Sidewinder unannounced nerf

@LavaManLee said:
I really wish we would get some kind of communication. Why do the double whammy of TU drain and reduced %. One of the other would have sufficed and he would still be playable. Especially ascended. Both, and he is garbage.

Agreed. He's nerfed into totally unusable in pretty much any situation. The TU drain is especially harsh because it means you'd have a hard time firing TU powers. It's too bad Kang couldn't reverse that drain with his passive that restores lost AP.

KGB

@dianetics said:
I don't know why people are trying to defend the old kit.
He was legit broken. The dev's knew it and the players knew it.
They did a baby nerf and it changed nothing...he was still broken and the players told the dev's he was still broken. He was still way to strong and EVERYBODY knew it.
Day 1
KGB "Gotta be some typos on that Yellow"
Chrynos1989 "the yellow sounds insane"
LavaManLee "This kit looks bonkers good in 5* land"
DAZ0273 "AP, Match damage and away shenanigans, thank god this guy wasn't a Support! Sounds like a new "kill on sight" character like Polaris."

Everybody knew this kit was stupid **** good.

When he went live I said "He’s stupid and broken"
Then the thread devolved into **** slinging.

Once he got established people knew he was bad for the game.

If he was good for the game the dev's would not changed him.

I bet the metrics showed he was probably the strongest character they ever released.

Anybody defending him and his kit deserve losing whatever they threw into him.
Sorry not sorry.

I'm glad that is your opinion. I have a different one. I agree his kit was broken. No argument there. Maybe they didn't have to hammer him so hard that he is essentially worthless. As I have mentioned twice now, they could have done EITHER the TU drain or the % reduction. Doing both at the same time was unnecessary.

@LavaManLee said:
I'm glad that is your opinion. I have a different one. I agree his kit was broken. No argument there. Maybe they didn't have to hammer him so hard that he is essentially worthless. As I have mentioned twice now, they could have done EITHER the TU drain or the % reduction. Doing both at the same time was unnecessary.

I gave you a team with supports that is competitive in PvE.
Noting speed and placement I will probably end up top 20 for this PvE event in the first slice with no boosted characters using this team.

His nerf isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. On any match of TU he gets an extra hit.
He is still giving up to 400% boost. On match 3 that can be 30-50k for unboosted matchers. For boosted matchers it is still stupid strong.

Use him with a team that synergizes with him and the correct supports.

Don't use him like before as a cudgel to bully whip whatever you are trying to destroy on turn 1. You can still win on turn 2.

@dianetics said:

@LavaManLee said:
I'm glad that is your opinion. I have a different one. I agree his kit was broken. No argument there. Maybe they didn't have to hammer him so hard that he is essentially worthless. As I have mentioned twice now, they could have done EITHER the TU drain or the % reduction. Doing both at the same time was unnecessary.

I gave you a team with supports that is competitive in PvE.
Noting speed and placement I will probably end up top 20 for this PvE event in the first slice with no boosted characters using this team.

His nerf isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. On any match of TU he gets an extra hit.
He is still giving up to 400% boost. On match 3 that can be 30-50k for unboosted matchers. For boosted matchers it is still stupid strong.

Use him with a team that synergizes with him and the correct supports.

Don't use him like before as a cudgel to bully whip whatever you are trying to destroy on turn 1. You can still win on turn 2.

Just tried it in PVP and not even close to working. When going up against other boosted toons with 200k+, it doesn't work one bit. At least for me. If you figured out it works for you, that is awesome. But definitely doesn't move the needle at all for me.

@LavaManLee said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'm fine with the change. It seemed obvious that he was a screwup, from the beginning, and they did say that.

I'm not at all fine with how they went about it. Why wasn't this change announced in advance? Or, like, announced at all? Why did they wait so long? I said it in another thread -- this guy was so good that you really kind of had to have him, for as long as he existed. So we ended up being forced to go after him without knowing how long he'd be around.

I'm sure this is not an intentional bait and switch, because I really don't believe they're capable of that. He was an accident that they took too long to fix. It sure looks like a bait and switch though! And it feeds all these weird conspiracy theories about their intentions.

I never felt like I "needed to go after him" beyond whatever I earned naturally (I think he's high 280s right now... par with other new release 4s). I didn't spend any resources swapping for him, because again, he's usable at 5 yellow and... THEY TOLD US THEY WERE GOING TO NERF HIM on March 7th before anyone had the ability to spend resources targeting him. I didn't fall massively behind playing him with 5 yellow and waiting to see what the nerf was. Anyone who hit the panic button and went all in or felt they "needed" this character at more than 5 covers to compete... I hope you enjoyed your month of dominance (if that? This was a pretty swift nerf).

Where did I ever say I had a month of dominance? Seems to be a heck of a lot of enjoyment from people around this. I never once said I had a month of dominance. In fact, this nerf doesn't even hurt me one bit. What would be nice would be not to nerf him into oblivion.

I didn’t even quote or mention you at al. Mine was more a general comment to those who felt they had to go all in and chase him in order to compete. It boggles me given we knew a nerf was coming and his effectiveness at 5 covers. I don’t understand why someone wouldn’t wait to see what the nerf is before making such a choice, and no one has been able to answer that yet.

I also love the comments that he is unusable in any situation ever, despite others posting situations where they used him to great effect. If “unusable” is I can’t one-shot kill everything turn one with a 5-covers 4-star, that’s fair. But “unusable” needs to be specifically defined.

And I’m absolutely enjoying this nerf. Yes. It doesn’t make anything I’m saying less true, even if it hurts to hear.

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'm fine with the change. It seemed obvious that he was a screwup, from the beginning, and they did say that.

I'm not at all fine with how they went about it. Why wasn't this change announced in advance? Or, like, announced at all? Why did they wait so long? I said it in another thread -- this guy was so good that you really kind of had to have him, for as long as he existed. So we ended up being forced to go after him without knowing how long he'd be around.

I'm sure this is not an intentional bait and switch, because I really don't believe they're capable of that. He was an accident that they took too long to fix. It sure looks like a bait and switch though! And it feeds all these weird conspiracy theories about their intentions.

I never felt like I "needed to go after him" beyond whatever I earned naturally (I think he's high 280s right now... par with other new release 4s). I didn't spend any resources swapping for him, because again, he's usable at 5 yellow and... THEY TOLD US THEY WERE GOING TO NERF HIM on March 7th before anyone had the ability to spend resources targeting him. I didn't fall massively behind playing him with 5 yellow and waiting to see what the nerf was. Anyone who hit the panic button and went all in or felt they "needed" this character at more than 5 covers to compete... I hope you enjoyed your month of dominance (if that? This was a pretty swift nerf).

If they knew on March 7th that he needed to be changed, then he should've been changed on March 8. Why wait at all? It just feeds the conspiracy theories.

That is a question for the Devs (although we know why) not DD217 isn't it?

Another one bites the dust, but Lady Thor still reigns supreme ...

For anyone that has Seth ascended, what are his yellow stats?

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'm fine with the change. It seemed obvious that he was a screwup, from the beginning, and they did say that.

I'm not at all fine with how they went about it. Why wasn't this change announced in advance? Or, like, announced at all? Why did they wait so long? I said it in another thread -- this guy was so good that you really kind of had to have him, for as long as he existed. So we ended up being forced to go after him without knowing how long he'd be around.

I'm sure this is not an intentional bait and switch, because I really don't believe they're capable of that. He was an accident that they took too long to fix. It sure looks like a bait and switch though! And it feeds all these weird conspiracy theories about their intentions.

I never felt like I "needed to go after him" beyond whatever I earned naturally (I think he's high 280s right now... par with other new release 4s). I didn't spend any resources swapping for him, because again, he's usable at 5 yellow and... THEY TOLD US THEY WERE GOING TO NERF HIM on March 7th before anyone had the ability to spend resources targeting him. I didn't fall massively behind playing him with 5 yellow and waiting to see what the nerf was. Anyone who hit the panic button and went all in or felt they "needed" this character at more than 5 covers to compete... I hope you enjoyed your month of dominance (if that? This was a pretty swift nerf).

If they knew on March 7th that he needed to be changed, then he should've been changed on March 8. Why wait at all? It just feeds the conspiracy theories.

Probably they needed more time to gather data to decide how much of a nerf he needed. Is he just helping players win a bit too easy and he just needs another small nerf, or is he getting so many wins for players that he needs a large nerf?

Apparently it was the latter.

I mean, listen: I love nerfs. I love THIS nerf. Anybody who invested in this obviously broken character deserves whatever they get. He was bad for the game and made it less fun to play, and nerfing him into the ground was the right thing to do.

But nobody is seriously defending an unannounced nerf that dropped with no particular warning and no details, right? Yeah they said they were looking at him, but they said they were looking at Chasm, then let him dominate the game for 6 more months. Why would anybody expect less for Sidewinder? And Chasm's nerf was announced in advance, not just dropped in the middle of the night.

They're just so, so bad at communication. There's still no official post for this!

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:
I'm fine with the change. It seemed obvious that he was a screwup, from the beginning, and they did say that.

I'm not at all fine with how they went about it. Why wasn't this change announced in advance? Or, like, announced at all? Why did they wait so long? I said it in another thread -- this guy was so good that you really kind of had to have him, for as long as he existed. So we ended up being forced to go after him without knowing how long he'd be around.

I'm sure this is not an intentional bait and switch, because I really don't believe they're capable of that. He was an accident that they took too long to fix. It sure looks like a bait and switch though! And it feeds all these weird conspiracy theories about their intentions.

I never felt like I "needed to go after him" beyond whatever I earned naturally (I think he's high 280s right now... par with other new release 4s). I didn't spend any resources swapping for him, because again, he's usable at 5 yellow and... THEY TOLD US THEY WERE GOING TO NERF HIM on March 7th before anyone had the ability to spend resources targeting him. I didn't fall massively behind playing him with 5 yellow and waiting to see what the nerf was. Anyone who hit the panic button and went all in or felt they "needed" this character at more than 5 covers to compete... I hope you enjoyed your month of dominance (if that? This was a pretty swift nerf).

If they knew on March 7th that he needed to be changed, then he should've been changed on March 8. Why wait at all? It just feeds the conspiracy theories.

Probably they needed more time to gather data to decide how much of a nerf he needed. Is he just helping players win a bit too easy and he just needs another small nerf, or is he getting so many wins for players that he needs a large nerf?

Apparently it was the latter.

I mean, listen: I love nerfs. I love THIS nerf. Anybody who invested in this obviously broken character deserves whatever they get. He was bad for the game and made it less fun to play, and nerfing him into the ground was the right thing to do.

But nobody is seriously defending an unannounced nerf that dropped with no particular warning and no details, right? Yeah they said they were looking at him, but they said they were looking at Chasm, then let him dominate the game for 6 more months. Why would anybody expect less for Sidewinder? And Chasm's nerf was announced in advance, not just dropped in the middle of the night.

They're just so, so bad at communication. There's still no official post for this!

According to Sokun on discord, they did intend to notify us first but they accidentally made the nerf live before they could announce it.

Edit: it's actually just been posted now