Valgavoth

sarimace

I can't say I like that non-PW characters are being turned into PWs. If we want to have more color options, I would have preferred to have some PWs from the past that did not get a card get a chance, rather than just turning random legendaries into PWs.

More importantly though:
I think that the Valgavoth passive is a huge mistake. For several reasons:
a) it makes certain objectives impossible to meet, just by getting paired against a specific PW. With how punishing even a single dropped objective is, this is just straight up a mistake.
b) While I think that we should have more graveyard hate in the game, I don't think a PW ability is a good place to put it. A PW is the center of any deck players build, and having to switch decks to get access to this type of effect forces players into a specific strategy, instead of adapting the one they chose to play.
c) The effect is way too powerful for what it is - an uninteractable effect on the entire game.
d) Any effect or ability that is impossible to interact with is going to be miserable to play against or unplayable. This is fine for events, but not for card & PW design (Valgavoth is not the only or first to do this, but this is even harder to play around that other variations on this theme we have seen so far)
e) Its not graveyard-centered strategies that are a problem, its individual designs. Until recently, reanimation (mass, targeted, random) has been kept in check by the fact, that it was pretty hard to fill the GY. STA & Grist specifically are problems, not graveyard based decks in general. If this is meant to be the answer to those, it misses the target by a mile, because it completely avoids the actual problem.

Keyler

Totally agree, I said just the same about Valgavoth into the "Release Notes 7.5.1 (NEW PLANESWALKERS FROM CREATURE CARDS)" post . In my case I like to add PWs from creature cards to have more variety, especially if they are the tri-colored pws that are missing to complete the 10 different ones.

Janosik

@sarimace said:
I can't say I like that non-PW characters are being turned into PWs. If we want to have more color options, I would have preferred to have some PWs from the past that did not get a card get a chance, rather than just turning random legendaries into PWs.

One thing about this approach tho is that I believe there are certain color combinations for which there are no Planeswalkers in paper, and I think many of us players would like to see one or more PWs for all of the 3 color combinations, and we wouldn't mind Webcore converting a character into a Planeswalker in order to achieve this. We've seen it before in MTGPQ after all, for example with Fblthp, Daxos and Kalemne.

Here's a relevant thread:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/90873/abzan-wbg-naya-wrg-sultai-ubg

More importantly though:
I think that the Valgavoth passive is a huge mistake. For several reasons:
a) it makes certain objectives impossible to meet, just by getting paired against a specific PW. With how punishing even a single dropped objective is, this is just straight up a mistake.

Can't argue with this point tho. In Seize the Day, for example, one of the objectives requires you to "Have 20 or more cards in your graveyard during a single fight", and there's literally no way to do this against Valgavoth. You lose points, getting busted way down the overall event leaderboard, greatly affecting your prizes, for the sin of being randomly drawn against a specific opponent.

TheDude1

@Janosik said:

We've seen it before in MTGPQ after all, for example with Fblthp, Daxos and Kalemne.

It's even more common than that - every PvE match is against a "character PW", especially if they have loyalty abilities to deploy. It's pretty trivial to make a card into a PW within this game, the limit is the creativity in their abilities.

madwren

I'm certainly not averse to recursion hate--there are already options in Legacy, after all--to help counter Grist. However, there absolutely has to be a way for people to achieve objectives fairly and not instantly be locked out of completing them because you got randomly paired against Valgavoth.

Tunist

Came to the forum to bring up the issues the passive cause for objectives based on getting a certain number of cards to your own graveyard. Losing out on those points because you were randomly paired against a pw that prevents it in a way you can't interact with will suck. Especially since losing a few points in many events can significantly reduce your prizes

Scydrex7

I second other players' concerns regarding automatically losing points by simply being matched up against this walker. Please consider potential solutions to this problem.

Also, I would like to congratulate the design team for all their efforts in creating new and refreshing content for the game. Keep up the great work!