New Character - Nova (Frankie Raye) 5*

Hm. Probably fed by 4* human torch.

We really need another 'The Meeting' series after this character announcement. I presume it would go something like this:

MPQ CEO: "We need something to distract the player base from the Unity glitches and sluggishness before revenues dry up and we lose more players."
MPQ Character Development: "I've got just the thing. A massively OP new 5 star character release that's a tie in with Fantastic Four movie. Players will be so salivating over her so they'll forget all about the Unity engine'
MPQ Accountant: "That's perfect. Make sure there is no feeder or as new a character feeder as possible so players won't get many covers. That way they will have to spend massive CP in the release store which will create buy clubs and boost revenue."
MPQ Balance Team: "But won't players complain about balance and lack of diversity in PvP due to this OP character?"
MPQ Accountant: "Absolutely but we will ignore their cries. After a full season she goes in tokens. Then WE CAN DOUBLE DIP for a change when she goes into latest and everyone spends another massive hoard of CP doing cover swaps to get her to 550. Once that's happened we can address player concerns about balance and you'll get your chance to nerf her."
MPQ CEO (doing his best Mr Burns hand rub) "Excellent"

KGB

@WhiteBomber said:

@entrailbucket said:
Black King doesn't shut her down at all, though. Her green costs 5 and creates 3 charged tiles, then she immediately goes airborne and AoEs you before he can do anything about it. He will reduce the AoE, but you're still getting clocked once for a pretty massive hit.

In pick-2 I suppose you could run Black King/Electro, but how are you going to win the fight?

I don't think any of the active powers are going to be much help here. Like sure, you could bring 5* Jeff with a green support to eat all the charged tiles once, but you have to wait until your turn, and anyway she's going to make more, so unless you can make infinite green you're getting AoE'd again. Juggerduck can hit airborne enemies but his damage is pretty pathetic.

Storm? Well, you can start with 9 black if you have Tinkerer and the Thanos henchman, but the obvious issue there is that Storm will continue to make charged tiles every turn. You're giving Nova ammo to use against you!

Is this not being "constructive?" I'm not sure what that means in this context.

I was going to type out a whole thing explaining "constructive", then I remembered who I was responding to. It does not surprise me in the slightest you don't understand it, and if you can't see any of it from that post, I'm sorry, I won't help you. Though I do hope others find at least some value in my posts.

For what it's worth, here is a good example of the opposite:

"Sidewinder, Chasm, m'Thor, Sam...I can keep going.
They don't know what they're doing."

You listed a whole bunch of completely ineffective "counters" to an obviously overpowered character who's going to completely take over the metagame as soon as she launches. How on earth is that in any way "constructive?"

Like sure, I could bring Juggerduck to a fight with Nova and save up 7 red to hit her for 10k or whatever once, but by then my entire team is all dead from her 200k of consecutive AoEs for 5AP.

Did you defend Sidewinder's power level? Chasm? Did you think it was a fun challenge to fight those characters in their original states? I'm the one who's always getting accused of being a shill for the devs, and even I can see that they've lost the plot on this one.

@entrailbucket said:
Black King doesn't shut her down at all, though. Her green costs 5 and creates 3 charged tiles, then she immediately goes airborne and AoEs you before he can do anything about it. He will reduce the AoE, but you're still getting clocked once for a pretty massive hit.

In pick-2 I suppose you could run Black King/Electro, but how are you going to win the fight?

I don't think any of the active powers are going to be much help here. Like sure, you could bring 5* Jeff with a green support to eat all the charged tiles once, but you have to wait until your turn, and anyway she's going to make more, so unless you can make infinite green you're getting AoE'd again. Juggerduck can hit airborne enemies but his damage is pretty pathetic.

Storm? Well, you can start with 9 black if you have Tinkerer and the Thanos henchman, but the obvious issue there is that Storm will continue to make charged tiles every turn. You're giving Nova ammo to use against you!

Is this not being "constructive?" I'm not sure what that means in this context.

I'm not suggesting storm as an end all counter for Nova. I think I said "I'd say storm... But", meaning that 'remove charged tiles' power isn't going to be as useful as it may seem to some. Yes, you can get 9 AP, but not while having a team that can finish the fight fast enough to matter (correct me if that's not correct). That 1 charged tile per turn is the least of the concerns for storm. (With slightly different supports on different characters... It just wouldn't matter, but that's not what we have). There was a list of characters mentioned that also won't work, and I thought storm should be on that list.

I agree completely that I can't think of any active powers that will matter from what I'm reading about Nova. No notes.

Black king still offers the best counter to Nova even if it's not a great counter. He doesn't need to shut her down to be better than the other options. It's a place to start a discussion until we can test things in game.

Yes, I think you're being "constructive".

The "context" I intended when I said I was trying to be constructive was to simply inform the individual I quoted in my comment that I was trying to add to what he was saying and not argue against his opinions.

Constructive just means moving the conversation forward. We can assume all bad things, or we can discuss what options we have that might end up working better than it may seem.

I did make a mistake though: I said "it does look like there will be a counter"... That was wishful thinking and way too positivity focused. Maybe they will be a counter. From the text of the powers, probably not. You may blast me at will for that remark.

@entrailbucket said:
@Blackstone I didn't mean to jump on you there.

I have a very strong feeling that they've gotten something wrong here...not that it's not worth discussing potential counters to this character, but, well...they dropped a fairly obvious screw up recently in Sidewinder, and then ending up correcting him (relatively) quickly, after he ate the entire metagame for one season.

I think this will be similar. Somebody messed up something in the description, or the transition from design, or something, because this is just a mess of a character. I guess we'll see when she gets in game. I would not rush to max her out quickly, if I were inclined to do such things.

I agree. I'll have her covered enough to test her in game, I'll wait to see how bad the nerf will be before going hard at counting on her to remain as OP as it seems she'll be.

To be honest, my first thought was not having any interest in the character but assuming I'll need her to keep up once she changes the meta. But I'm trying to be positive as well. Sometimes that's difficult.

In this case, they created something that objectively defies any power budget that could reasonably be applied to any other character in the game. (Based off reading the power descriptions)

Maybe she won't be as godlike in actual play, as is sometimes the case, but...

Discussing options to be as prepared as possible is the only real recourse.

Your assessment has merit and I totally see where you're coming from though.

The best case scenario that I can see is that the next 5* is a hard counter for her and both will be able to be covered from the same LL store.

Like, ok. Let's just run this down.

You attack a 550 Nova team, using unboosted 550s. With no partners boosting her or creating charged tiles, and one green support that fires:

You move the board once (let's assume you don't hit any of her 5 free charged tiles)

Nova goes airborne and AoEs you for 76,886 damage. The essential is probably dead (unless you're me and you have them all at 5*).

You move the board again. You now have 6 total AP.

Nova (untouchable unless you've brought one of the very very few airborne counters) eats a charged tile which (to add insult to injury) hits the guy in front for 11,394 then AoEs you for 67,295. Whoever's not dead has now eaten 144,181 damage, at minimum. At least one of your pick 2 are likely dead, and the other guy is close.

You move the board again. Maybe you have enough to cast an active power now!

Next turn she does another 11,394 single target then hits you for 57,664 AoE.

So in total, over 3 turns, she has done 201,845 AoE and an extra 22,788 to whoever was in front, assuming they are still alive, for the whopping cost of 5 green AP.

These numbers are insane! An unboosted 550 Omega Red will do 5968 + 11,936 + 17,922 = 29,840 AoE over 3 turns. Yes, his is passive and hers costs 5AP, but with supports that hardly matters. Plus, you can try to kill him to turn it off! She's airborne the whole time!

Yeah, sure, you'll probably knock out a charged tile or two over those 3 turns, but your average unboosted 550 is between 140 and 200k or so HP. How are you going to survive that plus whatever nonsense her teammates are getting up to?

@HuracanDolor said:
Nova, meet Mr. Sebastian Shaw, you’re new and already irrelevant…….. Next! And hopefully it’s a counter to one of the metas. What a waste of a slot.

He definitely made m'Thor irrelevant, I never see her anymore!

...right?

Wait, is she her own counter (on offence) with her black power?
Take one of the supports that gives sufficient black AP to fire it at the offset and she’ll drain that pesky free green AP the enemy was gifted at the start of the fight, thus preventing instant Armageddon? (For a turn or two)

@WhiteBomber said:
On a more constructive note, here are some things that currently counter some of her kit:

1. BlackKing4: Immediately eats all her charge tiles, and possibly the best counter, currently (assuming you don't just use turn 1 infinite)
2. Electro5: Team damage defense and battery
3. SamWilson5: Cheap RNG destroys charged tiles
4. AikkuSpaceRobot4: Punishes airborne AND slams them back to the ground
5. Your own MThor / Frankie to take advantage
6. Magneto5: Can also airborne for cheap, while there, destroys any new charge tiles
7. Peggy5: If they finally buffed this turd she would clearly be the one to shut her down: Damage enemies PER charged tile. Increased by 50% if they are airborne
8. Deathlok4: Targets airborne
9. Gambit5: Deals damage per charge tile and resets them to 3
10. Jeffrey5: Eats charged tiles
11. Namor5: Hits airborne
12. Juggerduck5: Hits airborne
13. Archangel: Damage and stun airborne (TBD if stun will override)
14. Elsa5: TBD if her blue will do anything, but was intended to shut down airborne shenanigans

These are only the 5stars (not including protectors like BRB, SWitch etc.) and the few good 4 stars I knew were intended for these scenarios. There are surely some more in 3-4star land. I intentionally left out other awful counters like Miles5 Storm5.

NOTE: I am NOT saying this character is, or is not, overpowered. She clearly reads as formidable on offense, but not so much on defense. I'm not sure I'd say you would see her more than JuggerSam, especially given the defensive nature of that team. Maybe climb with her, and leave JuggySam.

Unfortunately, the majority of the characters noted above are bad, but combined with other characters, things can become good...ish (on offense at least).

Her green seems to be the thing people are most worried about (partially due to MThor), but if there are no charge tiles, she does nothing, and if there are only a few, she will safely feed Electro.

Thank Galactus I am close to ascending BlackKing! I will definitely look for solid counters once released (luckily, defense shouldn't be much of a concern) and I look forward to playing her!

Im planning on Shaw, 5*Agatha and a third support Im unsure of yet (Morbius if they're running Polaris with Frankie and MThor or maybe Worthy Peggy (Weggy?) to deal some passive damage each turn.

Shaw does a pretty good job of handling MThor/Polaris teams most of the time and absorbing all of those charged tiles, whilst taking damage is going to supercharge him up to hopefully one-punch K.O her when she lands