fidsah wrote: So, what you're saying, is that in society, it should be acceptable for the police to demand that you prove your innocence on any night you might have been home alone doing nothing if a crime occurred, rather than them having to gather proper evidence that might lead them to the real criminal. I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Honest people don't need to prove their honesty. Presumption of innocence exists for a damn good reason. If the cops come to my house looking to question me about a murder I don't even know about, they can schedule an appointment with my lawyer. I'm not about to play some detective's game of proving I didn't do it. That's not how it works. Just ask the West Memphis Three.
gamar wrote: fidsah wrote: So, what you're saying, is that in society, it should be acceptable for the police to demand that you prove your innocence on any night you might have been home alone doing nothing if a crime occurred, rather than them having to gather proper evidence that might lead them to the real criminal. I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Honest people don't need to prove their honesty. Presumption of innocence exists for a damn good reason. If the cops come to my house looking to question me about a murder I don't even know about, they can schedule an appointment with my lawyer. I'm not about to play some detective's game of proving I didn't do it. That's not how it works. Just ask the West Memphis Three. Actually, I think you'll find that unless I'm acting in some capacity where I have legal authority over you, I have no moral or logical responsibility to assume your innocence
LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: So, what you're saying, is that in society, it should be acceptable for the police to demand that you prove your innocence on any night you might have been home alone doing nothing if a crime occurred, rather than them having to gather proper evidence that might lead them to the real criminal. I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Honest people don't need to prove their honesty. Presumption of innocence exists for a damn good reason. If the cops come to my house looking to question me about a murder I don't even know about, they can schedule an appointment with my lawyer. I'm not about to play some detective's game of proving I didn't do it. That's not how it works. Just ask the West Memphis Three. Well if you leave the stolen car parked in your own driveway with the murder weapon in the back seat and you're leaning over the body in your living room, blood smeared on the front door and tell them they don't have a cause for concern . . . .
fidsah wrote: gamar wrote: fidsah wrote: So, what you're saying, is that in society, it should be acceptable for the police to demand that you prove your innocence on any night you might have been home alone doing nothing if a crime occurred, rather than them having to gather proper evidence that might lead them to the real criminal. I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Honest people don't need to prove their honesty. Presumption of innocence exists for a damn good reason. If the cops come to my house looking to question me about a murder I don't even know about, they can schedule an appointment with my lawyer. I'm not about to play some detective's game of proving I didn't do it. That's not how it works. Just ask the West Memphis Three. Actually, I think you'll find that unless I'm acting in some capacity where I have legal authority over you, I have no moral or logical responsibility to assume your innocence Quite untrue, as libel and slander laws will remind you. If you're gonna call someone out for a crime, you'd better have some facts behind it to avoid criminal liability for your actions.
fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: So, what you're saying, is that in society, it should be acceptable for the police to demand that you prove your innocence on any night you might have been home alone doing nothing if a crime occurred, rather than them having to gather proper evidence that might lead them to the real criminal. I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Honest people don't need to prove their honesty. Presumption of innocence exists for a damn good reason. If the cops come to my house looking to question me about a murder I don't even know about, they can schedule an appointment with my lawyer. I'm not about to play some detective's game of proving I didn't do it. That's not how it works. Just ask the West Memphis Three. Well if you leave the stolen car parked in your own driveway with the murder weapon in the back seat and you're leaning over the body in your living room, blood smeared on the front door and tell them they don't have a cause for concern . . . . So if someone frames you for something, you would be happy to plead guilty, right?
LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: So, what you're saying, is that in society, it should be acceptable for the police to demand that you prove your innocence on any night you might have been home alone doing nothing if a crime occurred, rather than them having to gather proper evidence that might lead them to the real criminal. I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Honest people don't need to prove their honesty. Presumption of innocence exists for a damn good reason. If the cops come to my house looking to question me about a murder I don't even know about, they can schedule an appointment with my lawyer. I'm not about to play some detective's game of proving I didn't do it. That's not how it works. Just ask the West Memphis Three. Well if you leave the stolen car parked in your own driveway with the murder weapon in the back seat and you're leaning over the body in your living room, blood smeared on the front door and tell them they don't have a cause for concern . . . . So if someone frames you for something, you would be happy to plead guilty, right? If someone claims to have done something, then tells the judge, 'oh I was just joking, I never would have actually done that' I think they'd have problems to deal with, yes
fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: Well if you leave the stolen car parked in your own driveway with the murder weapon in the back seat and you're leaning over the body in your living room, blood smeared on the front door and tell them they don't have a cause for concern . . . . So if someone frames you for something, you would be happy to plead guilty, right? If someone claims to have done something, then tells the judge, 'oh I was just joking, I never would have actually done that' I think they'd have problems to deal with, yes If I made a claim I was going to do a crime, a DA would not be able to get a conviction on conspiracy unless he was able to prove means, motive, and opportunity. My claims can provide motive. They do not satisfy means or opportunity. If people could be charged for any ol tinykitty they said, cops would do nothing but sit in bars waiting for someone to say they were gonna whoop someone's ****. Edit: Plus, here's a good example. If I tell you I robbed Fort Knox last night, I'm not gonna face any trouble.
LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: Well if you leave the stolen car parked in your own driveway with the murder weapon in the back seat and you're leaning over the body in your living room, blood smeared on the front door and tell them they don't have a cause for concern . . . . So if someone frames you for something, you would be happy to plead guilty, right? If someone claims to have done something, then tells the judge, 'oh I was just joking, I never would have actually done that' I think they'd have problems to deal with, yes
fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: Well if you leave the stolen car parked in your own driveway with the murder weapon in the back seat and you're leaning over the body in your living room, blood smeared on the front door and tell them they don't have a cause for concern . . . . So if someone frames you for something, you would be happy to plead guilty, right?
LoreNYC wrote: Well if you leave the stolen car parked in your own driveway with the murder weapon in the back seat and you're leaning over the body in your living room, blood smeared on the front door and tell them they don't have a cause for concern . . . .
LoreNYC wrote: btw I believe this entire thread is about honesty and transparency. Why would you feel the need to respond in such a way?
fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: btw I believe this entire thread is about honesty and transparency. Why would you feel the need to respond in such a way? The premise of the thread is built around the idea that the innocent must prove their innocence, rather than the guilty being proven guilty. I'm not a member of X-Men, but as a civil libertarian, I find that this premise runs counter to what is healthy for justice. If you have concerns about a specific alliance, report it to Demiurge. If you wanna complain about some tinykitty, complain about some tinykitty. But if someone is going to make a post explaining how the innocent should be required to prove their innocence to the police, I'll again refer you to the West Memphis Three.
fidsah wrote: I'm not a member of X-Men, but as a civil libertarian, I find that this premise runs counter to what is healthy for justice. If you have concerns about a specific alliance, report it to Demiurge. If you wanna complain about some tinykitty, complain about some tinykitty.
LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: btw I believe this entire thread is about honesty and transparency. Why would you feel the need to respond in such a way? The premise of the thread is built around the idea that the innocent must prove their innocence, rather than the guilty being proven guilty. I'm not a member of X-Men, but as a civil libertarian, I find that this premise runs counter to what is healthy for justice. If you have concerns about a specific alliance, report it to Demiurge. If you wanna complain about some tinykitty, complain about some tinykitty. But if someone is going to make a post explaining how the innocent should be required to prove their innocence to the police, I'll again refer you to the West Memphis Three. I don't believe this was in the original post
LoreNYC wrote: btw I believe this entire thread is about honesty and transparency.
ihearthawthats wrote: LoreNYC wrote: btw I believe this entire thread is about honesty and transparency. Even if so, how would an mpq player do so while not revealing his strategies?
fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: fidsah wrote: LoreNYC wrote: btw I believe this entire thread is about honesty and transparency. Why would you feel the need to respond in such a way? The premise of the thread is built around the idea that the innocent must prove their innocence, rather than the guilty being proven guilty. I'm not a member of X-Men, but as a civil libertarian, I find that this premise runs counter to what is healthy for justice. If you have concerns about a specific alliance, report it to Demiurge. If you wanna complain about some tinykitty, complain about some tinykitty. But if someone is going to make a post explaining how the innocent should be required to prove their innocence to the police, I'll again refer you to the West Memphis Three. I don't believe this was in the original post You should reread it then. That's exactly what the real life examples are describing.