Why am I not surprised? [Is Blue Too Powerful?]

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  • Unknown
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    why is that people who favor keeping blue abilities like they are, never argue with facts and mathematics ... its always trashtalking peoples skill or playstyle ... there is more at work than just the planewalker abilitys ... there are the cards available to that planewalker ... and that is the real issue ... 3 loyalty for -6/0 on top of the abilities of blue mythic and rare cards is way too much ... no the -6 isn't permanent but it does not need to be ... only takes 1 turn to kill off most other colors strong creatures ... so yes there is a way to beat jace with any color ... get something on the board that can be competitive even with -6/0 and hope he has no defenders or berserk creature ... how many people have something like that for any deck?
  • Rolandofgilead
    Rolandofgilead Posts: 17
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    IMHO when I see mizzium meddler, I always reset the match. It's ability is just annoying and server no purpose other than making me Rearrange my hand every turn. Literally, just a time waster. No real use unless playing it against a NPC.
  • Rolandofgilead
    Rolandofgilead Posts: 17
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    It's to the point that I always quit a match against most level blue because it just isn't worth the time investment.
  • Unknown
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    I mostly play Gideon. Before the update, Gideon was way to strong but I didn't encounter others than Nissa with usually weak cards. Maybe couple times fought against Jace, and didn't have any problems. Now after the update and Gideon misbalanced, I really rarely win the fight against Jace. And we are speaking here about battle vs computer, I just can Imagine what it would be against real players. As someone said, It's better just to quit the fight. Last night I had battle lasted over 20 minutes and I lost at the end. Out of all, -6 ability for 3 mana is just... idk what to say. I know that game is still in the process of "beta" I am patient, just I would like that you have rebalanced all the plainwalkers, not just Gideon.
  • Rolandofgilead
    Rolandofgilead Posts: 17
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    Ya I use Gideon also. Getting Knight of white orchid n play is my main focus, and kythions irregulars is good too. I noticed white orchid got nerfed from 6/6 to 4/4. First strike and defender/vigilance is amazing though.
  • Unknown
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    Brainstormin wrote:
    Jace is so easy to beat with Chandra and Liliana... Stop playing only Gideon.
    Red can easily destroy supports and black can force them to discard their hand before they can play anything. Plus Claustrophobia is junk now.
    Just like paper magic, certain colors are better against others.

    I have many problems with this game but Blue being too powerful is not one of them.

    This post x1000. This is MTG, it's strategy, you need to adjust. Stop complaining because you feel that your deck should beat everything. Whenever I play blue, red and black wreck me. Even green gives a good fight. I play every color, I take the time to perfect every deck, and because of this, I enjoy the game and love how things are. Gideon is amazing, just not against blue.
  • Unknown
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    Shoeboy wrote:
    Brainstormin wrote:
    Jace is so easy to beat with Chandra and Liliana... Stop playing only Gideon.
    Red can easily destroy supports and black can force them to discard their hand before they can play anything. Plus Claustrophobia is junk now.
    Just like paper magic, certain colors are better against others.

    I have many problems with this game but Blue being too powerful is not one of them.

    This post x1000. This is MTG, it's strategy, you need to adjust. Stop complaining because you feel that your deck should beat everything. Whenever I play blue, red and black wreck me. Even green gives a good fight. I play every color, I take the time to perfect every deck, and because of this, I enjoy the game and love how things are. Gideon is amazing, just not against blue.

    here we go with the trash talking peoples skill ... that is not the issue here ... no other planewalker can remove an active creature from play for 3 loyalty ... I think most of us complaining about Jace would be just fine with his abilities if they didn't cost so little ... id even favor switching Jace's 1st and 2nd tier abilities ... we get that you need to use more than one deck ... we get that you have to change out cards for specific things ... but you get no chance to see who your playing against till the match starts ... so no option to sideboard ... no option to change decks ... this game is so far removed from M:TG the only thing the same is the cards ... mana is not gained from playing land ... there is no mana cap (unless you run out of cards or space for loyalty) ... or mana burn from taking too much mana ... you can charge up cards and hold them ... there are no interrupts/instants ... no upkeep ... so yet again ... if Giddion cant have lifelink at 3rd tier (an ability that has never won me a match ... only allowed me to finish with full health and keep battling) ... then why does Jace get to keep -6/-0 for 3 loyalty?
  • Unknown
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    maybe I should explain a little better

    its math people ... simple math

    until your planewalkers health reaches 0 it has no effect on the game ... you can win with 1 hp left

    white planewalker abilities converge to form creatures with flying vigilant berserk and what used to be lifelink

    the fatties from white all either defend or first strike (scab clan being the exception to this with haste)

    so a good pvp white deck if you get your best cards out ... correction 1 good card ... ill use isora's as that's my main card ... dual firststrike flying vigilant berserk lifelink ... if you cant kill my first strike buffed card ... you can not damage me in any manner other than planewalker abilities ... supports that do damage ... and direct damage spell cards ... so no matter what color ... if I get isora's out and have saved up loyalty ... 1 turn play isora's ... 2nd turn champion ... 3rd turn vigilance ... at this point you can not out damage me with supports spells or abilities (one exception ... red with fireball and a hand full of lightning can dish out 25 hp in a single round ... but yould have to have 5 lightning and a charged fireball)

    so until my isora's is dead my hp total does not matter 1 hp or full health a win is a win

    just off those abilities and the card ... end of 3rd turn ... 9/9 first strike berserk flying vigilant ... if you cant bring out a card with 18 health in a single turn ... your cards dies defending from isora's or in attacking it ...

    that should be what all white decks are built around (not the card but Giddions abilities) ... so in effect ... lifelink only helps white to keep battling ... admittedly a unfair advantage in the tourney's but not in a match ...

    so now we have regen instead of lifelink ... wow ... actually even better as far as matchplay is concerned ... cause now you cant whittle down my first strikers ... cause they regen ... awesome

    but all in all this has NOTHING to do with Jace getting -6/-0 for 3 loyalty ... to do what I described earlier takes on average about 6 or 7 turns (unless you get lucky with a colossal cascade) ... and a total of 27 loyalty ... now that same beefy 9/9 dual first strike is a 3/9 first strike for 3 loyalty ...

    from 4/4 to 9/9 in 6 turns for 27 mana ... vs 9/9 to 3/9 for 3 mana

    admittedly the -6/-0 is not permanent but it does not need to be ... a 4/4 dual first strike will kill itself on a 4/4 with level 1 Jace giving -3/-0 ...
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    correction*

    from 4/4 to 9/9 in 6 turns for 27 loyalty ... vs 9/9 to 3/9 for 3 loyalty
  • Tiburon
    Tiburon Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
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    Didn't read the entire thread but this is exactly what I came here to **** about myself.

    Blue's cards are so woefully over powered and ridiculously cheap. White are supposed to be the low cost cards, but nothing can match blue.

    9 for Mizzium Meddler is just insane for the power/health of this card alone...4/7 ****?
    I realize this isn't full MTG, but 1/4 as it is on the card is way more acceptable.

    Then we get to its effect, which is just outright silly itself. I get you need to put your intended card on the bottom, but this card literally can screw an entire game itself. Theres no way to kill a 4/7 mob outright, and by the time you saved up mana to nuke or dispatch of this mob, the game is over.

    I'll be honest, I just quit if I can't kill it in a few rounds its not worth the time playing other rounds wasted on **** around with PITA blue decks.
  • Unknown
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    I wasn't going to add anything else to this thread, but I have to say that Blue, as a whole, is not OP. I finally got the last card I really wanted for my Blue deck, Talent of the Telepath, and while I can be even more surgical with it, it sucks in QB. Speed is the key in QB and Blue, I have found, is woefully slow. Ever since the bounce change I've found my Blue deck less fun.

    Mizzium Meddler is one card and, while annoying, isn't insurmountable. It definitely needs to be nerfed but that doesn't make Blue OP.
  • Meto5000
    Meto5000 Posts: 583
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    kore wrote:
    I wasn't going to add anything else to this thread, but I have to say that Blue, as a whole, is not OP. I finally got the last card I really wanted for my Blue deck, Talent of the Telepath, and while I can be even more surgical with it, it sucks in QB. Speed is the key in QB and Blue, I have found, is woefully slow. Ever since the bounce change I've found my Blue deck less fun.

    Blue is my least favorite deck to play against in QB though for the same reason: It's woefully slow. I win against blue at roughly the same rate as other colors, it just typically takes 2-3x as long to do so.
  • Unknown
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    Meto5000 wrote:
    kore wrote:
    I wasn't going to add anything else to this thread, but I have to say that Blue, as a whole, is not OP. I finally got the last card I really wanted for my Blue deck, Talent of the Telepath, and while I can be even more surgical with it, it sucks in QB. Speed is the key in QB and Blue, I have found, is woefully slow. Ever since the bounce change I've found my Blue deck less fun.

    Blue is my least favorite deck to play against in QB though for the same reason: It's woefully slow. I win against blue at roughly the same rate as other colors, it just typically takes 2-3x as long to do so.

    True. But that doesn't make it OP. It's more of a troll. icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • Unknown
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    still cant see what im saying ... no other color has such a powerful 1st tier ability except maybe black ... red is 3 damage to planewalker and the chance to get mana, loyalty or remove supports for 6 loyalty ... oh but its just as likely you get nothing but the 3 damage on the opposing planewalker ... and can screw you by not giving any mana ... killing off your own supports and setting up the opponent for a huge cascade ... white is +1/+1 flying vigilance for 9 loyalty ... great buff but forces it to stand in front of all your opponants creatures and take damage till its dead ... only good for creatures with regen or firststrike ... green ... draw 1 get 3 mana and convert 3 gems to green for 6 loyalty ... cool you get a new card but just like with red ... the convert 3 to green has a habbit of setting up your opponent for gaining more mana if it doesn't cause a cascade during conversion ... black ... discard one card to destroy first and last card in opponants hand for 6 loyalty ... wow ... just wow ... concidering that the only spot you can add mana to a card is the first spot ... this is just as ridicules as blues ability ... but at least it costs 6 like whites ... then blue at 3 loyalty ... -6/-0 ... seems pretty tame in comparing descriptions ... but 3 loyalty makes it pop off 2 or 3 times faster than any other color

    to keep 3 loyalty ... just a single 3 gem on color match is all it takes to keep the ability to spam -6/-0 every turn ...

    no other color can use its first tier ability with the ease of blue ... and its effect is most profound ... it does not need to add any ability ... it removes the targeted cards ability to do damage ... it does not need to last for more than a full turn ... because math is at the foundation of every aspect that can win the game for you ... cause in the end it comes down to who hits 0 hp first loses ... nothing else matters to the win ... not how many cards you did or did not use ... whether your deck is full of mythics or a fresh stacked deck starting at level 1 with no boosters ... 0 is dead and that ends the match ...

    no ability should have the potential to be used every turn
  • Unknown
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    Argent666 wrote:
    ... cool you get a new card but just like with red ... the convert 3 to green has a habbit of setting up your opponent for gaining more mana if it doesn't cause a cascade during conversion ... black ... discard one card to destroy first and last card in opponants hand for 6 loyalty ... wow ... just wow ...
    How can a PW ability set up your opponent for more mana income? You can only use abilities before you match, so you are always the first to benefit from it.

    And black.... That's not how the 3rd rank of it works. You have to sacrifice 2 of your cards. Only the 2nd rank will trade you 2 for 1. And honestly it's not that hard to go around the 3rd rank. Just keep a low mana spell loaded in the first spot of your hand. That way nothing happens to the high mana card in your 2nd spot.

    To red. I almost never use her 1st ability. I find her 2nd way more important. We all know how easy it is to kill red when she spams her 1st cause that's all what ai does with her.
  • Unknown
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    Nerimos wrote:
    Argent666 wrote:
    ... cool you get a new card but just like with red ... the convert 3 to green has a habbit of setting up your opponent for gaining more mana if it doesn't cause a cascade during conversion ... black ... discard one card to destroy first and last card in opponants hand for 6 loyalty ... wow ... just wow ...
    How can a PW ability set up your opponent for more mana income? You can only use abilities before you match, so you are always the first to benefit from it.

    And black.... That's not how the 3rd rank of it works. You have to sacrifice 2 of your cards. Only the 2nd rank will trade you 2 for 1. And honestly it's not that hard to go around the 3rd rank. Just keep a low mana spell loaded in the first spot of your hand. That way nothing happens to the high mana card in your 2nd spot.

    To red. I almost never use her 1st ability. I find her 2nd way more important. We all know how easy it is to kill red when she spams her 1st cause that's all what ai does with her.

    I stand corrected on the issue of blacks ability ...

    having said that you must not pay attention to how cascades work if you don't think every ability that changes the color of a gem does not affect future gem matching ...

    playing green just this morning

    I have 2 matches available on the board a 5 gem blue match and a 3 gem green match ... when the conversion happens I lose one of those matches cause it converted one of the gems in that match to green ... the match was blue but now has a green gem where the blue gem to make the match used to be ... so my use of the ability removes the match I did have for a second swap match ... leaving me with the other match ... 3 gems for 5 mana ... but my match drops in place and leaves a 5 gem match for my opponent ... I see this quite often with conversion supports and destruction abilities of red and some spells/creatures ... the puzzle part of the game is almost more important than cards themselves ... if you cant match for mana or only can get bad matches (colors that either take away mana or don't give a bonus in the case of maxed out planewalkers) or loyalty matches ... nothing you have in your hand will reach the board ... my point being ... abilities that affect gem color are not guaranteed to benefit you ...

    but abilities like whites vigilance and blues confusion never randomly benefit your opponent ... it may benefit them by design (like using vigilance just to have your opponent pop a fetid imp and kill it off anyway) not randomly but because of what cards both sides are using ...

    only the gem changing seems to be an ability that does not allway work the way its suppose to ... what good is getting 3 gems converted to green if there is not already green on the board ... ive never seen it change 3 in a row to green for a match when there is no green on the board

    so really its just a lottery ticket ... hope I make a match and hope it don't set my opponent up for a cascade

    and one more time ... lets leave people skill and playstyle out of this conversation about the mathematics and game rules
  • Unknown
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    Argent666 wrote:
    having said that you must not pay attention to how cascades work if you don't think every ability that changes the color of a gem does not affect future gem matching ...
    I didn't say that it doesn't affect future gem matching. I just disagree that your opponent benefits that often from you using that ability, because it's still your turn after the change. The only thing that can happen from time to time is that it can weaken your supports.

    But don't get me wrong. It's totally different for changes of colors that happen after you summon creatures.

    As for your example: why not just match the 5 blues and then use Nissas ability afterwards?
  • Unknown
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    Potentially giving my opponent a better match with Nissa's first ability is a risk I'm absolutely willing to take. You get 3 mana and get to draw a card and might get some insane cascades? Worth it! It would be even more bonkers without that downside.

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