A Thought Experiment

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Blazpheme said:
Interesting.

How often would I use this 'skip' feature? I would honestly say rarely.

The one area of concern I have against activating a 'skip' (as defined above) is the lockout factor - not being able to play the event at all. This aspect could potentially leave me high and dry if a random daily event quest pops up and says "Win missions 15 times with someone I don't have levelled up too good".

Because even if I am not currently playing an event, I can always hop into an active one and drag So-and-So through the level 80 opening nodes a bunch of times real quick and knock those out for them precious points. But if I can't access events at all, I might get stuck with limited options on how I can grind out those 15 with a 3-star Psylocke or something. And I'd just rather not take that chance.

Besides, I'm okay with missing out on stuff if I don't play enough. It's all just for fun anyway. So I would have to either really want the swag, or I'm just not in the mood to deal with whatever bogusness is needed to obtain said swag. I mean, it would definitely be hard to resist 'skipping' a Simulator event, so I absolutely would use it. I would just probably only use it sparingly.

Good point, I missed one there. The skip button will also fully complete any quests that happen during the events you skip. You won't miss out on any rewards of any kind by skipping an event.

Isn't what you are describing basically a 'sandboxed account' where you can award yourself whatever you want whenever you need that hit of dopamine? No need to play the game at all in a sandboxed account, just dole out rewards.

KGB

It's not exactly the same, but it's an interesting point.

A sandboxed account is free to continue cheating in any way they like, but also doesn't appear on others' leaderboards in any events and can't be attacked in PvP. (You can attack other players as normal but they won't lose points and won't be notified of the attack).

When some players hear about this, they ASK to be sandboxed! (The answer is no, they won't just do it because you ask). But it's interesting to me that the ultimate punishment is actually viewed by some as their ideal gameplay experience.

JaGo

Isn't what you are describing basically a 'sandboxed account' where you can award yourself whatever you want whenever you need that hit of dopamine? No need to play the game at all in a sandboxed account, just dole out rewards.

KGB

I was going to say this exact same thing adding that I've known players that did this with "Alt" accounts and quickly found that they really disliked having all characters fully maxed with no effort and never play the alt account.

-JaGo

SnowcaTT

I'd play as-is, since I use this as a time-waster while I get ready for the day. That gets me progression everywhere.

If I could get #1 -placement- rewards for all events, I suppose I could use this as an idler instead and never play again. Wouldn't miss much.

As the 'thought experiment' goes, this shows the dopamine hit for opening packs/leveling characters >> playing the match 3.

entrailbucket

@JaGo said:

Isn't what you are describing basically a 'sandboxed account' where you can award yourself whatever you want whenever you need that hit of dopamine? No need to play the game at all in a sandboxed account, just dole out rewards.

KGB

I was going to say this exact same thing adding that I've known players that did this with "Alt" accounts and quickly found that they really disliked having all characters fully maxed with no effort and never play the alt account.

-JaGo

What's funny is that I'd LOVE this. Maxing out everyone is my goal, and finding fun combos with lesser used characters is what I like the most. I'd never cheat, but if I had every single character maxed out, I'd probably never run out of new stuff to mess around with.

But if someone doesn't like the actual match-3 gameplay, yeah, I imagine they'd get bored pretty quickly.

entrailbucket

@SnowcaTT said:
I'd play as-is, since I use this as a time-waster while I get ready for the day. That gets me progression everywhere.

If I could get #1 -placement- rewards for all events, I suppose I could use this as an idler instead and never play again. Wouldn't miss much.

As the 'thought experiment' goes, this shows the dopamine hit for opening packs/leveling characters >> playing the match 3.

Except why do people want to open up packs and level up characters if they don't care about the match-3? What purpose do the rewards serve? Why do some players want stuff that has no value to them?

bluewolf

....the same reason people buy lottery tickets daily which basically pay out even or less for the occasional win when you take the profits and losses as a whole?

Many people are not great at assessing value of things, time or money included.

The excitement of opening packs is for many much more engaging than playing nodes that you win every time you select the team correctly. Also, making the game easy, and keeping it easy, is the best way to keep the majority of your mobile game customers engaged.

Not realizing that the game is for many folks a roster building - via gambling simulation - game with a match-3 mini game component is to not understand the game.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
....the same reason people buy lottery tickets daily which basically pay out even or less for the occasional win when you take the profits and losses as a whole?

Many people are not great at assessing value of things, time or money included.

The excitement of opening packs is for many much more engaging than playing nodes that you win every time you select the team correctly. Also, making the game easy, and keeping it easy, is the best way to keep the majority of your mobile game customers engaged.

Not realizing that the game is for many folks a roster building - via gambling simulation - game with a match-3 mini game component is to not understand the game.

So they're stupid? Is that including you? These people are just mindlessly chasing a thing that has no value to them, so they can somehow get a dopamine hit from winning said useless thing?

I don't think this is the prevailing viewpoint at all. I think the players who think this way are a tiny, tiny minority, that just happen to be the loudest. It is pretty hilarious that you all seem to think EVERYONE thinks like you. The various echo chambers (and this is one of them) are probably reinforcing that quite a bit.

I think that the people who think this way are burned out and toxic and have forgotten the reason they ever started this game. I fully understand what's happening. I realize exactly what you all think.

But if you're more than the tiny minority I think you are, the game is dead, and I mean that. Catering to you will just kill it faster, because you don't care about gameplay. Why have a game at all if all you want is a skip button?

LuxAurae

This thought experiment that was never a thought experiment but rather a vehicle for EB to disregard any statement and make arguments ex absurdio about imaginary players and situations and game states, has pretty much run its course by now.

Neither side is benefitting from this.

Thank you for your time.

entrailbucket

@LuxAurae said:
This thought experiment that was never a thought experiment but rather a vehicle for EB to disregard any statement and make arguments ex absurdio about imaginary players and situations and game states, has pretty much run its course by now.

Neither side is benefitting from this.

Thank you for your time.

...and there it is.

None of you can have this conversation without resorting to "Bad faith, bad faith!" as a get-out-of-jail free card. Please explain where I've done any of that.

bluewolf

Are people stupid? I don't know if that's the right word. Do they LOVE dopamine? Yes. Do I? Yes, I am as vulnerable to being manipulated as many many other humans are. I realized recently that comics themselves use dopamine triggers by creating anticipation for the next part of the story and you seek some kind of resolution - what else is that than dopamine? You hope the outcome is pleasurable to read (funny or exciting or whatever), but you don't know, maybe it's another issue that you just read and forget. Seeking that hit.

Just like opening a token, you hope it's not a boring old 4* Super Skrull but that Cosmic Iron Man.

I am not advocating for the silly skip button.

I am just saying there are a lot of people who enjoy opening tokens more than playing 50 rounds of PVE to get full points every day. It's more exciting many times to get bonus shards than running the routine teams.

But, maybe they like playing PVP? Most casuals don't.

Many people who play the game seek the easiest/best team to clear things as fast as possible. I would say most who play it a lot are seeking to minimize time spent for rewards earned.

I guess you think we are stupid but that's your take, you want to take longer to play maybe and find new teams. I also like finding new teams but often I'm painted into a corner by my options in SCL10. I am sure there are players who enjoy playing the game and trying out wacky characters and all that, who can say what % that is?

But look, if you get stuff, you need to apply stuff, and I am sure I spend, on some days, more time looking at my roster and supports and deciding what to do with rewards and applying covers than I do swiping tiles. Because my roster is huge and sometimes I am trying to find things or decide who to focus on next and all that.

A casual player probably enjoys opening tokens and getting that random 4 or the bonus shards much more than they enjoy clearing DDQ for the 3000th day in a row.

I'm sure there's a lot of variability as far as how long you've played and what you enjoy more, but:

There is a reason the match-3 play is incredibly easy and predictable but the token-opening part is less predictable and built around dopamine triggers. Up to and including the way offers have often been designed (buy a bundle of tokens, you pull a few for a vault which you may or may not be able to clear - super exciting, right? Maybe you lucked out and got the 50 Galactus shards! ).

There is a huge % of the game design built to cater to gambling tendencies and surely you can see that.

I do not presume to know what each person finds enjoyable but the gambling-adjacent part is where a lot of the money comes from, or they wouldn't keep doing that. It's the main part of the game where the outcome isn't known and that makes it engaging and interesting.

entrailbucket

I suppose there isn't a good time or place to have this conversation, because every place it could be had is dominated by the same players.

What spurred it this time was the immense pushback to extra content. I thought, how could anybody be opposed to more content? Double events are great, because you can either have fun playing the second event, or ignore it if you don't have time or whatever. What sort of player could possibly be opposed (and not just regular opposed, vehemently opposed, and convinced that 99% of all players agreed with them!) to more fun game to play?

The answer is, of course, the small group of extremely loud veterans who dominate conversation about the game and no longer enjoy playing the game part of the game.

You may be the majority here, and on Line, and on Reddit, but you're not the majority of players, and the devs have caved to your demands for too long. Plenty of us like playing the match-3 stuff, and want more of it, and want it to be more interesting, instead of removing or minimizing or making it less interesting. I plan to speak up more about this and I hope the others will too.

bluewolf

I stand by my assertion that the main reason the devs don't give us more content is because they don't want you to earn too much stuff from play.

Just like when PVP was all seeds and seals they shut that down once they figured out how.

Yeah there was a fairness issue for seals, but spending fell dramatically in Sept 2025, which was just after a couple months of "play infinite pvp and earn tons of resources" to the lowest level I have seen,.

More free stuff = less spending. Simple equation.

entrailbucket

@bluewolf said:
Are people stupid? I don't know if that's the right word. Do they LOVE dopamine? Yes. Do I? Yes, I am as vulnerable to being manipulated as many many other humans are. I realized recently that comics themselves use dopamine triggers by creating anticipation for the next part of the story and you seek some kind of resolution - what else is that than dopamine? You hope the outcome is pleasurable to read (funny or exciting or whatever), but you don't know, maybe it's another issue that you just read and forget. Seeking that hit.

Just like opening a token, you hope it's not a boring old 4* Super Skrull but that Cosmic Iron Man.

I am not advocating for the silly skip button.

I am just saying there are a lot of people who enjoy opening tokens more than playing 50 rounds of PVE to get full points every day. It's more exciting many times to get bonus shards than running the routine teams.

But, maybe they like playing PVP? Most casuals don't.

Many people who play the game seek the easiest/best team to clear things as fast as possible. I would say most who play it a lot are seeking to minimize time spent for rewards earned.

I guess you think we are stupid but that's your take, you want to take longer to play maybe and find new teams. I also like finding new teams but often I'm painted into a corner by my options in SCL10. I am sure there are players who enjoy playing the game and trying out wacky characters and all that, who can say what % that is?

But look, if you get stuff, you need to apply stuff, and I am sure I spend, on some days, more time looking at my roster and supports and deciding what to do with rewards and applying covers than I do swiping tiles. Because my roster is huge and sometimes I am trying to find things or decide who to focus on next and all that.

A casual player probably enjoys opening tokens and getting that random 4 or the bonus shards much more than they enjoy clearing DDQ for the 3000th day in a row.

I'm sure there's a lot of variability as far as how long you've played and what you enjoy more, but:

There is a reason the match-3 play is incredibly easy and predictable but the token-opening part is less predictable and built around dopamine triggers. Up to and including the way offers have often been designed (buy a bundle of tokens, you pull a few for a vault which you may or may not be able to clear - super exciting, right? Maybe you lucked out and got the 50 Galactus shards! ).

There is a huge % of the game design built to cater to gambling tendencies and surely you can see that.

I do not presume to know what each person finds enjoyable but the gambling-adjacent part is where a lot of the money comes from, or they wouldn't keep doing that. It's the main part of the game where the outcome isn't known and that makes it engaging and interesting.

I appreciate this response. I think if you recognize you're being manipulated in this way, it's hard for that manipulation to continue. Like slot machines are designed to string people along, make them think they're about to win a jackpot, so they'll keep losing. Some people really do think a slot machine is an investment, or a way to get rich quick! But once you know how they work and how they're manipulating you, why would you continue to engage?

The part that bugs me about what you've said is that the match-3 stuff hasn't always been easy and predictable, and the times that it hasn't have been a BLAST. But every time they try something like this, they get screamed at by a really loud group of players who really, really want the match-3 stuff to be easy and predictable.

Imagine you're a fan of fighting games. Street Fighter 7 comes out, and it's super fun, with balanced, deep, interesting gameplay that allows for tons of skill. But they've added a new mechanic! Every time you win a fight, you get a random hat to put on your character.

Now imagine a group of players obsessed with collecting hats -- all they care about is getting more and more of them. They're very loud and demanding, and they're always pushing Capcom to change the game, make it more unbalanced, make matches go faster and faster so they can get to the hats. When you push back they say "Well who cares about the fighting? You're just wrong -- Street Fighter 7 isn't a fighting game, it's a hat collecting game!" A new character who wins and loses every fight in one hit is great for the game, because it means we can all skip the fighting and just get more and more hats! Eventually they remove the fighting altogether, because "nobody wants it," to focus on hats.

Can you see how this might be frustrating?

SnowcaTT

@entrailbucket said:

Except why do people want to open up packs and level up characters if they don't care about the match-3? What purpose do the rewards serve? Why do some players want stuff that has no value to them?

I mean....answer this and create world peace

SnowcaTT

@bluewolf said:
I stand by my assertion that the main reason the devs don't give us more content is because they don't want you to earn too much stuff from play.

Just like when PVP was all seeds and seals they shut that down once they figured out how.

Yeah there was a fairness issue for seals, but spending fell dramatically in Sept 2025, which was just after a couple months of "play infinite pvp and earn tons of resources" to the lowest level I have seen,.

More free stuff = less spending. Simple equation.

If "player engagement" and "amount of time played" were things that were actually high priorities, then PVE timers and PVP all seeds would still exist.

DAZ0273

@LuxAurae said:
This thought experiment that was never a thought experiment but rather a vehicle for EB to disregard any statement and make arguments ex absurdio about imaginary players and situations and game states, has pretty much run its course by now.

Neither side is benefitting from this.

Thank you for your time.

Wait...did you just decide you can shut this thread down?

LuxAurae

@DAZ0273 said:

@LuxAurae said:
This thought experiment that was never a thought experiment but rather a vehicle for EB to disregard any statement and make arguments ex absurdio about imaginary players and situations and game states, has pretty much run its course by now.

Neither side is benefitting from this.

Thank you for your time.

Wait...did you just decide you can shut this thread down?

No, just that I won’t be participating in it anymore. It’s leading nowhere but shouting louder and bringing up more absurdities.

But thank you for yet another demeaning comment.

entrailbucket

@LuxAurae said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@LuxAurae said:
This thought experiment that was never a thought experiment but rather a vehicle for EB to disregard any statement and make arguments ex absurdio about imaginary players and situations and game states, has pretty much run its course by now.

Neither side is benefitting from this.

Thank you for your time.

Wait...did you just decide you can shut this thread down?

No, just that I won’t be participating in it anymore. It’s leading nowhere but shouting louder and bringing up more absurdities.

But thank you for yet another demeaning comment.

I don't think it's been that at all. I don't know why you're so uncomfortable with this, but I guess I'm sorry I struck a nerve.

Timemachinego

@entrailbucket said:
Now imagine a group of players obsessed with collecting hats -- all they care about is getting more and more of them. They're very loud and demanding, and they're always pushing Capcom to change the game, make it more unbalanced, make matches go faster and faster so they can get to the hats. When you push back they say "Well who cares about the fighting? You're just wrong -- Street Fighter 7 isn't a fighting game, it's a hat collecting game!" A new character who wins and loses every fight in one hit is great for the game, because it means we can all skip the fighting and just get more and more hats! Eventually they remove the fighting altogether, because "nobody wants it," to focus on hats.

Can you see how this might be frustrating?

Ironically this is very similar to what happened across the lifespan of Team Fortress 2.

MegaBee

@SnowcaTT said:

@entrailbucket said:

Except why do people want to open up packs and level up characters if they don't care about the match-3? What purpose do the rewards serve? Why do some players want stuff that has no value to them?

I mean....answer this and create world peace

It's cheaper and less self-destructive than buying scratch-off lottery tickets.