PVP scoring is moronic

Unknown

In the last 15 minutes of the Lord of Thunder event, I just lost 425 points. I dropped from 8th places to 84th place in 15 minutes, all while winning matches. Using Cap141, Thor212, and OWB85. I know D3 wants me to pay for shields, but this is ridiculous. Pay to win is bad enough, but pay to not even be able to play the game to win is idiocy. Using tons of power ups and scraping together wins as time is running out should be the most fun time in an event. Instead, you pay money for shields, sit there and do absolutely nothing, and hope that no one passes you. How is that fun?

I give up.

Edit: Since people skip the majority of the posts, I am reposting my possible solutions to correct the problem here:

• Lower the skewed point system. There really isn't any reason that a win gets the higher ranked player 10 points and the lower ranked player 40-50 points. Make them even or at most a 2:1 spread. At least this way you would be able to tread water some near the end and get rewarded for actually playing the game, instead of rewarded for sitting there doing nothing.
• Only allow 1-2 people to attack the same player at the same time.
• Put a max number of points that can be removed per hour. Maybe a -200 point limit per hour?

Unknown

Yeah, we all know it.

I just shielded the last 6 hours or so of Lord of Thunder because every time I poked above 600 I would get slammed for like 150 points. Overnight my time I'd been slammed back from 650-ish to 265. Instead I spent my playing time rising about 800 points in SHIELD Training (where I got hit back like twice the whole time), which didn't get me much in the way of personal rewards but helped my alliance hang on to top 100, so yay.

Lord of Thunder is just about the daftest possible choice for the final PVP of a season, really, since LazyThor boosted to 212 has stupidly high HP to wear down and stupidly high "I got a cascade and now I win!" power (it's bad enough at 141 let alone at 212) and it doesn't really matter what the other team is if you've got one of those, they all die the same.

Not having one, I was relying on C.Mags to chip down the L.Thors and it just isn't fast enough to stay ahead of the stampede.

tbighead21

Need to stay shielded during the last couple hours. Get your points then put up a 3 hour shield. unfortunately It's the only way.

over_clocked

Something similar happened to me in the BP tourney despite having a maxed BP; needless to say I remembered that it was a long time since I did any tanking... I tanked in the following tourneys (climb to 300, tank) and had somewhat better results (not getting attacked every 5 minutes). I try to tank in the beginning of every tourney now.
Sadly oBW welcomes attacks and Captain is sorta useless on defense.

Unknown

Due to the large number of guys with 141X3s it's increasingly more difficult to tank because even if it does work, you'd probably just end up with other guys who tanked as well.

At this point I'm open to ideas like say, your team is picked completely at random each fight. At least I'll either be able to leverage my relatively large number of level 141 characters, or die horribly with Bagman and Hawkeye and at least in that case I can stop trying.

mohio

So I actually ran the same team (except my Cap is only 135 for lack of caring to put the last few levels into him) and I played for an hour or two this morning (up to ~700 maybe) and then another 1.5 hours at around the 6 hours to go mark. I got attacked the least I have in almost any tournament ever, and climbed without shielding to 1015. Even though I wasn't really being attacked I figured that was enough and shielded for the remainder. So, I can only conclude that 1) you didn't shield quickly enough after getting to your high point (probably 900-ish or something?) and 2) you could have had an easier time playing at less peak hours.

In the end I agree with the title, but you could have mitigated your negative experience. Sorry man, at least you know better for next time.

Unknown

I just don't play at all during the last 7-8 hours. I hit my goal shortly after the 8 hour mark (usually around 800), drop a shield, and then just stop. The last few hours is insane.

Unknown

This is working exactly as intended -- from like 2 weeks after debut of shields when they stumbled on the formula that removed shielded people from attack offers.

Probably this can be considered the most stable feature of MPQ -- and that it is moronic play-wise is not something that counts.

Unknown

I'm not sure the money they get from shielding is worth all the frustration and anger players have...

Players could spend their money otherwise and they'd be happier...

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

I just don't play at all during the last 7-8 hours. I hit my goal shortly after the 8 hour mark (usually around 800), drop a shield, and then just stop. The last few hours is insane.

This is exactly the problem. People are actually rewarded for not playing the game. What is even worse, is that intentionally losing is a great way to win as well.

The problem could be leveled out slightly if PVP scoring had equal points for every match. There is no reason for the points to be so skewed that a win gets you 10 points and loss that you have no control over (other that not playing at all) gets you -40. There could at least be a cap placed on how many negative points you can take over time. Even a max of 10 points per minute would help. Players should at least have a way to play their butt off in the last hour and tread water to stay at the same score.

Unknown

The real issue here is shield hopping.

You experienced such a dramatic loss in points right at the end, because multiple people had lined you up while they were shielded. Then in the last 10 minutes (of a PvP event) they come out of their shield and attack you (and a few others) to get another 80-100 points. Their risk of being attacked is pretty minimal because of the short time frame they are available for attack (and the fact that you are unable to retaliate).

Slarow

I know D3 wants me to pay for shields, but this is ridiculous. Pay to win is bad enough, but pay to not even be able to play the game to win is idiocy.

Another day, another duplicate complaint.

Do you have to pay to maintain top 10? No. Do you have to have a shield up at the end of the tourney? Absolutely.

Putting up a shield for the last 3 or even 8 hours does not require you to pay any money. Even just the 900 point progression reward (50hp) and a top 25 finish the previous match (100hp) is enough for you to get an 8 hour shield (or a 3 hour shield for the next 2 tourneys). That doesn't even include the alliance reward (50hp all the way down to 2500'th place).

Additionally, the current PVE is shelling out 100hp per day for top 50 finishes in both sub's (thats ~1k in sub rewards alone).

Not only that, but instead of spending 75hp on a shield for the end of the sub, you lost out on a 1250hp cover (2x in your case, so you lost 2500hp of covers because you wouldn't spend 75 of the hp you earned in the tourney).

Games that are successful like MPQ have to have a good balance of both premium currency (HP) faucets (rewards), and sinks (shields, covers, etc...). Other games only have the sinks, and then most people never use premium currency, and it becomes an even more Pay to Win model. MPQ is way ahead of the game as they give out HP often, and give you choices of where to spend them. Other games, if you want something premium, you always have to pay money for it.

Toxicadam wrote:

You experienced such a dramatic loss in points right at the end, because multiple people had lined you up while they were shielded.

It has nothing to do with what others were doing, he was unshielded and in 8th place. He made the mistake of not dropping 75hp on a shield, and it cost him 2500+hp in rewards

Unknown

Slarow wrote:

It has nothing to do with what others were doing, he was unshielded and in 8th place. He made the mistake of not dropping 75hp on a shield, and it cost him 2500+hp in rewards

If I just shielded, I wouldn't have finished in 8th place, I would have finished out of the top 10. It wasn't a mistake, I just wanted to play the game and got severely punished for it. I know exactly how to win, I've come in first place before. It is just a stupid system that isn't any fun.

Unknown

rooter wrote:

If I just shielded, I wouldn't have finished in 8th place, I would have finished out of the top 10.

You cannot know that. Many times I shielded at 7th-8th place with 3 hours to go and stayed there until the end, one time even getting a couple of positions from 8th to 6th.

rooter wrote:

I know exactly how to win, I've come in first place before.

If you knew EXACTLY how to win we wouldn't be having this conversation, right?
The game has changed since a couple of months ago, you cannot push as high as possible and then shield anymore. Now either you learn to shield hop wisely, or you get lucky with your push strategies.

rooter wrote:

It is just a stupid system that isn't any fun.

Now this is something we can both agree on. Sadly I don't think this is going to change anytime soon, since shields are probably among the biggest sellers for Demiurge.

Unknown

Slarow wrote:

It has nothing to do with what others were doing,

Sure it does, the bulk of his attacks happened in the last 15 minutes, which is when people are coming out of shields to eke out their last bit of points.

It was their behavior which blindsided him as he was able to manage any attacks leading up to that point.

HailMary

rooter wrote:

In the last 15 minutes of the Lord of Thunder event, I just lost 425 points. I dropped from 8th places to 84th place in 15 minutes, all while winning matches. Using Cap141, Thor212, and OWB85. I know D3 wants me to pay for shields, but this is ridiculous. Pay to win is bad enough, but pay to not even be able to play the game to win is idiocy. Using tons of power ups and scraping together wins as time is running out should be the most fun time in an event. Instead, you pay money for shields, sit there and do absolutely nothing, and hope that no one passes you. How is that fun?

I give up.

All those people attacking you in the last few minutes are having the "most fun time" you just described -- they didn't just sit there doing absolutely nothing, hoping that no one passes them. You were just on the business end of their fun. Ergo, the fun you describe still very much exists. You... do realize that other players lose points when you're having oodles of fun attacking them, right?

rooter wrote:

If I just shielded, I wouldn't have finished in 8th place, I would have finished out of the top 10. It wasn't a mistake, I just wanted to play the game and got severely punished for it. I know exactly how to win, I've come in first place before. It is just a stupid system that isn't any fun.

So you've won before, and now that you gotten unlucky with attacks in an event, it's "stupid," "not fun" and you "give up"? Oooookay.

Unknown

Friendly mode on :

You DO know HM that this is a game, that it is addictive, and that we act as kids when we are frustrated right ?

So, you nonetheless try to shed the voice of wisdom in the chaos ?

Friendly mode off

HailMary

arktos1971 wrote:

and that we act as kids when we are frustrated right ?

I remember a time when General Discussion wasn't filled with, to paraphrase you, childish temper tantrums that pretend to be criticisms.

I've been frustrated by sharding, PVE scaling, server outages, and MMR quite a few times recently. I manage to maintain enough self-control and self-respect not to start a thread that shallowly excoriates D3 for my latest personal instance of MPQ frustration, and I optimistically don't believe that I possess extraordinary abilities in that regard.

Slarow

Toxicadam wrote:

Slarow wrote:

It has nothing to do with what others were doing,

Sure it does, the bulk of his attacks happened in the last 15 minutes, which is when people are coming out of shields to eke out their last bit of points.

It was their behavior which blindsided him as he was able to manage any attacks leading up to that point.

Blindsided means he didn't see it coming. Anyone who has ever been in or near the top 10 at the end of a tourney knows this happens, and that you need shields. He was not surprised that it happened, he is complaining THAT it happened, without providing any sort of suggested remedy. If he at least attempted to provide a "remedy", we would be able to point out why all the remedies suggested so far won't work, and therefore why the current system is the best one available right now.

over_clocked

Eh, don't be too hard on the guy. It never happened to him before, but it does happen to everyone someday.
From my experience, I try to shield for the last hour or two when rewards actually interest me and apply more shieldhopping should a need arise. It's not perfect, the perfect way is to score 900+ ... 1100+, of course, and shield through the end, but imo might seem a tad boring as well. If the rewards are not needed, only then I can forgo shielding at all.
The other guys are correct in that you can afford to shield every tourney while being F2P if you also put in some effort every tourney. Try going for 900 pts reward every time and don't feel bad over missed prizes; that will happen with other covers some other day, sometimes through no fault of yours at all (e.g. server outage), tomorrow you might look back and laugh at this.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

arktos1971 wrote:

and that we act as kids when we are frustrated right ?

I remember a time when General Discussion wasn't filled with, to paraphrase you, childish temper tantrums that pretend to be criticisms.

I've been frustrated by sharding, PVE scaling, server outages, and MMR quite a few times recently. I manage to maintain enough self-control and self-respect not to start a thread that shallowly excoriates D3 for my latest personal instance of MPQ frustration, and I optimistically don't believe that I possess extraordinary abilities in that regard.

Your message won't go through even though what you say has a lot of sense.

You can't develop a game that leads people to be addicted, and expect the same people to take some distance when something bad happens. That is just unfair.

You can do that, that's good for your own sanity. Many people can't. They are different from you, yet, they are players like you.