New content only available to players that don't freeze?

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Pmaster47
Pmaster47 Posts: 11
edited September 2016 in MtGPQ General Discussion
My understanding is that Saheeli Rai will only be available via winning her in PVP correct? No other means to acquire her?

If true does that mean its their new policy to deliberately withhold game content from any player that encounters frequent bugs and only reward their bug free players?

- I'm not here to file a bug report - already did that and plenty of others people have too
- Also not here to complain about the bugs themselves - I work in the software industry myself so I'm not mad at the devs and the game has alot of complex interactions so in general I find the bugs frustrating but I'm a realist

But I am here to question their policy of providing exclusive content you can only win through competition when they cannot (yet) provide a consistently fair playing field for that competition

Would anyone find it acceptable to show up at an actual MTG sanctioned tournament where the judges selected random players and removed cards from their deck?
Or showing up at a sanctioned Madden Tournament where the judges picked random players and took their controllers away?

As much as I enjoy the game and as patient as I'm willing to be while they try to stabilize the game if they start withholding content from me just because I encounter bugs that's probably the last straw and I cant imagine I'm the only one who feels this way.
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  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
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    Pmaster47 wrote:
    My understanding is that Saheeli Rai will only be available via winning her in PVP correct? No other means to acquire her?

    If true does that mean its their new policy to deliberately withhold game content from any player that encounters frequent bugs and only reward their bug free players?

    - I'm not here to file a bug report - already did that and plenty of others people have too
    - Also not here to complain about the bugs themselves - I work in the software industry myself so I'm not mad at the devs and the game has alot of complex interactions so in general I find the bugs frustrating but I'm a realist

    But I am here to question their policy of providing exclusive content you can only win through competition when they cannot (yet) provide a consistently fair playing field for that competition

    Would anyone find it acceptable to show up at an actual MTG sanctioned tournament where the judges selected random players and removed cards from their deck?
    Or showing up at a sanctioned Madden Tournament where the judges picked random players and took their controllers away?

    As much as I enjoy the game and as patient as I'm willing to be while they try to stabilize the game if they start withholding content from me just because I encounter bugs that's probably the last straw and I cant imagine I'm the only one who feels this way.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the freeze bugs are universal and experienced by everyone when they come upon it.
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
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    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the freeze bugs are universal and experienced by everyone when they come upon it.

    Not really universal, tablets especially and some phone models over others experience more freezes. You're just talking about freezes from bugged cards. There are way more bugs in the game than those notorious few cards.

    Also Pmaster47, Rai should be available for crystals purchase many many many weeks down the road. You'll just have to be really patient.
  • Barrelrolla
    Barrelrolla Posts: 289
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    The idea behind this event is that Wizards are trying to promote the game.
    In PQ we get new sets months later usually and we haven't had a card that's not been released on paper before. Kaladesh releases on paper in the end of the month, so people are hyped.
    Making her available to play for a weekend in this game will make a lot of people research it.
    She will not be obtainable after the event, because the marketing campaign will be over. But, hopefully not more than two months from now, when we get the Kaladesh set, she will show up like all other planeswalkers before her: first for real money, three weeks later for crystals.
    So you are not missing her entirely, you are missing an early access. You will be able to get her in 4 months lol
  • Pmaster47
    Pmaster47 Posts: 11
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    They have not acknowledged that she will ever be available later - although I agree it seems likely but also agree it could be months. But for now their wording clearly states she is ONLY available via winning her through the PVP event.

    Losing out on a single Mythic because of a bad run of freezes is one thing - That's happening to all of us and we get to play 2 events a week so some events i don't freeze up and I get my Mythic and some I freeze up and just get a rare - not that big of a deal.

    But to run a single event with a planeswalker as a prize that we cannot acquire any other way and to knowingly reward that prize to the players that happen to encounter the least amount of bugs is a terrible policy on there part. And policy is something they CAN control RIGHT now while they try and get the game more stable.

    They are deliberately punishing whichever players encounter their bugs the most and that's a decision they have full control over and it speaks to how much (or little) they actually care about their player base.
  • Barrelrolla
    Barrelrolla Posts: 289
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    Quite from patch notes:
    "Note that Saheeli Rai will not be available for purchase in the near future."
    So, she will be avaliable for purchase after a few months.
    This is just a promotion for the game.
    But I kinda agree with you. They should increase the reward pool on tier more: top 10 in silver and bronze, 25 gold, 50 platinum because of an OP card that's unbeatable with the lame predefined deck, a card that causes infinite loop and a card that freezes the game. Basically you get the reward if ypu get lucky. Give it to more people, who at least made the effort but got unlucky.
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
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    They did the same thing with Garruk and Tezzeret. You'll have access to Saheeli in a few months most likely.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the freeze bugs are universal and experienced by everyone when they come upon it.

    I agree. I think the game would be even more fair if it froze up more regularly.
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
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    shteev wrote:
    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the freeze bugs are universal and experienced by everyone when they come upon it.

    I agree. I think the game would be even more fair if it froze up more regularly.

    You fail even basic reading comprehension, and I'm glad I'm not the only one now who's noticed you're a sad troll.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Pqmtg- wrote:
    shteev wrote:
    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the freeze bugs are universal and experienced by everyone when they come upon it.

    I agree. I think the game would be even more fair if it froze up more regularly.

    You fail even basic reading comprehension, and I'm glad I'm not the only one now who's noticed you're a sad troll.

    I love it when people define me as a troll, beacuse it means I don't have to interact with them any more, because they don't believe that I believe what I'm saying.

    Now I can get on with providing feedback about the game, hopefully without these tedious interruptions.
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
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    shteev wrote:
    I agree. I think the game would be even more fair if it froze up more regularly.


    You're right about one thing. I don't believe that you believe what you're saying.

    And if you truly do, then based on this alone, you should not be allowed anywhere near a voting or feedback box of any sort.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
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    Pqmtg- wrote:
    shteev wrote:
    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the freeze bugs are universal and experienced by everyone when they come upon it.

    I agree. I think the game would be even more fair if it froze up more regularly.

    You fail even basic reading comprehension, and I'm glad I'm not the only one now who's noticed you're a sad troll.
    Ok so your logic is it affects everyone "equally" so it's not a big problem.

    So I am wondering why devs do care about trying to make a game somehow balanced when the solution is simple.
    Decide the outcome of any match with the roll of a dice.
    It's fair and completely balanced.
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
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    Morphis wrote:
    Pqmtg- wrote:
    shteev wrote:
    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the freeze bugs are universal and experienced by everyone when they come upon it.

    I agree. I think the game would be even more fair if it froze up more regularly.

    You fail even basic reading comprehension, and I'm glad I'm not the only one now who's noticed you're a sad troll.
    Ok so your logic is it affects everyone "equally" so it's not a big problem.

    So I am wondering why devs do care about trying to make a game somehow balanced when the solution is simple.
    Decide the outcome of any match with the roll of a dice.
    It's fair and completely balanced.

    No I'm saying complaining it puts you behind in an event is just looking for an excuse if people ahead of you deal with the chances of freezing as much as you.

    Freezing is annoying and a problem in the game. The fact that the events consists of a good number of games however means that everyone eventually runs the risk of it. It is not a problem for the event placements.

    There is a difference between a game bug and an event breaking bug. Don't drag a game bug in to complain about losing the event if it equally affects everyone.

    This is why I asked if I was wrong about the freezing being a universal constant. Because that's the event problem.

    If winning due to random happen events is counter-intuitive to your idea of a fair and balanced game, I strongly urge you to stay away from card games. Card games with puzzle quest cascade mechanic? Your head might explode. Even without the freezes and bugs.
  • Barrelrolla
    Barrelrolla Posts: 289
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    It's not fair even if the game freezes the same time for every player.
    Let's say I am a player going for a perfect run, but the game freezes 5 times, now I lost 5 games.
    Another player is not so competitive, he's just giving his best. He also has 5 freezes, but the game freezes during games that were not going in his favor anyway and he manages to win the rest.
    This is an extreme scenario, but it is possible. So it pretty much is like throwing a dice and that's not fair.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
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    Any statistic reasoning is based on "infinite" scenario.
    1 out of 6 dice roll will get a 6 as result for istance does not mean is impossible to roll 100 times and not get even a single 6.

    For our event: Out of just what... 50 match in total?(not willing to calculate here) it can easily happen that some will get 0 crash and some(it has already been reported) will get like 5 crash/freezes.
    That's a huge difference for score.

    If all would be guaranteed to get the exact same number of crashes it would have probably a marginal impact(since barrelrolla reasoning is valid too).
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
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    Morphis wrote:
    Any statistic reasoning is based on "infinite" scenario.
    1 out of 6 dice roll will get a 6 as result for istance does not mean is impossible to roll 100 times and not get even a single 6.

    For our event: Out of just what... 50 match in total?(not willing to calculate here) it can easily happen that some will get 0 crash and some(it has already been reported) will get like 5 crash/freezes.
    That's a huge difference for score.

    If all would be guaranteed to get the exact same number of crashes it would have probably a marginal impact(since barrelrolla reasoning is valid too).

    Expected value. That's all that determines the fairness. Again, that's why I asked the question. Is freezing a constant for everyone? Or do some freeze and others never do? That's all that matters.

    Your arguments boils down to an increase in volatility, but that has nothing to do with fairness. I know it sounds like it's unfair, but it's about as unfair as you and I betting on 100 tosses of an even coin, and you coming out ahead.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Barrelrolla wrote:
    It's not fair even if the game freezes the same time for every player.
    Let's say I am a player going for a perfect run, but the game freezes 5 times, now I lost 5 games.
    Another player is not so competitive, he's just giving his best. He also has 5 freezes, but the game freezes during games that were not going in his favor anyway and he manages to win the rest.
    This is an extreme scenario, but it is possible. So it pretty much is like throwing a dice and that's not fair.

    Hear hear. Players are spending real money on cards for this event and they are winning prizes will will affect their collection for as long as they continue to play, and if it genuinely is 'fair' that the whole thing is as random as tossing a coin, then those players should be told up front that that is the kind of game of chance they are getting into.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
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    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Morphis wrote:
    Any statistic reasoning is based on "infinite" scenario.
    1 out of 6 dice roll will get a 6 as result for istance does not mean is impossible to roll 100 times and not get even a single 6.

    For our event: Out of just what... 50 match in total?(not willing to calculate here) it can easily happen that some will get 0 crash and some(it has already been reported) will get like 5 crash/freezes.
    That's a huge difference for score.

    If all would be guaranteed to get the exact same number of crashes it would have probably a marginal impact(since barrelrolla reasoning is valid too).

    Expected value. That's all that determines the fairness. Again, that's why I asked the question. Is freezing a constant for everyone? Or do some freeze and others never do? That's all that matters.

    Your arguments boils down to an increase in volatility, but that has nothing to do with fairness. I know it sounds like it's unfair, but it's about as unfair as you and I betting on 100 tosses of an even coin, and you coming out ahead.
    Freezing is not equal for everyone.

    Also it looks like you miss the point here.

    Let's say there is an archery competition. We are not even in the finals, we are qualifying.
    There are many favored for medals, many that will "surely" not even pass the turn.
    During the match strong wind starts to blow completely at random in an unpredictable way.

    Who do you think have more chances of getting benefit from it?
    Who do you think has more chances to get screwed by it?
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
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    Morphis wrote:
    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Morphis wrote:
    Any statistic reasoning is based on "infinite" scenario.
    1 out of 6 dice roll will get a 6 as result for istance does not mean is impossible to roll 100 times and not get even a single 6.

    For our event: Out of just what... 50 match in total?(not willing to calculate here) it can easily happen that some will get 0 crash and some(it has already been reported) will get like 5 crash/freezes.
    That's a huge difference for score.

    If all would be guaranteed to get the exact same number of crashes it would have probably a marginal impact(since barrelrolla reasoning is valid too).

    Expected value. That's all that determines the fairness. Again, that's why I asked the question. Is freezing a constant for everyone? Or do some freeze and others never do? That's all that matters.

    Your arguments boils down to an increase in volatility, but that has nothing to do with fairness. I know it sounds like it's unfair, but it's about as unfair as you and I betting on 100 tosses of an even coin, and you coming out ahead.
    Freezing is not equal for everyone.

    Also it looks like you miss the point here.

    Let's say there is an archery competition. We are not even in the finals, we are qualifying.
    There are many favored for medals, many that will "surely" not even pass the turn.
    During the match strong wind starts to blow completely at random in an unpredictable way.

    Who do you think have more chances of getting benefit from it?
    Who do you think has more chances to get screwed by it?


    Ah, the beauty of sportsmanship, where everyone has a lock on the crown and it's all the wind's fault.

    Let's reverse this and ask you what you think of the archer that complains about the win costing him his qualification, and whines about how the champion got gold because the wind blowing wildly favours the one who sucks.

    Volatility is a ****, but she's an equal opportunity screw upper. The game would be better without the unintended volatility freezing screwing it up, but it's fair. A bad game can still be a fair one. If you lose in a bad game, you can't automatically blame it for being unfair.

    The ones ahead never considers the possibility that he's there because of blind luck due to volatility. When the pendulum swings, all he sees is unfairness everywhere.
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2016
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    The more I read your comments the more it looks like you just want to enforce your thinking.
    How would I feel if I was gold medal and people claimed it was wind fault?

    That they have EVERY REASON to complain.

    What if I make to top 10 and get shaleeri and the 11th cries about it?
    He has every right to do so.

    It could be he got screwed more than me.
    It could be I got screwed more than him and still placed higher.
    It could be anything.
    This does not make it necessarily fair, only fair(not even that guaranteed) over the totality of participants(for the big numbers law).
    In this context It does not matter. This is a "player vs player" event. Every participant just care about his own result(and coalition but those two coincide). That's simply natural.

    Even If the volatility is adjusted on the average value with peaks is NOT FAIR.
    Especially For each of this peaks it is totally unfair.

    Its like I don't know 10 employees...
    Each should get 1000$ as salary
    8 get 1000
    1 gets 1500
    1 gets 500.
    (These 2 chosen at random)

    On average they got 1000 each.
    Is that fair?

    Do you think the one that got 500 would not complain cause on average they got 1000 as a group?
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Volatility is a ****, but she's an equal opportunity screw upper. The game would be better without the unintended volatility freezing screwing it up, but it's fair.


    oh hai JC, could you do us a favor and stop hanging around on the forums and fix your game please?

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