Sidewinder unannounced nerf

revskip

@BlackBoltRocks said:
It wasn't unannounced. They already said they'd be revisiting his Yellow after his boost had ended.

Many thanks to the devs for fixing him. Better late than never.

It wasn't announced when it happened. Not game ending but it definitely cost me a clear in the PvE that it first happened in. He worked fine one day and then all of a sudden that team up AP was disappearing. Pretty piss poor communication in the moment.

Not the end of the world by any means but also not at all the way a good developer does things. Nerfs are fine. Saying you are going to nerf a character in the future is fine. Doing it without actually posting it anywhere in game, on forum, on Discord etc less than optimal. Bad look.

Scofie

@revskip said:

@BlackBoltRocks said:
It wasn't unannounced. They already said they'd be revisiting his Yellow after his boost had ended.

Many thanks to the devs for fixing him. Better late than never.

It wasn't announced when it happened. Not game ending but it definitely cost me a clear in the PvE that it first happened in. He worked fine one day and then all of a sudden that team up AP was disappearing. Pretty piss poor communication in the moment.

Not the end of the world by any means but also not at all the way a good developer does things. Nerfs are fine. Saying you are going to nerf a character in the future is fine. Doing it without actually posting it anywhere in game, on forum, on Discord etc less than optimal. Bad look.

The previous page shows that the change was implemented ahead of schedule and that comms were planned. As soon as the details were available they were posted. Mistakes happen. It's not like any individual was specifically disadvantaged because it was a surprise to everyone.

LavaManLee

@Scofie said:

@revskip said:

@BlackBoltRocks said:
It wasn't unannounced. They already said they'd be revisiting his Yellow after his boost had ended.

Many thanks to the devs for fixing him. Better late than never.

It wasn't announced when it happened. Not game ending but it definitely cost me a clear in the PvE that it first happened in. He worked fine one day and then all of a sudden that team up AP was disappearing. Pretty piss poor communication in the moment.

Not the end of the world by any means but also not at all the way a good developer does things. Nerfs are fine. Saying you are going to nerf a character in the future is fine. Doing it without actually posting it anywhere in game, on forum, on Discord etc less than optimal. Bad look.

The previous page shows that the change was implemented ahead of schedule and that comms were planned. As soon as the details were available they were posted. Mistakes happen. It's not like any individual was specifically disadvantaged because it was a surprise to everyone.

You are actually wrong about the disadvantaged part. Basically, anyone using Sidewinder in the final clear for that first PVE (before the nerf was "announced") was disadvantaged. I know that I was. Went from a T10 to a T50 in no time because I couldn't finish those final clears of the FU node and couldn't figure out what was going on. If one wasn't using him, it didn't matter. But for those who time their clears and know how long they should take, there was a definite disadvantage because of the unannounced nerf. To say that nobody was disadvantaged is simply not true.

Scofie

@LavaManLee said:

@Scofie said:

@revskip said:

@BlackBoltRocks said:
It wasn't unannounced. They already said they'd be revisiting his Yellow after his boost had ended.

Many thanks to the devs for fixing him. Better late than never.

It wasn't announced when it happened. Not game ending but it definitely cost me a clear in the PvE that it first happened in. He worked fine one day and then all of a sudden that team up AP was disappearing. Pretty piss poor communication in the moment.

Not the end of the world by any means but also not at all the way a good developer does things. Nerfs are fine. Saying you are going to nerf a character in the future is fine. Doing it without actually posting it anywhere in game, on forum, on Discord etc less than optimal. Bad look.

The previous page shows that the change was implemented ahead of schedule and that comms were planned. As soon as the details were available they were posted. Mistakes happen. It's not like any individual was specifically disadvantaged because it was a surprise to everyone.

You are actually wrong about the disadvantaged part. Basically, anyone using Sidewinder in the final clear for that first PVE (before the nerf was "announced") was disadvantaged. I know that I was. Went from a T10 to a T50 in no time because I couldn't finish those final clears of the FU node and couldn't figure out what was going on. If one wasn't using him, it didn't matter. But for those who time their clears and know how long they should take, there was a definite disadvantage because of the unannounced nerf. To say that nobody was disadvantaged is simply not true.

OK, that's fair, apologies. My terrible assumption was that most people in the T10 were using him and therefore it didn't matter. I completely disregarded all the others (myself included!) outside the T10 that don't use him and may have placed better as a result.

dianetics

So you dropped out of t10 for 1 PvE and you think you are disadvantaged?
JFC
The privilege.

Mod edit - uncalled for comment removed

Daredevil217

@dianetics said:
So you dropped out of t10 for 1 PvE and you think you are disadvantaged?
JFC
The privilege.

You do understand the context of the post you’re responding to, right?

We all understand that this is a match three game and so yes, in his example he was “disadvantaged”. No one is comparing dropping out of T10 to losing a limb. Your response seems very odd given that, again- this is a match 3 game.

At no point were pitchforks brought out. Not sure why you brought yours.

revskip

@Scofie said:

@revskip said:

@BlackBoltRocks said:
It wasn't unannounced. They already said they'd be revisiting his Yellow after his boost had ended.

Many thanks to the devs for fixing him. Better late than never.

It wasn't announced when it happened. Not game ending but it definitely cost me a clear in the PvE that it first happened in. He worked fine one day and then all of a sudden that team up AP was disappearing. Pretty piss poor communication in the moment.

Not the end of the world by any means but also not at all the way a good developer does things. Nerfs are fine. Saying you are going to nerf a character in the future is fine. Doing it without actually posting it anywhere in game, on forum, on Discord etc less than optimal. Bad look.

The previous page shows that the change was implemented ahead of schedule and that comms were planned. As soon as the details were available they were posted. Mistakes happen. It's not like any individual was specifically disadvantaged because it was a surprise to everyone.

Like I said above in the grand scheme of things not that big of a deal. But when a company does something stupid you should always hold them accountable even if it is a small inconvenience. Which honestly is what happened here. In one of the thousands of PvE events I've played there was a screw-up in communication that cost me some digital goods. Not a huge thing. Own up to the mistake and it really isn't an issue. I was fine with the eventual posting on Discord, although it would have been nice if they addressed it here as well. But when you screw up you should own it.

I routinely finish in the top 10 and the vast majority of those finishes have happened without using Sidewinder. Even in that event I wasn't using him because I have other teams that are a little more consistent. I switched to him just for a couple of nodes to shave some seconds off and it went in the exact opposite direction because I couldn't for the life of me understand where the team up AP was going which led to me missing the mark. I didn't contact CS looking for handouts. I didn't start a thread about it. I do think that pointing out it is beyond sub-optimal to make unscheduled and unannounced changes isn't really that far a bridge to cross.

dianetics

@Daredevil217 said:
You do understand the context of the post you’re responding to, right?

Yes.
Calling it a match 3 game is a cop out.
The top level is competitive and I assume many are running several teams and have backups just in case.

Even using him wasn’t noticeably faster in PvE and required some luck.

People lose placement over tons of things. Bad boards, unlucky cascades, the ai using a team up at the wrong time.

He was using a broken character the got slowed down for one event. He was advantaged the entire time he was using Side before.

At the end of the day he lost out on 50 5* shards and 1 and a half 4 star covers.

Give me a break.

entrailbucket

I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

Scofie

@revskip said:

@Scofie said:

@revskip said:

@BlackBoltRocks said:
It wasn't unannounced. They already said they'd be revisiting his Yellow after his boost had ended.

Many thanks to the devs for fixing him. Better late than never.

It wasn't announced when it happened. Not game ending but it definitely cost me a clear in the PvE that it first happened in. He worked fine one day and then all of a sudden that team up AP was disappearing. Pretty piss poor communication in the moment.

Not the end of the world by any means but also not at all the way a good developer does things. Nerfs are fine. Saying you are going to nerf a character in the future is fine. Doing it without actually posting it anywhere in game, on forum, on Discord etc less than optimal. Bad look.

The previous page shows that the change was implemented ahead of schedule and that comms were planned. As soon as the details were available they were posted. Mistakes happen. It's not like any individual was specifically disadvantaged because it was a surprise to everyone.

Like I said above in the grand scheme of things not that big of a deal. But when a company does something stupid you should always hold them accountable even if it is a small inconvenience. Which honestly is what happened here. In one of the thousands of PvE events I've played there was a screw-up in communication that cost me some digital goods. Not a huge thing. Own up to the mistake and it really isn't an issue. I was fine with the eventual posting on Discord, although it would have been nice if they addressed it here as well. But when you screw up you should own it.

I routinely finish in the top 10 and the vast majority of those finishes have happened without using Sidewinder. Even in that event I wasn't using him because I have other teams that are a little more consistent. I switched to him just for a couple of nodes to shave some seconds off and it went in the exact opposite direction because I couldn't for the life of me understand where the team up AP was going which led to me missing the mark. I didn't contact CS looking for handouts. I didn't start a thread about it. I do think that pointing out it is beyond sub-optimal to make unscheduled and unannounced changes isn't really that far a bridge to cross.

Yeah, I get that. I wasn't criticizing your opinion or your response. I thought it was slightly unfair to say it was a "bad look" when it was an error, acknowledged as such and announced as soon as possible. I did oversimplify my response though, so apologies again.

revskip

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

DAZ0273

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

LavaManLee

@dianetics said:
So you dropped out of t10 for 1 PvE and you think you are disadvantaged?
JFC
The privilege.

Mod edit - uncalled for comment removed

Yes. By definition it was a disadvantage. Not sure why you have so much vitriol for that.

Scofie mentioned that nobody was disadvantaged. It is a fact, that some people were disadvantaged. Now maybe not disadvantaged enough for you to care, but it was a disadvantage by the very definition.

Does it matter AT ALL in the world at large. No. Did it matter in this match three game that I enjoy playing? Yes. Really have no idea why you came at this so hard.

revskip

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

Even the co-operating teams are still competing though. Both internally to secure top finishes and externally against the non-cooperating folks, some of whom are competing to keep the cooperation from working. Just different playstyle. They don't hand out extra rewards in slices 1 & 4 versus 2 & 5. The way you secure a top finish is just a different type of competition.

entrailbucket

@revskip said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

Even the co-operating teams are still competing though. Both internally to secure top finishes and externally against the non-cooperating folks, some of whom are competing to keep the cooperation from working. Just different playstyle. They don't hand out extra rewards in slices 1 & 4 versus 2 & 5. The way you secure a top finish is just a different type of competition.

I actually wasn't referring to that, although the idea of competing in a world where everyone is friendly is also hilarious (if you continuously outhop me for placement, then we are competing and you are NOT friendly, whether we're directly attacking each other or not. Let's just skip the fake-polite nonsense and attack each other!).

DAZ0273

@revskip said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

Even the co-operating teams are still competing though. Both internally to secure top finishes and externally against the non-cooperating folks, some of whom are competing to keep the cooperation from working. Just different playstyle. They don't hand out extra rewards in slices 1 & 4 versus 2 & 5. The way you secure a top finish is just a different type of competition.

I will take your word for this as it makes my head hurt and also does not compute.

revskip

@entrailbucket said:

@revskip said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

Even the co-operating teams are still competing though. Both internally to secure top finishes and externally against the non-cooperating folks, some of whom are competing to keep the cooperation from working. Just different playstyle. They don't hand out extra rewards in slices 1 & 4 versus 2 & 5. The way you secure a top finish is just a different type of competition.

I actually wasn't referring to that, although the idea of competing in a world where everyone is friendly is also hilarious (if you continuously outhop me for placement, then we are competing and you are NOT friendly, whether we're directly attacking each other or not. Let's just skip the fake-polite nonsense and attack each other!).

Except not everyone is friendly and even the people who are friendly are still competing. Being in a check room doesn't automatically get you placement. It does reduce the number of folks who are actively hitting you at any given time but also exposes you even more to dedicated snipers who feast off the grill teams the cooperating teams put out since you are also putting out those teams.

The place where that coordination makes a difference is in seasonal placement since those inflated scores in slice 1 & 4 mean easier placement in season. Event to event though is still cutthroat competitive and requires a bunch of HP spent shielding and hopping between shields. It is just a different type of competition than the one you prefer. Which is fine.

There are slices for the style you enjoy. I personally don't enjoy those slices, they feel boring to me compared to the dopamine hit of successfully navigating a hop where I know the team I have out has a lot of chances to be hit while I am out. In the style you like I get bored because I can easily climb on the much weaker rosters that hang out in those slices and end up getting progression via farming then shield out the last 24 hours and still get placement with a 1200 score. Different strokes.

entrailbucket

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:

@revskip said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

@DAZ0273 said:

@revskip said:

@entrailbucket said:
I still think it's absolutely hilarious that certain players are totally fine with PvE being cutthroat, super-competitive, win at all costs, but when I talk about competing in the player vs player mode I'm being unreasonable or weird.

There is plenty of competition there too. You just don't enjoy some of the playstyles that are competing in the slices where cooperation goes hand in hand with competition. Which is fine. There are slices that appeal to the style of competition you do enjoy.

I think his point might be that in a game type called "Versus" the idea of co-operation between competing players is inherently absurd.

Even the co-operating teams are still competing though. Both internally to secure top finishes and externally against the non-cooperating folks, some of whom are competing to keep the cooperation from working. Just different playstyle. They don't hand out extra rewards in slices 1 & 4 versus 2 & 5. The way you secure a top finish is just a different type of competition.

I actually wasn't referring to that, although the idea of competing in a world where everyone is friendly is also hilarious (if you continuously outhop me for placement, then we are competing and you are NOT friendly, whether we're directly attacking each other or not. Let's just skip the fake-polite nonsense and attack each other!).

Except not everyone is friendly and even the people who are friendly are still competing. Being in a check room doesn't automatically get you placement. It does reduce the number of folks who are actively hitting you at any given time but also exposes you even more to dedicated snipers who feast off the grill teams the cooperating teams put out since you are also putting out those teams.

The place where that coordination makes a difference is in seasonal placement since those inflated scores in slice 1 & 4 mean easier placement in season. Event to event though is still cutthroat competitive and requires a bunch of HP spent shielding and hopping between shields. It is just a different type of competition than the one you prefer. Which is fine.

There are slices for the style you enjoy. I personally don't enjoy those slices, they feel boring to me compared to the dopamine hit of successfully navigating a hop where I know the team I have out has a lot of chances to be hit while I am out. In the style you like I get bored because I can easily climb on the much weaker rosters that hang out in those slices and end up getting progression via farming then shield out the last 24 hours and still get placement with a 1200 score. Different strokes.

If you're competing with the people in your room, why can't you attack them when they try to hop over you?

Also the idea that "dedicated snipers" even exist in slices where you guys score 5000 points an event and shield hop off cupcakes for hours at a time... LOL.

The "style I like" is competing with the players I'm in competition with, not lying about being friendly or caring about a community.

dianetics

@LavaManLee said:
Does it matter AT ALL in the world at large. No. Did it matter in this match three game that I enjoy playing? Yes. Really have no idea why you came at this so hard.

Reference this post.

@dianetics said:
I don't know why people are trying to defend the old kit.
He was legit broken. The dev's knew it and the players knew it.
They did a baby nerf and it changed nothing...he was still broken and the players told the dev's he was still broken. He was still way to strong and EVERYBODY knew it.
Day 1
KGB "Gotta be some typos on that Yellow"
Chrynos1989 "the yellow sounds insane"
LavaManLee "This kit looks bonkers good in 5* land"
DAZ0273 "AP, Match damage and away shenanigans, thank god this guy wasn't a Support! Sounds like a new "kill on sight" character like Polaris."

Everybody knew this kit was stupid **** good.

When he went live I said "He’s stupid and broken"
Then the thread devolved into **** slinging.

Once he got established people knew he was bad for the game.

If he was good for the game the dev's would not changed him.

I bet the metrics showed he was probably the strongest character they ever released.

Anybody defending him and his kit deserve losing whatever they threw into him.
Sorry not sorry.

You knowingly used a character that was up for a nef.
You used him also knowing that the dev's currently are really really really bad at communication.
The writing was on the wall that this was going to happen. Not if, but when.