Should supports be completely removed from PVP

kuntilanak

@entrailbucket said:

@kuntilanak said:
I already said it in other previous thread that supports in PVP sucks every bit of fun away... I'd suggest 1 simple solution: in PVP, only allow supports used by player, NOT AI. Done. Just like playing PVE.

I'd like to see supports on defense in PvE too. They could make some really fun fights!

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I already said it in other previous thread that supports in PVP sucks every bit of fun away... I'd suggest 1 simple solution: in PVP, only allow supports used by player, NOT AI. Done. Just like playing PVE.

I'm don't mind if we have Supports or not but turning PvP in to PvE would be the end of MPQ for me. Why does anybody want MORE PvE?

Why do I have the feeling that we're not playing the same game... Jk 😂

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@Bustapup said:
YES YES YES YES YES YES

Or

They need nerfing massively. Anything that gives you a shed load of AP on turn one should be permanently banned or removed. Invisible. Away. Any kind of protection, removed

But then if 1a5 Spider-Man didn't have a ridiculous purple power then him having purple AP on start up wouldn't matter. But he does. The problems are as much with (especially) the ascended characters and some of the outlier 5s (not gonna name names but we know) than they are the Supports.

Why leave it there? Low level AI is a potent weapon on strike tile teams, Lucky and Refreshment Cart heal, Power stone and Krakoa fire free powers. If we start nerfing everything what would even be the point of these things? I encountered an ascended Abomination who I am sure was getting some cheap thrills from Gamma Rays.

Nerfing also seems difficult to do and keep these things worth caring about.

Then again, we haven't had a new Support since...? So who knows what is up with them.

Gamma Rays is actually crazy good, but maybe not on Abomination.

I said it earlier, but I don't like the free AP supports. They feel gross. Starting with 6 (or 12, or 18!) free AP generally means the game is over immediately -- just windmill slam the button for whatever active ability you've powered up and you win.

The problem is, taking away the free AP supports would mean going back to a metagame where everything is incredibly fast, high-damage passive powers, vs the current incredibly fast, high-damage active powers. And that means we're right back to only a few characters being viable.

Like this week Cable is boosted. At 672 his green is crazy, but without the free AP supports, against Juggernaut/Sam (even with Cable at 672!) he's probably dead before you can ever cast it. He goes back to being completely unusable ever.

So I'd support removing or nerfing the free AP supports, but only as part of a general initiative to slow the game down that included nerfs to the crazy fast passives (and so this will never happen).

DAZ0273

@kuntilanak said:

@entrailbucket said:

@kuntilanak said:
I already said it in other previous thread that supports in PVP sucks every bit of fun away... I'd suggest 1 simple solution: in PVP, only allow supports used by player, NOT AI. Done. Just like playing PVE.

I'd like to see supports on defense in PvE too. They could make some really fun fights!

@DAZ0273 said:

@kuntilanak said:
I already said it in other previous thread that supports in PVP sucks every bit of fun away... I'd suggest 1 simple solution: in PVP, only allow supports used by player, NOT AI. Done. Just like playing PVE.

I'm don't mind if we have Supports or not but turning PvP in to PvE would be the end of MPQ for me. Why does anybody want MORE PvE?

Why do I have the feeling that we're not playing the same game... Jk 😂

We could well not be! I just play what I feel like! Sometimes I'll play PvE, sometimes not. I haven't bothered with Lost in Time even though it is actually one of the ones I prefer. Sometimes I'll go as far as I can in PvP and other times I might not care after 12 wins! I'm in no particular rush and then sometimes I am!

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@Bustapup said:
YES YES YES YES YES YES

Or

They need nerfing massively. Anything that gives you a shed load of AP on turn one should be permanently banned or removed. Invisible. Away. Any kind of protection, removed

But then if 1a5 Spider-Man didn't have a ridiculous purple power then him having purple AP on start up wouldn't matter. But he does. The problems are as much with (especially) the ascended characters and some of the outlier 5s (not gonna name names but we know) than they are the Supports.

Why leave it there? Low level AI is a potent weapon on strike tile teams, Lucky and Refreshment Cart heal, Power stone and Krakoa fire free powers. If we start nerfing everything what would even be the point of these things? I encountered an ascended Abomination who I am sure was getting some cheap thrills from Gamma Rays.

Nerfing also seems difficult to do and keep these things worth caring about.

Then again, we haven't had a new Support since...? So who knows what is up with them.

Gamma Rays is actually crazy good, but maybe not on Abomination.

I said it earlier, but I don't like the free AP supports. They feel gross. Starting with 6 (or 12, or 18!) free AP generally means the game is over immediately -- just windmill slam the button for whatever active ability you've powered up and you win.

The problem is, taking away the free AP supports would mean going back to a metagame where everything is incredibly fast, high-damage passive powers, vs the current incredibly fast, high-damage active powers. And that means we're right back to only a few characters being viable.

Like this week Cable is boosted. At 672 his green is crazy, but without the free AP supports, against Juggernaut/Sam (even with Cable at 672!) he's probably dead before you can ever cast it. He goes back to being completely unusable ever.

So I'd support removing or nerfing the free AP supports, but only as part of a general initiative to slow the game down that included nerfs to the crazy fast passives (and so this will never happen).

Right. Supports either enable powers that are already crazy good to be ridiculous or they provide a needed boost to characters who are underpar without them.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@Bustapup said:
YES YES YES YES YES YES

Or

They need nerfing massively. Anything that gives you a shed load of AP on turn one should be permanently banned or removed. Invisible. Away. Any kind of protection, removed

But then if 1a5 Spider-Man didn't have a ridiculous purple power then him having purple AP on start up wouldn't matter. But he does. The problems are as much with (especially) the ascended characters and some of the outlier 5s (not gonna name names but we know) than they are the Supports.

Why leave it there? Low level AI is a potent weapon on strike tile teams, Lucky and Refreshment Cart heal, Power stone and Krakoa fire free powers. If we start nerfing everything what would even be the point of these things? I encountered an ascended Abomination who I am sure was getting some cheap thrills from Gamma Rays.

Nerfing also seems difficult to do and keep these things worth caring about.

Then again, we haven't had a new Support since...? So who knows what is up with them.

Gamma Rays is actually crazy good, but maybe not on Abomination.

I said it earlier, but I don't like the free AP supports. They feel gross. Starting with 6 (or 12, or 18!) free AP generally means the game is over immediately -- just windmill slam the button for whatever active ability you've powered up and you win.

The problem is, taking away the free AP supports would mean going back to a metagame where everything is incredibly fast, high-damage passive powers, vs the current incredibly fast, high-damage active powers. And that means we're right back to only a few characters being viable.

Like this week Cable is boosted. At 672 his green is crazy, but without the free AP supports, against Juggernaut/Sam (even with Cable at 672!) he's probably dead before you can ever cast it. He goes back to being completely unusable ever.

So I'd support removing or nerfing the free AP supports, but only as part of a general initiative to slow the game down that included nerfs to the crazy fast passives (and so this will never happen).

Right. Supports either enable powers that are already crazy good to be ridiculous or they provide a needed boost to characters who are underpar without them.

And that's the thing -- remove them and suddenly almost everyone goes back to being underpar/totally unusable, even with the weekly boost. So they're a necessary evil at this point. We shouldn't need them to exist at all, but until they fix all the crazy fast passives we do.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@Bustapup said:
YES YES YES YES YES YES

Or

They need nerfing massively. Anything that gives you a shed load of AP on turn one should be permanently banned or removed. Invisible. Away. Any kind of protection, removed

But then if 1a5 Spider-Man didn't have a ridiculous purple power then him having purple AP on start up wouldn't matter. But he does. The problems are as much with (especially) the ascended characters and some of the outlier 5s (not gonna name names but we know) than they are the Supports.

Why leave it there? Low level AI is a potent weapon on strike tile teams, Lucky and Refreshment Cart heal, Power stone and Krakoa fire free powers. If we start nerfing everything what would even be the point of these things? I encountered an ascended Abomination who I am sure was getting some cheap thrills from Gamma Rays.

Nerfing also seems difficult to do and keep these things worth caring about.

Then again, we haven't had a new Support since...? So who knows what is up with them.

Gamma Rays is actually crazy good, but maybe not on Abomination.

I said it earlier, but I don't like the free AP supports. They feel gross. Starting with 6 (or 12, or 18!) free AP generally means the game is over immediately -- just windmill slam the button for whatever active ability you've powered up and you win.

The problem is, taking away the free AP supports would mean going back to a metagame where everything is incredibly fast, high-damage passive powers, vs the current incredibly fast, high-damage active powers. And that means we're right back to only a few characters being viable.

Like this week Cable is boosted. At 672 his green is crazy, but without the free AP supports, against Juggernaut/Sam (even with Cable at 672!) he's probably dead before you can ever cast it. He goes back to being completely unusable ever.

So I'd support removing or nerfing the free AP supports, but only as part of a general initiative to slow the game down that included nerfs to the crazy fast passives (and so this will never happen).

Right. Supports either enable powers that are already crazy good to be ridiculous or they provide a needed boost to characters who are underpar without them.

And that's the thing -- remove them and suddenly almost everyone goes back to being underpar/totally unusable, even with the weekly boost. So they're a necessary evil at this point. We shouldn't need them to exist at all, but until they fix all the crazy fast passives we do.

I guess maybe the other solution is that we have a selection of Supports available each week for all events and that rotates sort of like the boost list. Then we can't always just turn 0 Frankie. It might make things interesting if we have a week of having to deal with Leapfrog but the following week is another fresh challenge.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@Bustapup said:
YES YES YES YES YES YES

Or

They need nerfing massively. Anything that gives you a shed load of AP on turn one should be permanently banned or removed. Invisible. Away. Any kind of protection, removed

But then if 1a5 Spider-Man didn't have a ridiculous purple power then him having purple AP on start up wouldn't matter. But he does. The problems are as much with (especially) the ascended characters and some of the outlier 5s (not gonna name names but we know) than they are the Supports.

Why leave it there? Low level AI is a potent weapon on strike tile teams, Lucky and Refreshment Cart heal, Power stone and Krakoa fire free powers. If we start nerfing everything what would even be the point of these things? I encountered an ascended Abomination who I am sure was getting some cheap thrills from Gamma Rays.

Nerfing also seems difficult to do and keep these things worth caring about.

Then again, we haven't had a new Support since...? So who knows what is up with them.

Gamma Rays is actually crazy good, but maybe not on Abomination.

I said it earlier, but I don't like the free AP supports. They feel gross. Starting with 6 (or 12, or 18!) free AP generally means the game is over immediately -- just windmill slam the button for whatever active ability you've powered up and you win.

The problem is, taking away the free AP supports would mean going back to a metagame where everything is incredibly fast, high-damage passive powers, vs the current incredibly fast, high-damage active powers. And that means we're right back to only a few characters being viable.

Like this week Cable is boosted. At 672 his green is crazy, but without the free AP supports, against Juggernaut/Sam (even with Cable at 672!) he's probably dead before you can ever cast it. He goes back to being completely unusable ever.

So I'd support removing or nerfing the free AP supports, but only as part of a general initiative to slow the game down that included nerfs to the crazy fast passives (and so this will never happen).

Right. Supports either enable powers that are already crazy good to be ridiculous or they provide a needed boost to characters who are underpar without them.

And that's the thing -- remove them and suddenly almost everyone goes back to being underpar/totally unusable, even with the weekly boost. So they're a necessary evil at this point. We shouldn't need them to exist at all, but until they fix all the crazy fast passives we do.

I guess maybe the other solution is that we have a selection of Supports available each week for all events and that rotates sort of like the boost list. Then we can't always just turn 0 Frankie. It might make things interesting if we have a week of having to deal with Leapfrog but the following week is another fresh challenge.

They'd have to curate it to match the boosted characters, and I don't think they're capable of that currently.

JoeHandle

Nope, but keep tenderizing that rotten horseflesh

SuperCarrot

Some characters become less of a problem with the supports gone…and then you might not need to nerf those characters…just a thought