PVP scoring is moronic

Unknown

Slarow wrote:

Blindsided means he didn't see it coming. Anyone who has ever been in or near the top 10 at the end of a tourney knows this happens, and that you need shields. He was not surprised that it happened, he is complaining THAT it happened, without providing any sort of suggested remedy. If he at least attempted to provide a "remedy", we would be able to point out why all the remedies suggested so far won't work, and therefore why the current system is the best one available right now.

I don't think anyone anticipates losing 400 points in 15 minutes. That's highly unusual and pretty obscene.

If you're HP starved (most of us are) and are looking to get ahead, it's quite reasonable that you might want to forgo shields and attempt to play it out. You might expect to lose 100-200 points in the last 15 minutes, but anything beyond that speaks to a screwed up system.

Unknown

Slarow wrote:

he is complaining THAT it happened, without providing any sort of suggested remedy. If he at least attempted to provide a "remedy",

I provided a few suggestions. To reiterate:

• Lower the skewed point system. There really isn't any reason that a win gets the higher ranked player 10 points and the lower ranked player 40-50 points. Make them even or at most a 2:1 spread. At least this way you would be able to tread water some near the end and get rewarded for actually playing the game, instead of rewarded for sitting there doing nothing.
• Only allow 1-2 people to attack the same player at the same time.
• Put a max number of points that can be removed per hour. Maybe a -200 point limit per hour?

Unknown

D3P will only change IF/WHEN players stop using shields and they lose money because of that.

Season 2 saw less competition (lower scorings), we'll see what it is like for Season 3. We have 27 days to see if there are some changes on the way.

They release patches quite quickly. Let's just hope they bring some fun to the game.

over_clocked

there will never be a lack of crazies that comprise top alliances and are willing to shield every **** tourney. if they go, new ones take their place.

Unknown

Shields distort the scoring system but why should D3 change it if it's making them money? And let's just say D3 doesn't care money, but what does getting rid of shields help? The guys shielded at 1000+ would quickly lose their rating, and then they'd want their rating back, and the shielded guys are probably the strongest players in the game in the first place, so the pounding is only going to get worse.

As long as everyone is roughly equally strong as each other, there's really no way to get ahead of the pack without shields, and if there are no shields there will literally be no way to get ahead of the pack outside of sheer luck.

Slarow

Phantron wrote:

As long as everyone is roughly equally strong as each other, there's really no way to get ahead of the pack without shields, and if there are no shields there will literally be no way to get ahead of the pack outside of sheer luck.

This x1000

I play another Marvel game that has NO shields and only has ~25 day pvp tourneys, and trust me the OP's experience is nothing compared to the bloodbath that ensues in the last hour of those toureys...

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

As long as everyone is roughly equally strong as each other, there's really no way to get ahead of the pack without shields, and if there are no shields there will literally be no way to get ahead of the pack outside of sheer luck.

This is exactly the point though. The whole idea of the shields isn't really a bad one. However, shields should be there to protect you when don't have time to play and defend yourself. Playing the game should be an advantage, not a disadvantage. Paying money to not play the game in order to win is the ridiculous part. It's not a big deal. I'm just not going to play PVP anymore. I'll get kicked from my Alliance, but it's better than not having fun in a broken system.

Unknown

rooter wrote:

Phantron wrote:

As long as everyone is roughly equally strong as each other, there's really no way to get ahead of the pack without shields, and if there are no shields there will literally be no way to get ahead of the pack outside of sheer luck.

This is exactly the point though. The whole idea of the shields isn't really a bad one. However, shields should be there to protect you when don't have time to play and defend yourself. Playing the game should be an advantage, not a disadvantage. Paying money to not play the game in order to win is the ridiculous part. It's not a big deal. I'm just not going to play PVP anymore. I'll get kicked from my Alliance, but it's better than not having fun in a broken system.

It's a problem but I can't think of a better solution at the moment. You can imagine your MMR pool to be roughly like 50 players who are exactly as strong as you are and probably plays similar hours, so how does anyone get ahead? Well right now you pay for shields for an edge, and sure that isn't exactly fair but at least it kind of make sense (the guys who pay money keeps the game afloat). Without shields, it'll just be a pure bloodbath.

Originally you could show up as new targets while shielded so what invariably happens is that the guy who are shielded will get passed up, because after all the guy who is shielded isn't getting more points, while whoever beats on the shielded guys is going to get more points with no possibility of being retaliated. Unfortunately eventually people figured out to quickly identify the shielded opponents and then we have those absurd 2500+ PvP rating too. Even if you completely hide the shield information from players, you'd still be able to notice that soandso had 953 rating last time, and after you hit him he still has 953 when he showed up again, so he's probably shielded.

Unknown

rooter wrote:

I provided a few suggestions. To reiterate:

• Lower the skewed point system. There really isn't any reason that a win gets the higher ranked player 10 points and the lower ranked player 40-50 points. Make them even or at most a 2:1 spread. At least this way you would be able to tread water some near the end and get rewarded for actually playing the game, instead of rewarded for sitting there doing nothing.

The reason for the point spread are 1) same as rubberbanding, to avoid the situation where infinite grinding is the optimal strategy and 2) to (theoretically) reward people for taking on stronger teams. Changing it to even or 2:1 wouldn't actually fix the problem though, you'd still lose points faster than you gain them unless you also implemented something like your second suggestion.

[*]Only allow 1-2 people to attack the same player at the same time.[/*]

This would make the MMR circle of hell problem even worse. Already people have issues where skipping just cycles them through the same five or ten players. If you can't even see them because there's an attack limit, you'll see dramatically fewer people.

[*]Put a max number of points that can be removed per hour. Maybe a -200 point limit per hour?[/*]

Like all loss limitation suggestions, this would dramatically inflate scores, requiring a total rebalancing of progression rewards among other things (and we all know how good D3 is at figuring out appropriate progression.)



So, I'm not saying your suggestions are invalid, merely that they have a lot of consequences that players might not like. This is not a simple problem that can be patched by implementing simple changes, unfortunately.

Unknown

Back when shielded people can show up as targets I remember seeing top 10 look like:

2600
2200
1500
...
1000

And while the current system is pretty messed up, this was probably even more messed up. And that kind of score is likely to show up in anything where you can limit point losses, because if you don't have those drastic drops there's nothing stopping the top grinder from getting an absolutely ridiculous score like that.