Ok, we get the message: we should stop playing

Unknown · January 2015

ark123 wrote:

Yeah there's no way people are still playing my bracket. I have a 10k lead. Everyone else is around 28k - yep, about one or two nodes over what I said before.

My bracket looks like 46K, 46K, 45K (me), 42K, and then 40-37K for top 10. I didn't get any nodes in before going to sleep yesterday and this puts everyone in a bad position since the top 2 are too close for people to let go, though even if I picked up another 2K it'd just be swapping the current #2 with my position. I'm curious how things look like below top 10. It seems like positions that are not in danger of being competitive (e.g. 4-8, 13-18) people just mutually back off because why grind when you can't move up and not in danger of dropping a tier? Of course, #3 is a pretty bad position to be in, but I was only going for top 10 so whatever.

welbot · January 2015

The AI in this game seems to be getting worse every time I play it. I've been playing a while (almost a year), but some days I swear I just wanna HULK SMASH the hell out of it. It seems to come and go in waves. For a week or so, fights will be reasonable, but then the next week (or like today for instance) I put up 3x lvl 60 characters, against 3x lvl 30 characters (one hero and 2 soldier types) and I get beaten worse than Tina Turner. Why the hell does it do this? I understand that you can't expect to win all fights, and the occasional defeat is fine, but now this wave of **** has begun, my whole week will be riddled with ridiculous cheating AI wins. $:\$
I just had my third instance of the aforementioned ridiculousness for the day. If my characters were even closely matched in terms of levels, to the opponents I put them up against, it wouldn't bother me, but sometimes when my characters are healing, I have no choice but to use characters that are of a higher level to fight, just so I can continue on rather than having to wait. I know (and am ok with) the events scaling up a bit if I do something silly like use lvl 100 chars to beat lvl 20's, but when I use characters that are double the lvl of the opponents I'm fighting, I expect to win. I don't even come CLOSE to winning on days like this. The match I just had should have been a piece of cake, but I got all of about 4 turns, and the AI got drop after drop of chain matches, followed by using 3-6 powers PER TURN! Such garbage! Please do something about it. It's extremely infuriating!

Unknown · January 2015

Mau-- wrote:

You know it's bad when I slept for 10 hours and didn't even drop a spot.

I know how you feel. In the first set of subs I was top ranked when I went to sleep and only fell about 2 ranks when I woke up which is usually unheard of in a pve event. It really would be funny if D3 finally makes a response later saying that this scaling is "working as intended" though they are losing player base as a bunch of people aren't doing anything during this pve event. If featured boosted characters levels determine the scaling I really hope that D3 no longer boosts characters for pve events.

Bowgentle · January 2015

lhkatsu wrote:

Mau-- wrote:

You know it's bad when I slept for 10 hours and didn't even drop a spot.

I know how you feel. In the first set of subs I was top ranked when I went to sleep and only fell about 2 ranks when I woke up which is usually unheard of in a pve event. It really would be funny if D3 finally makes a response later saying that this scaling is "working as intended" though they are losing player base as a bunch of people aren't doing anything during this pve event. If featured boosted characters levels determine the scaling I really hope that D3 no longer boosts characters for pve events.

They're certainly not losing players - they've always relied on new players coming in, so a few vets not playing PVE anymore is just a drop in the bucket.

After just accepting that hard really means "hard" in Simulator, I'm sticking to one full clear of normal plus 5 nodes in hard whenever I can be bothered, no double or triple clears before bed, missing a ton of refreshes... and am in t5 in the main now.
I guess being able to do 5 nodes in hard is more than most people can do, which is a pleasant surprise.

Unknown · January 2015

FaerieMyst wrote:

So what you all are saying is that no one can play the hard mode.

Excellent. More room for me at the top.

This is the most mind numbing tedious week of the year at work. At least something will be a challenge.

wait you to drop death and cry like a girl

dider152 · January 2015

I like to play nodes multiple times till I get all 4 rewards on that node. I would think everyone does that, until they get the green checkmark. I was able to do the normal one, no problem, and was able to just barely cheese my way to a full clear first run on all the nodes in the hard one. The scaling is ridiculous, and I get it, hard means hard, but damn, if it's not impossible. For two days now, I have remained in the top ten, with hardly playing. I am number six today, and only dropped from number 5 since 8 PM yesterday. Nobody is bothering playing these nodes, so I think D3 should look at the way it does difficulty.

SnowcaTT · January 2015

dider152 wrote:

I like to play nodes multiple times till I get all 4 rewards on that node. I would think everyone does that, until they get the green checkmark. I was able to do the normal one, no problem, and was able to just barely cheese my way to a full clear first run on all the nodes in the hard one. The scaling is ridiculous, and I get it, hard means hard, but damn, if it's not impossible. For two days now, I have remained in the top ten, with hardly playing. I am number six today, and only dropped from number 5 since 8 PM yesterday. Nobody is bothering playing these nodes, so I think D3 should look at the way it does difficulty.

Agreed. My 10 normal nodes scale from level 15 to level 123. 123 is easy?!?
My hard nodes scale from 129 to God knows what, can't make it that high. I've played exactly four nodes one time and I'm sitting top 100 in the sub - that indicates people either can't or aren't playing them.

I have no problem with people that have higher rosters finishing higher in points than I do, nor would I ever have had a problem with that. But when folks in high-end alliances are in here saying they aren't grinding the nodes because it is to difficult - the highest teams should be able to take the highest nodes. Why not just scale nodes and points?

Easy: node 1- level 1 (100 points) through node 10 level 94 (500 points): 1*'s can do it a bit and 2*'s can clear it.
Hard: node 1 - level 100 (500 points) through node 10 level 166 (1000 points): Transitioners can do it a bit and 3*'s can clear it.

Then you've made it so the highest rosters will get the highest points if they put in the effort (as should be the case!). But if they put in little effort, you've still made it possible for anyone to compete with more effort in the nodes they can do. Even more-so if you double the reward's handed out for these.

DD-The-Mighty · January 2015

Whub Whubz wrote:

Game is suppose to be about resources management, having scaling off makes that nonexistent and breaks the risk reward ratio in the game... You aren't suppose to be first in both slices LOL
Maybe scaling bugged because it counted all those trivial clears everyone did while it was broken trying to get ahead by grinding all the nodes while they still could.

That would be true if the "risk" was worth the "reward". You must be one of those middle row 2 star players so every 2* token is a delightful treat.... Try that argument again when its time to cover up and max level 3 and 4*s.

Bowgentle · January 2015

SnowcaTT wrote:

I have no problem with people that have higher rosters finishing higher in points than I do, nor would I ever have had a problem with that. But when folks in high-end alliances are in here saying they aren't grinding the nodes because it is to difficult - the highest teams should be able to take the highest nodes. Why not just scale nodes and points?

Easy: node 1- level 1 (100 points) through node 10 level 94 (500 points): 1*'s can do it a bit and 2*'s can clear it.
Hard: node 1 - level 100 (500 points) through node 10 level 166 (1000 points): Transitioners can do it a bit and 3*'s can clear it.

Then you've made it so the highest rosters will get the highest points if they put in the effort (as should be the case!). But if they put in little effort, you've still made it possible for anyone to compete with more effort in the nodes they can do. Even more-so if you double the reward's handed out for these.

It used to be like that.
The reason for changing to scaling was, I think, "people should not be locked out of the story because they can't beat the nodes".

Which translates to "we want the new players to see everything because we make money off them, while vets and transitioners can go die somewhere because they're worth nothing to us, so we'll just scale them out until they finally leave".

I still don't get it why they don't dare do like every other game out there, make high level content that simply tells new players "this is too difficult for you right now, but if you build your roster, you can come back in a month and beat this content."
To give people something to work for, to give a reason to build your roster.

Instead MPQ goes the other way, punishing people for building their rosters by giving them Level 395 enemies which you then have to beat for a whole week straight.

This game would be so much more enjoyable if I was rewarded for being a vet, instead of being punished for being here for a year.
Like in Puzzle And Dragons, where you have hard descends, that you need specific monsters to beat... and if you don't have them, you can't beat them. Period.
It _does_ work for F2P games to lock people out - which is what MPQ does, but instead of locking out people who are just getting started, they're locking out their most loyal players.
It's completely backwards and frustrating.

BTW that Mystique hard sub is batshit insane.

Unknown · January 2015

Bowgentle wrote:

I still don't get it why they don't dare do like every other game out there, make high level content that simply tells new players "this is too difficult for you right now, but if you build your roster, you can come back in a month and beat this content."

Well most games do this since it also allows you to get more "ISO" required to level up more powerful characters without making leveling the low level ones trial. I would still like D3 to tell us how long should it take for a new player to max a 1* character and how long it should take a veteran to max a 3* and 4* ones. Both in terms of time to collect the covers and to gain the ISO.

Unknown · January 2015

Bowgentle wrote:

I still don't get it why they don't dare do like every other game out there, make high level content that simply tells new players "this is too difficult for you right now, but if you build your roster, you can come back in a month and beat this content."

This would work only if there was easier content was only doable for those with weaker roster. Or lower tier rewards were actually useful. Otherwise it turns into "Here, this one is too hard for you, but you have easy sub for you here. Oh... all top spots are also taken by vets who just steamroll them, umm.... but you still win more 2* covers! If you build 3 oBW she totally will turn into 3* Grey Widow!... or not.'.

MPQ can't afford having locked content for lower rosters because lower tier rewards (2* covers) can not be transferred into progress. So if you had content that had people stuck only winning covers of level they already are at, you stall the game. If you could 'disenchant' low tier covers to build high level ones, yeah, that would work. But it's not like other games like Heartstone manage to make it work, right?

Unknown · January 2015

Scaling is good. It's the only way to control grinding. If nodes are hard enough that I can only complete 1-2 passes per sub I'm all for it. Challenge is what makes this game fun.

And if you're worried about missing story, don't. Guarantee you'll have 20 more chances to play the same PVE events in 2015

Unknown · January 2015

So I wasn't crazy...I qued up the event, worked my way to the 2k ISO event and went from fighting level 160ish heros to level 368 goons. I had to pull out my A game, but then I anally **** the computer (they were goons) and didn't take any damage hahaha.

With that said, I think its **** that the game scales so hard in general. They mention that they understand all characters aren't going to be great for PvP - that's fine and acceptable to me, but when I'm fighting level 300+in PvE, you're going to get XF/Hood/(LThor/Daken). Honestly, even survival mode the way it's setup, still favors the current top tier.

Either they need to do a major re-balancing on healing/defense in the game, or they need to toy around with scaling more. I'd feel different about the difficulties if I wasn't forced to use someone with Wolverine DNA due to self-heal, if She-Hulk/spiderman/Beast felt worth leveling because their group heal was strong enough to keep you alive, or Falcon/Bullseye/SteveRogers/IW/etc were able to setup their defenses more effectively/quicker to help deal with the incoming onslaught of damage/strike tiles/etc. then it would feel like a more 'fair' fight. As it stands now, PvE has devolved to the same thing has PvP - Super high/quick damage + shake up/cascade with self heal. If they aren't going to do a defensive re-balance (they aren't), then make the fights more fair, period.
- Unreall

simonsez · January 2015

SUPERTOM wrote:

Scaling is good. It's the only way to control grinding.

It doesn't control grinding at all. It just makes it more expensive.

scottee · January 2015

simonsez wrote:

SUPERTOM wrote:

Scaling is good. It's the only way to control grinding.

It doesn't control grinding at all. It just makes it more expensive.

It controls grinding in that you don't have 500 out of 1000 people with 2000 points of each other the last day because everyone can beat everything. The top 2% grinding is a lot different than the top 50% grinding.

Unknown · January 2015

Grinding is absolutely reduced due to scaling. Where's the guy that's doing all the hard nodes every refresh? There's no such guy outside of scaling anomalies because it'd likely cost you way more HP than whatever you can possibly hope to get out of this event. As long as grinding is perceived to give a significant advantage, people won't stop doing it no matter how much they complain about it. During the bugged low scaling time it's easy to verify the virtual tie between a whole mess of people who did every node every refresh. I thought people hate grinding, so why didn't people just say no? Because you can do it to give you an advantage. Ignoring the different scaling issue (that's been a problem with every event, not just this one), the kind of scaling in this event is just about right to actually put a dent on the grind.

For the story argument, I remember back in The Hulk a lot of people couldn't beat the final node to see how the story ended because it had a level 230 Ragnarok and Juggernaut and that was a pre nerf 2 AP Thunderclap Ragnarok too and were asking how did The Hulk end. So the story element is a valid concern, but an easy way to fix this would be the first time you do any node the scaling is turned off so you can see how it plays out. I guess for the Simulator type 'iso jackpot' they can leave it on throughout because the point is supposed to be doing a few hard nodes to get the 2000 iso.

By the way, in my Simulator Hard I found out that level 392 is considered Hard while level 395 is considered Deadly for my roster. I'm really curious how they determine these things...

simonsez · January 2015

scottee wrote:

It controls grinding in that you don't have 500 out of 1000 people with 2000 points of each other the last day because everyone can beat everything. The top 2% grinding is a lot different than the top 50% grinding.

If I'm looking to place in the top 2, or even the top 10, it doesn't make it any easier if 20 people are going hard for it instead of 200. Either way, I'm going to have to hit every refresh like clockwork, 24/7, because if I don't, there are still enough other people who are, who will knock me out of the placing I'm looking for.

simonsez · January 2015

Phantron wrote:

Grinding is absolutely reduced due to scaling.

Overall yes, but I'm talking about those who are looking for a high placing. It used to be you just needed to be willing to sacrifice sleep. Now you need to be willing to spend a ton of iso on boosts, and most likely spend hp on health packs and rainbow boosts.

And maybe we should define "grinding". Yes, I'm playing fewer nodes, but the ones I am playing require so much more thought and planning, each cycle is taking far longer than the typical PvE. So you might say I'm grinding less because I'm skipping some nodes, but from my perspective, it feels like way more of a grind.

scottee · January 2015

simonsez wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Grinding is absolutely reduced due to scaling.

Overall yes, but I'm talking about those who are looking for a high placing. It used to be you just needed to be willing to sacrifice sleep. Now you need to be willing to spend a ton of iso on boosts, and most likely spend hp on health packs and rainbow boosts.

And maybe we should define "grinding". Yes, I'm playing fewer nodes, but the ones I am playing require so much more thought and planning, each cycle is taking far longer than the typical PvE. So you might say I'm grinding less because I'm skipping some nodes, but from my perspective, it feels like way more of a grind.

I think you're fighting above your pay grade then. If you have to boost to beat PVE nodes, it's not worth it.

But yes, trying to achieve top rankings is pretty much always going to feel like a grind. It's the nature of competition. It's not about putting in a certain level of effort. It's about putting in more effort than the other 95% or 98%, whatever ranking you're trying to get.

Bowgentle · January 2015

scottee wrote:

I think you're fighting above your pay grade then. If you have to boost to beat PVE nodes, it's not worth it.

My essentials in hard are level 265.
I have the choice to either boost for a 75% chance to beat them with only one character half dead, or not boost for a 100% chance to use 3 HPs after the fight.

Or give up on placement altogether, which probably would be the smart choice, yes.

Ok, we get the message: we should stop playing

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