Sidewinder unannounced nerf

animerat

Non ascended version

Ascended version

What a Gambit level nerf!?!? I feel sorry for those that ascended him or spent HP to added levels.

BlackBoltRocks

It wasn't unannounced. They already said they'd be revisiting his Yellow after his boost had ended.

Many thanks to the devs for fixing him. Better late than never.

will7612

Way UNFAIR for those who invested

WilliamK1983

I invested in health packs cuz of his broken ability. No sympathy from me for anyone who invested, especially since it was announced this was coming.

trenchdigger

That's quite a savage nerf. They could have introduced either the 400% match damage limitation or the drain 2ap and either would have been sufficient in my opinion.
This just utterly crushes the character into oblivion.

Kross

Because I cannot remember, and have not used him much, what was his yellow before this?

dianetics

He was wildly broken before.
The match damage bonus is still very good though.
Also, the bonus damage based on how much TU ap have isn't that bad.

dianetics

@Kross said:
Because I cannot remember, and have not used him much, what was his yellow before this?

Ability: Leader of the Serpent Society
Color: Yellow
AP Cost: 5

The strength of the Serpent Society grows as Sidewinder’s elaborate schemes slowly manifest. Create a 5 turn Serpent Society Repeater tile that deals 472 damage, then creates a copy of itself (max: 2).

(PASSIVE) Whenever a teammate makes a match, increase the damage dealt from that match by 53% for every Team-Up AP you have (max of 425%) Whenever you make a Team-Up match, gain 1 extra Team-Up AP if one of your teammates is a Villain.

270: Create a 5 turn tile that deals 907 damage. Increase damage by 53% (max of 425%)
370: Create a 5 turn tile that deals 1905 damage. Increase damage by 53% (max of 425%)

Level 2: Create a 4 turn tile that deals 657 damage. Increase damage by 75% (max of 600%)
270: Create a 4 turn tile that deals 1263 damage. Increase damage by 75% (max of 600%)
370: Create a 4 turn tile that deals 2652 damage. Increase damage by 75% (max of 600%)

Level 3: Create a 3 turn tile that deals 842 damage. Increase damage by 97% (max of 775%)
270: Create a 3 turn tile that deals 1618 damage. Increase damage by 97% (max of 775%)
370: Create a 3 turn tile that deals 3399 damage. Increase damage by 97% (max of 775%)

Level 4: Create a 2 turn that deals 389 damage (max: 3). Increase damage by 119% (max of 950%). Gain 2 extra AP.
270: Create a 2 turn that deals 747 damage (max: 3). Increase damage by 119% (max of 950%). Gain 2 extra AP.
370: Create a 2 turn that deals 1570 damage (max: 3). Increase damage by 119% (max of 950%). Gain 2 extra AP.

Level 5: Create a 1 turn that deals 102 damage (max: 6). Increase damage by 191% (max of 1525%).
270: Create a 1 turn that deals 196 damage (max: 6). Increase damage by 191% (max of 1525%).
370: Create a 1 turn that deals 411 damage (max: 6). Increase damage by 191% (max of 1525%).

DAZ0273

It seemed pretty obvious he would be destroyed. The gentle little nudge to slow him down slightly they gave him whilst boosted was obviously to appease the early adopters who probably spent $$$ and wanted to go full rampage but after that, he was always going down hard.

lbiajante

What a load of ****! I invested in this character, and they nerfed it way too fast. The character changed the gameplay style, but they nerfed it just because the "elite" was offended by getting beaten by a noob.

DAZ0273

@lbiajante said:
What a load of ****! I invested in this character, and they nerfed it way too fast. The character changed the gameplay style, but they nerfed it just because the "elite" was offended by getting beaten by a noob.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. I am pretty sure that the "elites" had Sidewinder and whatever else they needed too and PvP for most of them is collusion anyway and they already had ways to win Turn whatever in PvE.

They actually waited too long to nerf him exactly because of reactions on this thread of players feeling cheated and thinking he was their meal ticket moving forward when it was obvious they got the maths on his boost very very wrong.

I'm not an "elite" by the way, unless you count my ability to create versions of Daredevil with different fists in paint.

trenchdigger

I don't feel cheated, but then I didn't chase him because of the warning that they were still looking at him after the initial tweak to his numbers.

I just think it is a shame that they had a first attempt at reigning him in, which obviously didn't go far enough, and as a result have over compensated and gone way too far the other way.

That would be fine, if after another month they had a process to revisit him again, look at the usage and win rates and tweak him based on the stats. But of course they won't and we are left with another character to add to the teetering pile of characters that never see the daylight.

And of course this also speaks to their ability to create well balanced characters.

DAZ0273

I think it was because of his potential to be a "Gambatt" style problem - partially built or with only a maxed yellow is not how they want or intend us to build characters (the old Devs at least said so). It is still the Devs fault for thinking that yellow was OK TOGETHER with the teleport shenanigans and also to wait to nerf but this one was flashing all the warning lights from the very beginning.

Daredevil217

@lbiajante said:
What a load of ****! I invested in this character, and they nerfed it way too fast. The character changed the gameplay style, but they nerfed it just because the "elite" was offended by getting beaten by a noob.

Serious question, why go “all in” on a character you only needed five covers for that they announced they were going to nerf?

That seems like a choice…

LavaManLee

I think a nerf is fine. But this went way beyond a nerf. Biggest nerf the new devs have made and he is basically worthless at this point. Whether or not one wants to deflect blame to people who went "all in" it really isn't a great business practice to allow it to happen without any restitution. They can obviously do what they want. It's their game. But I don't think anybody expecting a nerf thought it would be THAT drastic as this dev group had not done anything like that since taking over the game.

Chasm is probably the biggest nerf and he is still definitely playable. Sidewinder is now DOA. There is a nice middle ground that could have occurred but they chose not to do that, for whatever reason.

Kross

This just gave me an idea.

How about an event that the boosted list every nerfed character, only for that event they are unnerfed.

Playing some old school Gambit again would be fun.

DAZ0273

@LavaManLee said:
I think a nerf is fine. But this went way beyond a nerf. Biggest nerf the new devs have made and he is basically worthless at this point. Whether or not one wants to deflect blame to people who went "all in" it really isn't a great business practice to allow it to happen without any restitution. They can obviously do what they want. It's their game. But I don't think anybody expecting a nerf thought it would be THAT drastic as this dev group had not done anything like that since taking over the game.

Chasm is probably the biggest nerf and he is still definitely playable. Sidewinder is now DOA. There is a nice middle ground that could have occurred but they chose not to do that, for whatever reason.

I suspect they saw something in the data they really didn't like. Chasm was a 5* problem but I think Sidewinder had potential to be far worse than that and without the need to even champ him.

dianetics

He’s still very strong.
Just try running Okoye / Mephsito or ORed / Sidewinder.

This isnt a nerf into the ground. His boost is still very strong and the extra tick of damage does a lot with okoye.

dokiy

Pour one out for OG Sidewinder. He was super fun to play with, but totally broken. A few TU boots and Fasticar could wipe out entire teams on one turn. I normally hate nerfs, but this guy needed one. Will have to play with him now to see how he is, but I understand why the Devs did what they did. We all knew it was coming too.

LavaManLee

@dianetics said:
He’s still very strong.
Just try running Okoye / Mephsito or ORed / Sidewinder.

This isnt a nerf into the ground. His boost is still very strong and the extra tick of damage does a lot with okoye.

Definitely disagree. This is certainly a nerf into the ground. Losing the 2 TU each turn of a match plus the huge damage nerf (especially on the ascended version) makes him unusable. And he wasn't good at defense before and he really isn't good at it now.

dianetics

Okoye with RTF Mephisto with Omni City. Turn 2 10+ AP.

Everything is still dying on the second turn. Okoye match 3 ap 45k.

By himself he is bad, but he was always bad by himself.