A bunch of buffs happened

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  • kuntilanak
    kuntilanak Posts: 248 Tile Toppler

    @entrailbucket said:
    I also feel like we've spent a lot of time on this one particular case that may not be representative, and I haven't heard anybody else chime in on this one..

    The original question was "when you say PvP is showing you teams you can't beat, does that actually mean teams you can't beat without using a health pack?"

    For me, those teams showing in my Q are essentially cannot be beaten using my current lineup... Health packs don't help.

  • Grantosium
    Grantosium Posts: 90 Match Maker
    edited 24 October 2025, 07:21

    @entrailbucket said:
    I also feel like we've spent a lot of time on this one particular case that may not be representative, and I haven't heard anybody else chime in on this one..

    The original question was "when you say PvP is showing you teams you can't beat, does that actually mean teams you can't beat without using a health pack?"

    I can't really find a way to answer this without it sounding like bragging. I softcap my 5s. My highest level character, 4* Juggs, hit 360 yesterday. PvP almost never shows me teams I can't beat without a health pack. I can beat teams of 550s with no problem and no need for a health pack.

    When it shows me "peers" I can generally rely on Sam and Juggs because my "peers" are in a transition phase and don't have well built characters. When I punch up Multiple Man and Daredevil can kill everything, except Doctor Strange. Usually if I'm punching up and they have Doctor Strange they don't have a high synergy team so I can revert to using Sam/Juggs.

    If I can do this and have almost no teams that I "can't beat" while softcapping my 5s, I don't understand why anyone firmly in 5 land would have anything to complain about. I think the real complaint is probably more that people don't want to be locked into using the same characters. [edit: or possibly the complaint is they can't beat the team in under a minute, rather than without health packs?]

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,914 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    I also feel like we've spent a lot of time on this one particular case that may not be representative, and I haven't heard anybody else chime in on this one..

    The original question was "when you say PvP is showing you teams you can't beat, does that actually mean teams you can't beat without using a health pack?"

    I'll chime in - use of a health pack doesn't determine whether I attack a team or not. There are various factors which determine who I attack - how many points the team has, my realistic chances of winning, will a retal against me give more points than I win. If I am down to my last health pack or two I will usually be more discerning but I tend to use a character until they either die or will die too early in the next match before healing them.

  • Grantosium
    Grantosium Posts: 90 Match Maker

    Are you suggesting that you would describe teams you would choose not to attack for points reasons as teams you "can't beat"?

    Stop me if I'm being too literal!

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,914 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Grantosium said:
    Are you suggesting that you would describe teams you would choose not to attack for points reasons as teams you "can't beat"?

    Stop me if I'm being too literal!

    Who me? The only way I know I definitely can't beat a team is by attacking it and losing! I won't deny that there are some teams I don't always fancy taking on but that doesn't mean I can't beat them. But if a team is worth like 10 points and can retal me for like 30, I am not going to give them that easy victory because I lose more than I gain.

  • Grantosium
    Grantosium Posts: 90 Match Maker

    If you do attack it and lose it doesn't mean you couldn't have won! Unless you believe in predeterminism.

    I usually go for 25 wins and will take on virtually anyone for virtually any number of points. If I already have 25 wins I usually stop playing the event but if I have time on my hands and an inclination to do more I'll swap to points and probably would skip anything under 20 points.

    Best are when you can hit them for 70-80 and if they retail it's worth 1-10 to them and then you can hit them again for 65-70. Hard to believe some people running around with 550 rosters and giving away free points like that. Guess they're playing for wins rather than points at that stage.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,649 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Grantosium said:
    If you do attack it and lose it doesn't mean you couldn't have won! Unless you believe in predeterminism.

    Best are when you can hit them for 70-80 and if they retail it's worth 1-10 to them and then you can hit them again for 65-70. Hard to believe some people running around with 550 rosters and giving away free points like that. Guess they're playing for wins rather than points at that stage.

    at 550 (which means they running 672 in boosted weekly) They are most likely finishing matches sub 2min tops. So assume they are targeting 30 1/2 covers per hour.

    The points don't really matter either, because they assume they can recover placement/points based on who they think is hopping next.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,914 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Grantosium said:
    If you do attack it and lose it doesn't mean you couldn't have won! Unless you believe in predeterminism.

    I usually go for 25 wins and will take on virtually anyone for virtually any number of points. If I already have 25 wins I usually stop playing the event but if I have time on my hands and an inclination to do more I'll swap to points and probably would skip anything under 20 points.

    Best are when you can hit them for 70-80 and if they retail it's worth 1-10 to them and then you can hit them again for 65-70. Hard to believe some people running around with 550 rosters and giving away free points like that. Guess they're playing for wins rather than points at that stage.

    But we are talking about one fight at a time. If I lose, I am not getting another chance unless I can find that specific team again. I think my point in general is that I am not afraid of fighting teams because I might lose.

  • Grantosium
    Grantosium Posts: 90 Match Maker

    @Phumade said:

    at 550 (which means they running 672 in boosted weekly) They are most likely finishing matches sub 2min tops. So assume they are targeting 30 1/2 covers per hour.

    The points don't really matter either, because they assume they can recover placement/points based on who they think is hopping next.

    Ah, you know what? That does make a lot more sense than thinking they've been playing a game for the best part of a decade and haven't worked out how points work.

    You have inadvertently robbed me of the ability to laugh to myself and think these players are idiots. Instead it's more of an "everybody wins" scenario.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,552 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Grantosium said:
    If you do attack it and lose it doesn't mean you couldn't have won! Unless you believe in predeterminism.

    I usually go for 25 wins and will take on virtually anyone for virtually any number of points. If I already have 25 wins I usually stop playing the event but if I have time on my hands and an inclination to do more I'll swap to points and probably would skip anything under 20 points.

    Best are when you can hit them for 70-80 and if they retail it's worth 1-10 to them and then you can hit them again for 65-70. Hard to believe some people running around with 550 rosters and giving away free points like that. Guess they're playing for wins rather than points at that stage.

    I do this!

    Well, depending on what you used to hit me. I don't really care about points, but if you hit me for 75 I take that as a sign that you want to fight! So I'll hit back a few times, maybe with different teams that might be harder for you to beat, until you wipe.

    If you do keep hitting and don't wipe, I'll dump all my points and start taking 75 off you until you shield.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,552 Chairperson of the Boards

    @kuntilanak said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    I also feel like we've spent a lot of time on this one particular case that may not be representative, and I haven't heard anybody else chime in on this one..

    The original question was "when you say PvP is showing you teams you can't beat, does that actually mean teams you can't beat without using a health pack?"

    For me, those teams showing in my Q are essentially cannot be beaten using my current lineup... Health packs don't help.

    What's an example of a team like this and what's your current lineup? Does "lineup" refer to your entire roster, or just the team you've chosen to use for that event?

  • Grantosium
    Grantosium Posts: 90 Match Maker

    Shields are for quitters!

  • JoeHandle
    JoeHandle Posts: 806 Critical Contributor
    edited 24 October 2025, 16:18

    @Grantosium said:
    If you do attack it and lose it doesn't mean you couldn't have won! Unless you believe in predeterminism.

    I usually go for 25 wins and will take on virtually anyone for virtually any number of points. If I already have 25 wins I usually stop playing the event but if I have time on my hands and an inclination to do more I'll swap to points and probably would skip anything under 20 points.

    Best are when you can hit them for 70-80 and if they retail it's worth 1-10 to them and then you can hit them again for 65-70. Hard to believe some people running around with 550 rosters and giving away free points like that. Guess they're playing for wins rather than points at that stage.

    It's not giving anything away, you have to win the match :D

    I do this a lot. Because I am playing for wins ... in bulk. If you play an event long enough, esp early, you'll find yourself in a lonely place. Can only q players worth 10pts or less. Have to hit someone, and to continue climbing, you need people up at your level. Find people that will keep trading hits, and doing so brings them up.

    One week in, I have 300wins in Sim. Obviously, its not about points. I like decent placement, sure, will take what I can get. I finished 2nd in a pvp recently, amazing I haven't finished that high in a loooooooong time! But, the cover drops are far more lucrative than any placements rewards, and, if playing a lot of matches, the progressions become incidental. I just want as many wins as I can get in the time I have to play.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,552 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Grantosium said:
    Shields are for quitters!

    Well, remember, for most players, MPQ is extremely serious business. They don't have time for these sorts of shenanigans or tomfoolery. They need to punch in, get their work done, and punch out as quickly as possible.

  • Phumade
    Phumade Posts: 2,649 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Grantosium said:
    Shields are for quitters!

    Well, remember, for most players, MPQ is extremely serious business. They don't have time for these sorts of shenanigans or tomfoolery. They need to punch in, get their work done, and punch out as quickly as possible.

    screenshotted jajajajaajajaajja

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,914 Chairperson of the Boards

    I don't even have the 200 shields milestone yet.

  • Grantosium
    Grantosium Posts: 90 Match Maker

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Grantosium said:
    Shields are for quitters!

    Well, remember, for most players, MPQ is extremely serious business. They don't have time for these sorts of shenanigans or tomfoolery. They need to punch in, get their work done, and punch out as quickly as possible.

    "Punch out"? Isn't that another word for "quit"? ;)

    I don't even have the 25 shields milestone.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,552 Chairperson of the Boards

    When the first wave of crazy 5* whales showed up, they started pushing everyone else around and basically bullying them (in game -- anyone who has ever bullied someone out of game over MPQ is a deranged loser who has no place in our community).

    My team's response was not to complain to the devs or just quit. We kept throwing ourselves at those teams and dying over and over until we could find a way to win. (And this was so much harder back then! We were relying on stuff like 4* Sam Wilson's red!). Then we bided our time, remembered their names, waited until we could catch up, and HIT BACK. A lot.

    So if the game is showing you players you can't beat, that's a great motivator to improve your roster so you can beat up those jerks! If big players are punching down at you, find a way get your revenge!

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,552 Chairperson of the Boards

    If there are a few characters who don't ever need health packs, and everybody else in the entire game does, then that's a problem with those few characters, not a reason to throw out the health pack system.

    We saw this with OML years ago.

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