of enemy abilities firing so stuff like Dr. Strange or Starlord as well as stuff that happens when a character takes damage like 3*Danvers or Thing/3*4*Deadpool when done in conjunction with another ability. Also, since AI fires off abilities when it can, if the enemy team has two abilities with similar costs, you can dictate which one they fire by stunning the other guy. This can be a lifesaver in PvP where you often have a 3* with lackluster abilities and then horrible stuff coming from two boosted four-stars. So stun the four-star and let the 3-star waste the AP.

    Miles' red is surprisingly versatile when you use it well.
    Even then it's just kind of nice to have, but I would rather have more damage, and the ap/damage ratio is barely above average I would say at this point. I would agree it is his best skill though, which is sad. It is essentially Thing's red but with more damage to compensate for 1 less turn of stun.
    His yellow and purple can function as pretty nice batteries. Not quite IM40 level but surprisingly good. I rate Miles better than you do as he is fast.

    That said, thank you for taking the time to do this! Much appreciated!
  • MagicMagic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    The 3* guide was essential for me so allow me to repay and chime in on this one (with 18 championed 4* and soon to be 21 I belive i have some input).

    1. The reality of the current meta is the 4* should be regarded and graded only in the boosted form (for PvP). Any boosted 4* when championed outshines unboosted top ones. I get that 270 Iceman is potent (his blue still does 8k damage and takes out an enemy for 4 turns) but 370 Miles is just better. But you would never take Miles over Ice at 270 each. I might be wrong here but my experience (the allseeing eye test) tells me so. I always pick the boosted 4* in PvP and find a combo for them.
    2. Thing - Should be higher up (even if you only rank 4* you have). His health when boosted is a problem for opps and he can do heavy damage. Paired with Jean in tex-mex PvP got me the highest amount of defensive victories in recent memory. Granted that team relied on Deadpool red and Jean's purple more but having Thing there saved the day more then once on offense as well.
    3. Wolverine is not as bad as you picture him (his Black is still amazing even if nowhere near the prime time). I have him championed just recently and couple of weeks ago he was boosted in PvE. He was a key to get good result. Of course he plays best with 4*Deadpool but this combo alone should justify a better grade. When both are boosted in the same week they are a formidable duo.
    4. I don't value Nick very much. He is slow even is his damage output is great.
    5. Cho - not sure. He seems very good (not yet championed) - i have used him a lot recently in PvE to fuel green for Rhulk (along with Switch). Very usefull support that can only be better when championed.
    6. Ghost Rider - i regard him bottom of the barrel. And the main reason is that he has one good skill and it's independent of levels - just needs 5 covers. So why not take his Teamup (even 3 of them) and use somebody else in his place that can provide something more useful. Having in mind his limited usability (red and green are just trash) I am tempted to rank him as the very bottom of the 4* realm. Boosted MrFantastic can be dangerous when he gets going (same for Electra). Him - not much more then unboosted.

    Thanks fore reading the long post icon_e_wink.gif
  • mpqr7mpqr7 Posts: 2,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Very good guide, well written and detailed. I agree with almost everything you said.
    Do NOT collect Howard the Duck or Devil Dino. These characters are never buffed or featured in Clash of the Titans because they are souvenir/collectibles. Yes I know they may be featured once a year, but we get what I mean icon_e_wink.gif

    I disagree with this. Although the characters aren't "useful" per se, they are a lot of fun to use, plus it's awesome to have them as fun collectibles. So I think people SHOULD collect them and even maybe put some ISO into them. They are nice for their clashes or pvps or if they happen to be required. It's rare, but it can happen during special occasions!

    Also I'm not crazy about Fury. His blue is fantastic, but his other powers are very slow to be used.
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    I appreciate the work that goes into something like this and understand it's opinion based. That said, given your early results, I think your rankings already fall distantly behind the two already in existence:

    viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56176
    viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56249

    I have my own individual qualms with each of those, but no one in those tiers seems shockingly out of place. I can't say the same here, though the fact you're only rating about 50% of the tier may be the cause.
  • DauthiDauthi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2017
    Dauthi wrote:
    I just don't see the need for a 1 turn stun unless the other team is down to 1 character left.
    It can stop abilities that fire off of enemy abilities firing so stuff like Dr. Strange or Starlord as well as stuff that happens when a character takes damage like 3*Danvers or Thing/3*4*Deadpool when done in conjunction with another ability. Also, since AI fires off abilities when it can, if the enemy team has two abilities with similar costs, you can dictate which one they fire by stunning the other guy. This can be a lifesaver in PvP where you often have a 3* with lackluster abilities and then horrible stuff coming from two boosted four-stars. So stun the four-star and let the 3-star waste the AP.

    Miles' red is surprisingly versatile when you use it well.
    Even then it's just kind of nice to have, but I would rather have more damage, and the ap/damage ratio is barely above average I would say at this point. I would agree it is his best skill though, which is sad. It is essentially Thing's red but with more damage to compensate for 1 less turn of stun.
    His yellow and purple can function as pretty nice batteries. Not quite IM40 level but surprisingly good. I rate Miles better than you do as he is fast.


    As far as I know at the start of the AI's turn, if there are multiple abilities of the same color, it will pick one randomly to try to use. If it does not have enough AP it will save for it. It does the same thing the next turn and the next. So yes, stunning may save you, or you may be in the same situation next turn when they fire the ability anyways.

    What you are explaining is very circumstantial, and I feel most of the time players won't save the stun for that situation, but rather use the damage to finish off an opponent.

    I wouldn't consider Miles a battery, unless nobody uses yellow on your team I suppose. Even then you pay 8 ap to gain 12 (assuming you or the opponent doesn't match 2 webs in one match), and when you receive them is random and trickles in.
    Magic wrote:
    1. The reality of the current meta is the 4* should be regarded and graded only in the boosted form (for PvP). Any boosted 4* when championed outshines unboosted top ones. I get that 270 Iceman is potent (his blue still does 8k damage and takes out an enemy for 4 turns) but 370 Miles is just better. But you would never take Miles over Ice at 270 each. I might be wrong here but my experience (the allseeing eye test) tells me so. I always pick the boosted 4* in PvP and find a combo for them.

    If you have a choice to champion Iceman or Miles, I hope you choose Iceman. That is what this guide is for. Yes, any unboosted champion is going to be worse than a boosted, but let's say both Miles and Iceman are boosted one week, and you chose Miles, you are going to be chosen to be attacked long before Iceman so PVP will be rough. On offensive you will find mowing down other boosted 4*s much easier with Iceman than Miles too.

    2. Thing - Should be higher up (even if you only rank 4* you have). His health when boosted is a problem for opps and he can do heavy damage. Paired with Jean in tex-mex PvP got me the highest amount of defensive victories in recent memory. Granted that team relied on Deadpool red and Jean's purple more but having Thing there saved the day more then once on offense as well.

    I'm not sure why anyone would be afraid of Thing, but let me be clear, he does not do heavy damage. Compared to other characters his damage is actually poor. This is another reason I make guides like this, it's hard to tell how much damage you are getting for how much you are paying sometimes. The numbers are up there if you take a look.

    I consistently target anyone who uses Thing boosted because he is not a threat. The only time I may avoid him is if a top tier boosted 4* is hiding behind him. If something like Hood is hiding behind him, I chuckle as Thing watches me rip Hood apart because he won't act unless I do something like 3k damage.
    3. Wolverine is not as bad as you picture him (his Black is still amazing even if nowhere near the prime time). I have him championed just recently and couple of weeks ago he was boosted in PvE. He was a key to get good result. Of course he plays best with 4*Deadpool but this combo alone should justify a better grade. When both are boosted in the same week they are a formidable duo.

    He is just too random, other than his black, when compared to others who have guaranteed damage. You could argue that his black is random too since you could have a low concentration of the enemy's strongest color on the board. I can't put him higher because many players may not have Deadpool, but I do note that if they do already have him, to go for it.
    6. Ghost Rider - i regard him bottom of the barrel. And the main reason is that he has one good skill and it's independent of levels - just needs 5 covers. So why not take his Teamup (even 3 of them) and use somebody else in his place that can provide something more useful. Having in mind his limited usability (red and green are just trash) I am tempted to rank him as the very bottom of the 4* realm. Boosted MrFantastic can be dangerous when he gets going (same for Electra). Him - not much more then unboosted.

    I disagree that red and green are trash, I think that a lot of people disregard low AP abilities because their numbers aren't dazzling. His green only costs 7 ap, and you get an AOE of 600 damage/ap or 800 damage per ap. This isn't amazing, but it certainly isn't trash especially when it comes with 2 attack tiles. (I actually messed up his Green's numbers, so I fixed it thanks to this post)

    His red is risky, like any countdown that sits on the board, but can do some serious damage if you are lucky and continuously create attack tiles.
    I appreciate the work that goes into something like this and understand it's opinion based. That said, given your early results, I think your rankings already fall distantly behind the two already in existence:

    viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56176
    viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56249

    I have my own individual qualms with each of those, but no one in those tiers seems shockingly out of place. I can't say the same here, though the fact you're only rating about 50% of the tier may be the cause.

    I am missing a lot of the bad characters, and note as with my 3* guide. Low Tier - Champion last - Mid Tier - Meh - High Tier - Champion if you can - Top Tier - actively pursue these covers.

    I am trying to make a guide, not so much a ranking. Characters like Thing for example are much better when supporting a stronger character by covering them, but a new player is not likely to have this luxury so I can't recommend him. They are unlikely to have a good buffed 4* while their Thing is buffed since they have very few 4*s. The best strategy is for them to find as many of the best characters that can carry even on their own.

    I am also trying to give as much hard facts like damage numbers for characters to prove it, unlike other rankings/guides. For instance, while you can't exactly calculate Thing's yellow worth, I am surprised so many people think his red/green are good. As I add more characters I hope to show everyone that 400-500 damage/ap is low/average. Maybe because he is so big and buff looking when he makes a punch animation people are more impressed? It's pretty interesting.
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dauthi wrote:
    As far as I know at the start of the AI's turn, if there are multiple abilities of the same color, it will pick one randomly to try to use. If it does not have enough AP it will save for it. It does the same thing the next turn and the next. So yes, stunning may save you, or you may be in the same situation next turn when they fire the ability anyways.
    As I understand the AI, if it has enough AP to use the most expensive ability in a color they will use that ability, no ifs and buts about it. It can be quite interesting when you play against say Hulkbuster with Another red user - Hulkbuster goes into Overdrive so GSBW can fire her Pistol!
    If the AI does not have enough AP to use the most expensive ability but can use a less expensive ability, it's basically a coin flip each turn to see if it will use the less expensive ability or save the AP for later.
  • FightmastermpqFightmastermpq Age Unconfirmed Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    Dauthi wrote:
    Magic wrote:
    1. The reality of the current meta is the 4* should be regarded and graded only in the boosted form (for PvP). Any boosted 4* when championed outshines unboosted top ones. I get that 270 Iceman is potent (his blue still does 8k damage and takes out an enemy for 4 turns) but 370 Miles is just better. But you would never take Miles over Ice at 270 each. I might be wrong here but my experience (the allseeing eye test) tells me so. I always pick the boosted 4* in PvP and find a combo for them.

    If you have a choice to champion Iceman or Miles, I hope you choose Iceman. That is what this guide is for. Yes, any unboosted champion is going to be worse than a boosted, but let's say both Miles and Iceman are boosted one week, and you chose Miles, you are going to be chosen to be attacked long before Iceman so PVP will be rough. On offensive you will find mowing down other boosted 4*s much easier with Iceman than Miles too.

    This isn't always the case though. Boosted Thing hits like a truck. He is boosted right now and his red and green both hit for 5* damage levels with modifiers. This value doesn't quite carry over to characters like Fury, or Ghost Rider who you have ranked higher. Ant-Man is another good example of a pretty solid 4* character that loses a lot of value because he doesn't boost well. On the other hand, someone like Flaptain is regarded as bottom tier, but boosted that Yellow->Red combo can really ruin someone's day.

    How a character scales with boosting should be a HUGE consideration when determining 4* champ order - especially when you consider higher tier play where an unboosted 4* suddenly makes your defensive powerhouse a cupcake.
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dauthi wrote:
    I am also trying to give as much hard facts like damage numbers for characters to prove it, unlike other rankings/guides. For instance, while you can't exactly calculate Thing's yellow worth, I am surprised so many people think his red/green are good. As I add more characters I hope to show everyone that 400-500 damage/ap is low/average. Maybe because he is so big and buff looking when he makes a punch animation people are more impressed? It's pretty interesting.

    One of the things with Thing is he alters the way you have to attack, which has intangible value. Especially when boosted, you can't target your nukes on anyone but him until he's whittled down. The value of his red also goes beyond just the damage, a 2-turn stun has value. That's slightly more tangible but still is outside the numbers of just damage/AP.

    It's also not exactly a 1 to 1 comparison when looking at AoE vs Single target. Listing's GR's green as 603 per AP is accurate only with 3 opponents active, and even then it's not necessarily the preferable option to Thing's green in different game states.

    So overall I think having Thing as a "last to champ" tier isn't a correct eval, especially when you have (generally accepted as) weaker characters like Fury and GR ahead of him.

    At this point though I'll let the list play out. I really just wanted to note the other two rankings, so a 3* transitioner is aware of the other options and make an informed decision based on all of them, including this one.
  • amusingfoo1amusingfoo1 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 597 Critical Contributor
    A couple comments on the last few.

    Ghost Rider isn't a great candidate for being champed early, as his best ability, by far, is level-independent on damage.

    And X-23's regeneration depends on her tanking her colors, so her best build depends on team. If she only tanks one color, you definitely want her to have five in red. And my luck with her purple has been far worse than yours. Maybe half the time it's been triggered, in my usage. I never use her without five green. There's some variation with the other two, but it's mostly 5/5/3.
  • DauthiDauthi Age Unconfirmed Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    Quebbster wrote:
    Dauthi wrote:
    As far as I know at the start of the AI's turn, if there are multiple abilities of the same color, it will pick one randomly to try to use. If it does not have enough AP it will save for it. It does the same thing the next turn and the next. So yes, stunning may save you, or you may be in the same situation next turn when they fire the ability anyways.
    As I understand the AI, if it has enough AP to use the most expensive ability in a color they will use that ability, no ifs and buts about it. It can be quite interesting when you play against say Hulkbuster with Another red user - Hulkbuster goes into Overdrive so GSBW can fire her Pistol!
    If the AI does not have enough AP to use the most expensive ability but can use a less expensive ability, it's basically a coin flip each turn to see if it will use the less expensive ability or save the AP for later.

    That makes sense, looking back I have seen this happen frequently too.
    Dauthi wrote:
    Magic wrote:
    1. The reality of the current meta is the 4* should be regarded and graded only in the boosted form (for PvP). Any boosted 4* when championed outshines unboosted top ones. I get that 270 Iceman is potent (his blue still does 8k damage and takes out an enemy for 4 turns) but 370 Miles is just better. But you would never take Miles over Ice at 270 each. I might be wrong here but my experience (the allseeing eye test) tells me so. I always pick the boosted 4* in PvP and find a combo for them.

    If you have a choice to champion Iceman or Miles, I hope you choose Iceman. That is what this guide is for. Yes, any unboosted champion is going to be worse than a boosted, but let's say both Miles and Iceman are boosted one week, and you chose Miles, you are going to be chosen to be attacked long before Iceman so PVP will be rough. On offensive you will find mowing down other boosted 4*s much easier with Iceman than Miles too.

    This isn't always the case though. Boosted Thing hits like a truck. He is boosted right now and his red and green both hit for 5* damage levels with modifiers. This value doesn't quite carry over to characters like Fury, or Ghost Rider who you have ranked higher. Ant-Man is another good example of a pretty solid 4* character that loses a lot of value because he doesn't boost well. On the other hand, someone like Flaptain is regarded as bottom tier, but boosted that Yellow->Red combo can really ruin someone's day.

    How a character scales with boosting should be a HUGE consideration when determining 4* champ order - especially when you consider higher tier play where an unboosted 4* suddenly makes your defensive powerhouse a cupcake.

    Ability damage improvement across levels is an equation, and if the equation uses a higher damage/ap ratio then the abilities with the best ap/damage ratios will always be better. Thing's are some of the lowest I have on my list. I agree that Ghostrider's black misses out, but why would you discount Nick's blue? My Nick buffed does around 25k damage (possibly 50k if they match 2 traps in one match ) if I recall when his blue goes off, right now my buffed Thing's red does around 9k with either of his red or green. Nick's purple does bad damage, but it drains 9 ap of their strongest color AND drops a great strike tile.

    Now if there is some difference to how damage scales with certain abilities like tile nukes, then I haven't heard of it.
    Dauthi wrote:
    I am also trying to give as much hard facts like damage numbers for characters to prove it, unlike other rankings/guides. For instance, while you can't exactly calculate Thing's yellow worth, I am surprised so many people think his red/green are good. As I add more characters I hope to show everyone that 400-500 damage/ap is low/average. Maybe because he is so big and buff looking when he makes a punch animation people are more impressed? It's pretty interesting.

    One of the things with Thing is he alters the way you have to attack, which has intangible value. Especially when boosted, you can't target your nukes on anyone but him until he's whittled down. The value of his red also goes beyond just the damage, a 2-turn stun has value. That's slightly more tangible but still is outside the numbers of just damage/AP.

    It's also not exactly a 1 to 1 comparison when looking at AoE vs Single target. Listing's GR's green as 603 per AP is accurate only with 3 opponents active, and even then it's not necessarily the preferable option to Thing's green in different game states.

    So overall I think having Thing as a "last to champ" tier isn't a correct eval, especially when you have (generally accepted as) weaker characters like Fury and GR ahead of him.

    At this point though I'll let the list play out. I really just wanted to note the other two rankings, so a 3* transitioner is aware of the other options and make an informed decision based on all of them, including this one.

    My OML sneaks strike tile damage passed buffed Things all day killing squishies. Buffed he only acts on 3k+ damage, so it is entirely possible to save him for last with strike tiles.

    Despite that, remember a new 4* player will likely only have 1 4* buffed at any given time. You don't want a support as your carry, you want someone with serious damage to end the game quickly. This being said, if he is your only buffed 4* you will probably be protecting one of your unbuffed 4*s and that is not a threat. When I fight someone in PVP if all they have is a buffed thing and an unbuffed 4*, I will just kill Thing first since the 4* is not a threat. This means his tank ability isn't as useful for new 4* players. Now if he is hiding a buffed Iceman behind him, yeah, I am not going near that. This is just not likely to happen for new 4* players though.

    I have added that Thing is good for mid tier 4* players, because they can hide their buffed 4* with high damage behind him. However I just don't think new players have anything to gain from hiding buffed 3*s or unbuffed 4*s behind Thing.

    On the other hand, when a buffed Nick drops his blue I am pretty scared. It means someone is probably going to die.

    I think most players will agree that damage is the most valued trait in an ability, look at the top tier characters. Stun's are nice, but a single target stun is only useful in few situations, and in most cases you are probably going to use his red to finish someone, not stun them, which is by far more useful. Stuns are great in situations where you need just 1 or 2 more turns to finish them before they use an ability, but in my experience this doesn't happen too often. I would rather cash in the 2 stuns for an extra 200 damage/ap so I can kill them instead.

    I list each ability as a Nuke or AOE, so the players understand what you just wrote.

    They aren't ahead of him per say, under mid and low tier I am advising all players to not champion these characters. Low tier is do not champion, mid is champion only if you really want to, maybe they have a ton of ISO saved up or something.
    A couple comments on the last few.

    Ghost Rider isn't a great candidate for being champed early, as his best ability, by far, is level-independent on damage.

    And X-23's regeneration depends on her tanking her colors, so her best build depends on team. If she only tanks one color, you definitely want her to have five in red. And my luck with her purple has been far worse than yours. Maybe half the time it's been triggered, in my usage. I never use her without five green. There's some variation with the other two, but it's mostly 5/5/3.


    I have Ghost Rider at Mid Tier, and at the top of Mid Tier I let them know I don't endorse championing these characters unless they really want to, while Low Tier I say do not champion. So I also don't endorse championing him first, but sometimes you get a bad hand and a meh 4* is better than no 4* (if you have spare ISO).

    Thanks, I forgot to mention she has to tank those colors. If she tanks all 3 her healing is ridiculous, but if you miscalculate and she is only tanking 1 it isn't very good. icon_e_biggrin.gif

    I also made my tier explanations bigger, so they catch players eyes. This is a ranking but a lot of other things too. When you are a new player it takes forever to get that first 4*, and I imagine they would want a thorough analysis of the character, not just a number next to them with a sentence or two. icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • MagicMagic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    Star-Lord is not only PvE great so you might want to put him higher then Luke Cage (I don't have a workable version so a guess here), Miles and even Prof X. Try him in the simulator where you can pair him with 2 other championed 4*. For regular PvP he loses a bit of charm but that is a case for many others.

    My go-to team is him with Nova and IceMan. Give it a go in the simulator (or in the new event when all 3 are boosted) and enjoy the show.
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