MPQ 12th Anniversary Celebrations

@WhiteBomber said:

@jredd said:
not sure why nerfing is required if you're releasing 6* characters? the focus will always shift and stick to the strongest characters. you're going to introduce some nukes and reduce the existing roster effectiveness to possibly deal with them? seems a bit ill conceived, no? nerfing should never be an answer. increase the effectiveness of other characters maybe?

Though I usually agree with "attempt to balance the rest before nerfing", there are some characters who are clearly so far beyond the status quo that they throw off the entire game, and buffing everyone to their greatness is barely possible (especially where we're at with this team right now).

It's not good for them to have 400 useless characters because 5 do everything those ones do, only 20 times better. They could tweak just a few characters, and it would open a wide variety of what's usable.

I too am nervous however, that they will completely ruin some of my strongest characters, but I hold faith for nerfs more akin to Chasm, and definitely not like Sidewinder.

I don't have much hope there. Chasm is the one and only nerf in the history of the game that wasn't crushed by the nerf bat, and he was the new devs first character creation. He was their baby, I'm sure that was a big factor as to why they were gentle with him.

Also many attempts at rebalances in the past have gone completely side ways. The first attempt to nerf gambit actually ended up buffing him, robbie Reyes buffed green is much worse than it originally was, they buffed 4* carnage black so bad that they almost immediately reverted it back to the way it originally was....

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@WhiteBomber said:

@jredd said:
not sure why nerfing is required if you're releasing 6* characters? the focus will always shift and stick to the strongest characters. you're going to introduce some nukes and reduce the existing roster effectiveness to possibly deal with them? seems a bit ill conceived, no? nerfing should never be an answer. increase the effectiveness of other characters maybe?

Though I usually agree with "attempt to balance the rest before nerfing", there are some characters who are clearly so far beyond the status quo that they throw off the entire game, and buffing everyone to their greatness is barely possible (especially where we're at with this team right now).

It's not good for them to have 400 useless characters because 5 do everything those ones do, only 20 times better. They could tweak just a few characters, and it would open a wide variety of what's usable.

I too am nervous however, that they will completely ruin some of my strongest characters, but I hold faith for nerfs more akin to Chasm, and definitely not like Sidewinder.

I don't have much hope there. Chasm is the one and only nerf in the history of the game that wasn't crushed by the nerf bat, and he was the new devs first character creation. He was their baby, I'm sure that was a big factor as to why they were gentle with him.

Also many attempts at rebalances in the past have gone completely side ways. The first attempt to nerf gambit actually ended up buffing him, robbie Reyes buffed green is much worse than it originally was, they buffed 4* carnage black so bad that they almost immediately reverted it back to the way it originally was....

The recent nerf to Nova was one of the biggest in the game's history and it was fairly well received.

What's also true is that Nova was buggy when she was released. So a large part of the fix was just putting her back to what the specs read.

Sidewinder on the other hand was released WAY OP and had to be toned down because of that crazy match damage boost. I'd say Sidewinder is a better example of a fairly well received nerf even if we all secretly loved playing with him for those few days (hes the only character who dramatically sped up PvE times for me as in cut mine in half).

KGB

Shang for me is the best designed character released in years in the old thor mould. Fun and easy to use, easily beaten of defence. Useful in pve but no where near relevant for speed.

Sold in almost as many stores as Dr Strange.

If they nerf him it's a very bad look.

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@WhiteBomber said:

@jredd said:
not sure why nerfing is required if you're releasing 6* characters? the focus will always shift and stick to the strongest characters. you're going to introduce some nukes and reduce the existing roster effectiveness to possibly deal with them? seems a bit ill conceived, no? nerfing should never be an answer. increase the effectiveness of other characters maybe?

Though I usually agree with "attempt to balance the rest before nerfing", there are some characters who are clearly so far beyond the status quo that they throw off the entire game, and buffing everyone to their greatness is barely possible (especially where we're at with this team right now).

It's not good for them to have 400 useless characters because 5 do everything those ones do, only 20 times better. They could tweak just a few characters, and it would open a wide variety of what's usable.

I too am nervous however, that they will completely ruin some of my strongest characters, but I hold faith for nerfs more akin to Chasm, and definitely not like Sidewinder.

I don't have much hope there. Chasm is the one and only nerf in the history of the game that wasn't crushed by the nerf bat, and he was the new devs first character creation. He was their baby, I'm sure that was a big factor as to why they were gentle with him.

Also many attempts at rebalances in the past have gone completely side ways. The first attempt to nerf gambit actually ended up buffing him, robbie Reyes buffed green is much worse than it originally was, they buffed 4* carnage black so bad that they almost immediately reverted it back to the way it originally was....

The recent nerf to Nova was one of the biggest in the game's history and it was fairly well received.

What's also true is that Nova was buggy when she was released. So a large part of the fix was just putting her back to what the specs read.

Sidewinder on the other hand was released WAY OP and had to be toned down because of that crazy match damage boost. I'd say Sidewinder is a better example of a fairly well received nerf even if we all secretly loved playing with him for those few days (hes the only character who dramatically sped up PvE times for me as in cut mine in half).

KGB

See now this is interesting (I share a different perspective for sure). To me, a good nerf is one that leaves the character at least a little desirable to use.

So in this example of Nova VS Sidewinder (all from my personal experience, of course):

1. Nova: Still good, but only used sparingly in PVP and likely used decently in PVE (I use her over May so I don't have to waste AP boosts).
2. Sidewinder: Gone, likely never to be seen again (unless maybe during a buff week and you have him highly ascended).

Based off of this, I consider Nova's the more successful nerf (especially if you consider the dev teams ludicrously loose definition of a successful character release of top 10% value) since she is still new, and you would think you want to experience those new characters, rather than immediately bench them.

You can definitely make the argument that Winder is only a 4 star, but we've seen the 5star stats and I think it's been long enough to know that he isn't coming back, barring some new character who IS good and utilizes his kit beautifully.

I FEEL like the only reason his nerf would have come across as well received at all (which I don't think it was), is because of how broken he was. So, similar to what I mentioned earlier where, it's better that kill 1character for the greater good, but if you guys are seeing Winder being used somewhere, I am just having a different experience.

@WhiteBomber said:

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@WhiteBomber said:

@jredd said:
not sure why nerfing is required if you're releasing 6* characters? the focus will always shift and stick to the strongest characters. you're going to introduce some nukes and reduce the existing roster effectiveness to possibly deal with them? seems a bit ill conceived, no? nerfing should never be an answer. increase the effectiveness of other characters maybe?

Though I usually agree with "attempt to balance the rest before nerfing", there are some characters who are clearly so far beyond the status quo that they throw off the entire game, and buffing everyone to their greatness is barely possible (especially where we're at with this team right now).

It's not good for them to have 400 useless characters because 5 do everything those ones do, only 20 times better. They could tweak just a few characters, and it would open a wide variety of what's usable.

I too am nervous however, that they will completely ruin some of my strongest characters, but I hold faith for nerfs more akin to Chasm, and definitely not like Sidewinder.

I don't have much hope there. Chasm is the one and only nerf in the history of the game that wasn't crushed by the nerf bat, and he was the new devs first character creation. He was their baby, I'm sure that was a big factor as to why they were gentle with him.

Also many attempts at rebalances in the past have gone completely side ways. The first attempt to nerf gambit actually ended up buffing him, robbie Reyes buffed green is much worse than it originally was, they buffed 4* carnage black so bad that they almost immediately reverted it back to the way it originally was....

The recent nerf to Nova was one of the biggest in the game's history and it was fairly well received.

What's also true is that Nova was buggy when she was released. So a large part of the fix was just putting her back to what the specs read.

Sidewinder on the other hand was released WAY OP and had to be toned down because of that crazy match damage boost. I'd say Sidewinder is a better example of a fairly well received nerf even if we all secretly loved playing with him for those few days (hes the only character who dramatically sped up PvE times for me as in cut mine in half).

KGB

See now this is interesting (I share a different perspective for sure). To me, a good nerf is one that leaves the character at least a little desirable to use.

So in this example of Nova VS Sidewinder (all from my personal experience, of course):

1. Nova: Still good, but only used sparingly in PVP and likely used decently in PVE (I use her over May so I don't have to waste AP boosts).
2. Sidewinder: Gone, likely never to be seen again (unless maybe during a buff week and you have him highly ascended).

Based off of this, I consider Nova's the more successful nerf (especially if you consider the dev teams ludicrously loose definition of a successful character release of top 10% value) since she is still new, and you would think you want to experience those new characters, rather than immediately bench them.

You can definitely make the argument that Winder is only a 4 star, but we've seen the 5star stats and I think it's been long enough to know that he isn't coming back, barring some new character who IS good and utilizes his kit beautifully.

I FEEL like the only reason his nerf would have come across as well received at all (which I don't think it was), is because of how broken he was. So, similar to what I mentioned earlier where, it's better that kill 1character for the greater good, but if you guys are seeing Winder being used somewhere, I am just having a different experience.

I agree with what you wrote. I just didn't elaborate enough on why Sidewinders Nerf was so well received. It was because he was threatening to ruin the game entirely because he was so OP that everyone could see it. So it HAD to be done and it was smart to do it quickly (as opposed to how long Bishop was left untouched). Now, did they go overboard, probably, since as you say he's never seen (I don't see him in 4 star PvP either). But since he's a single 4 star in a sea of them (150 and counting) combined with being a D List villain no one cares about it's fine.

KGB