Marvel Puzzle Quest: Character Rebalances - Batch #1

BriMan2222

@turbomoose said:
1 at a time is fine , but a list of upcoming nerfs would be handy , as someone said earlier, it would help us plan what to spend our resources on

They haven't said officially, but I remember several months ago on discord they mentioned they were looking at a few meta characters to nerf. From what I recall Polaris, mthor, and shang chi were the ones specifically named.

entrailbucket

@KGB said:

@S0kun said:

@entrailbucket said:
Huh, just Polaris, weird.

That's a lot of buffs though! Very welcome news.

The plan is to do 1 main meta character nerf at a time so we can see the impact of how these rebalances play out.

You'll obviously see a massive move to the remaining meta characters. As each gets nerfed more and more will pile into the remaining ones.

KGB

This is how it should work, and how they should be doing this. If (for example) they murder Polaris, then her usage goes down to a normal range and usage of Peggy Thor skyrockets, you nerf Peggy Thor next.

One at a time. Too many moving pieces risks killing someone who didn't deserve it, and it's really hard to anticipate where the metagame will go in advance.

entrailbucket

@turbomoose said:
1 at a time is fine , but a list of upcoming nerfs would be handy , as someone said earlier, it would help us plan what to spend our resources on

Seconded. They should have a "watch list" of who they're looking at at any given time. Most other games do this.

BriMan2222

Found it. Also may listed, though I'm not sure that's the iron or surfer variety

S0kun

I think our upcoming nerf list is still being considered, but I'll check with the team on who is confirmed. Suffice to say, most of the names you'll see shouldn't be any surprise to anyone.

SuperCarrot

I also play Marvel Snap and am very use to frequent changes…which is fine if they are frequent buffs and nerfs. Frequent being the main thing…which encourages a deep roster (which might also encourage more spending, also very aware of the problems with that game).

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:
Found it. Also may listed, though I'm not sure that's the iron or surfer variety

All of these characters are mostly-offense, low-defense characters, and I'm beyond happy to see them on this list. "Overpowered on offense" is absolutely a thing.

Kalidor

I primarily play PvE and only occasionally dip into PvP when necessary. I'm extremely disappointed to hear about the Polaris nerf as it only "benefits" the PvP side of the game.
I play at the lowest available SCL to me in PvP and I don't have the best rosta full of the ascended or champed options. Nerfing Polaris will take opportunity for a win against much better teams away from me. Yes, Polaris punches above her weight on offense, but I also know she's an easy target on defense which my negative loss scores will attest to each time I log into the game.
As for PvE, she's essential for me to get a quick clearance otherwise it becomes a boring, tedious slog each node.

Polaris is not the problem. If there is a problem, it's a lack of viable counters.

Blackstone

@Scorpion201 said:
Way to kill the game with Polaris nerf, yet doesn't mighty Thor doesnt get touch . Ridiculous, one foot out the door this game is a mess . It's funny you allow 5 star characters pound on the lower rosters, but don't allow any 4 star characters punch their way up.

Take a moment to consider how you would react if you weren't relying on Polaris. I think it's natural for people to allow emotion to influence their view of things and if you feel the Polaris nerf will specifically impact your gameplay you'll feel it's unfair. The fact you point out her ability to help you "punch up" shows that you understand she's more powerful than other characters you have access to.

Basically: you know she OP because you benefit from her OPness. You're upset about the nerf, not because she doesn't need it, but because of how it affects you specifically.

It's ok to admit that, say you wish it were different, then assess what to do next.

The reality is that her powers (when used together as explained in the announcement) are over powered. Always have been. It's the reason she's used so much. It's the reason people have been anticipating her nerf for as long as she's existed. She's OP. No further debate needed.

Can she be beaten on defence? Yes...I regularly hunt for Polaris teams because they can be beaten if you don't let them get a cascade going. Does that mean she's balanced? Nope. It's irrelevant.

You can be upset about it, or you can examine your roster and plan how to move forward. There are guides on this forum that are very helpful. There are even people willing to help. I've seen people create a discussion listing their full roster and getting advice on how to be more successful.

You have options. You're also welcome to put your other foot out of the door. Nothing's stopping you but you.

But I'd guess you don't want to do that or you wouldn't be so upset about one nerf that actually seems pretty reasonable compared to others.

Anyway, be angry, rant about it, then take a breath and think about things from different perspectives.

Best of luck.

MegaBee

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:
Found it. Also may listed, though I'm not sure that's the iron or surfer variety

All of these characters are mostly-offense, low-defense characters, and I'm beyond happy to see them on this list. "Overpowered on offense" is absolutely a thing.

I don't know that I'd put SC in that same group. It actually takes some thought to run SC.

amigopdude22

@S0kun said:
While strong characters are fun, when the meta feels predictable, creativity and strategy take a hit. To keep the game exciting and strategic, we’re planning a shake up with batched rebalances. Rather than making sweeping changes all at once, each batch will feature a variety of buffs for underused characters and carefully considered adjustments to one dominant character.

Lol so the snake eating its own tail begins.

As with all games that focus on "balance updates", it'll take no time at all for people to find and build a new meta. Then we'll be right back here. The options are to do these more frequently, meaning players are less likely to invest in characters because there's no guarantee of power (Sidewinder effect), or people will simply quit because what's supposed to be fun/relaxing now comes with weekly or monthly homework to keep up with the fundamental changes that are made.

Can't wait to see what new hell the next meta brings and see people miss the days pre-nerfs.

BCS- "Don't worry players, we've released new clearance levels that come with more game-breaking bugs and wait for a monthly update to do anything about them while obviously introducing new bugs, but we're right on top of changing all the characters you've spent time and resources building. Also, our monetary offers are working just fine and on schedule because god forbid.....except for the times where we get your money but you don't get the right things you pay for!"

entrailbucket

@amigopdude22 said:

@S0kun said:
While strong characters are fun, when the meta feels predictable, creativity and strategy take a hit. To keep the game exciting and strategic, we’re planning a shake up with batched rebalances. Rather than making sweeping changes all at once, each batch will feature a variety of buffs for underused characters and carefully considered adjustments to one dominant character.

Lol so the snake eating its own tail begins.

As with all games that focus on "balance updates", it'll take no time at all for people to find and build a new meta. Then we'll be right back here. The options are to do these more frequently, meaning players are less likely to invest in characters because there's no guarantee of power (Sidewinder effect), or people will simply quit because what's supposed to be fun/relaxing now comes with weekly or monthly homework to keep up with the fundamental changes that are made.

Can't wait to see what new hell the next meta brings and see people miss the days pre-nerfs.

BCS- "Don't worry players, we've released new clearance levels that come with more game-breaking bugs and wait for a monthly update to do anything about them while obviously introducing new bugs, but we're right on top of changing all the characters you've spent time and resources building. Also, our monetary offers are working just fine and on schedule because god forbid.....except for the times where we get your money but you don't get the right things you pay for!"

Just curious -- what are some successful, popular multiplayer games that don't "focus on balance updates?"

entrailbucket

@MegaBee said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:
Found it. Also may listed, though I'm not sure that's the iron or surfer variety

All of these characters are mostly-offense, low-defense characters, and I'm beyond happy to see them on this list. "Overpowered on offense" is absolutely a thing.

I don't know that I'd put SC in that same group. It actually takes some thought to run SC.

He's good on offense and bad on defense -- I didn't say anything about requiring thought!

(Although the popular Shang-Chi/m'Thor team is literally just "cast random m'Thor powers, get random cascades, win game").

Warbringa

@BriMan2222 said:
Found it. Also may listed, though I'm not sure that's the iron or surfer variety

I think they are looking at the wrong characters here for the most part. In higher level play those characters are not the true meta, nor the most unbalanced characters. There are far better ascended 5* teams than those characters that are way more OP. 4* Ascended MBaku, 3* Ascended Namor, 4* Ascended Juggs, and of course 5* Sam Wilson Cap are more unbalanced than the characters on this list. The new Nova may eventually deserve a spot too. Ascension has made some characters very wonky and why some are powerhouses and others get worse as you ascend them makes no sense.

BriMan2222

@Kalidor said:
I primarily play PvE and only occasionally dip into PvP when necessary. I'm extremely disappointed to hear about the Polaris nerf as it only "benefits" the PvP side of the game.
I play at the lowest available SCL to me in PvP and I don't have the best rosta full of the ascended or champed options. Nerfing Polaris will take opportunity for a win against much better teams away from me. Yes, Polaris punches above her weight on offense, but I also know she's an easy target on defense which my negative loss scores will attest to each time I log into the game.
As for PvE, she's essential for me to get a quick clearance otherwise it becomes a boring, tedious slog each node.

Polaris is not the problem. If there is a problem, it's a lack of viable counters.

Playing at the lowest scl in pvp is a big mistake. Scl makes no difference in opponents you see, it only changes the rewards. By choosing the lowest option all you're doing is making sure you get less rewards.

TheXMan

@ThisisClemFandango said:

@Bustapup said:

@ThisisClemFandango said:
An increase to Peggy even though she's still not functioning properly

Thanks?

Sorry this seems negative, a damage increase is of course welcome

Why isn't Peggy functioning properly?

Not my words, BCS's words
Apparently she isnt working as they planned her to
I'll see if I can find it

Answer 13 on Oct 2023 Q&A:

"Question: Worthy Peggy is some hot garbage. Why did you choose to treat a MPQ original so bad?

Answer: I think that Worthy Peggy is not functioning as intended. As I write this, the team is working on making some corrections and improvements."

amigopdude22

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@S0kun said:
While strong characters are fun, when the meta feels predictable, creativity and strategy take a hit. To keep the game exciting and strategic, we’re planning a shake up with batched rebalances. Rather than making sweeping changes all at once, each batch will feature a variety of buffs for underused characters and carefully considered adjustments to one dominant character.

Lol so the snake eating its own tail begins.

As with all games that focus on "balance updates", it'll take no time at all for people to find and build a new meta. Then we'll be right back here. The options are to do these more frequently, meaning players are less likely to invest in characters because there's no guarantee of power (Sidewinder effect), or people will simply quit because what's supposed to be fun/relaxing now comes with weekly or monthly homework to keep up with the fundamental changes that are made.

Can't wait to see what new hell the next meta brings and see people miss the days pre-nerfs.

BCS- "Don't worry players, we've released new clearance levels that come with more game-breaking bugs and wait for a monthly update to do anything about them while obviously introducing new bugs, but we're right on top of changing all the characters you've spent time and resources building. Also, our monetary offers are working just fine and on schedule because god forbid.....except for the times where we get your money but you don't get the right things you pay for!"

Just curious -- what are some successful, popular multiplayer games that don't "focus on balance updates?"

MPQ is hardly the type of "multiplayer" game that requires balance updates. There is zero real-time PVP elements. With the exception of the Boss Fights, we all effectively play in an echo chamber. Placement and success is based on timing and proper shield usage, and on the top ends of the brackets, collaboration with the other top players.

amigopdude22

@Warbringa said:

@BriMan2222 said:
Found it. Also may listed, though I'm not sure that's the iron or surfer variety

I think they are looking at the wrong characters here for the most part. In higher level play those characters are not the true meta, nor the most unbalanced characters. There are far better ascended 5* teams than those characters that are way more OP. 4* Ascended MBaku, 3* Ascended Namor, 4* Ascended Juggs, and of course 5* Sam Wilson Cap are more unbalanced than the characters on this list. The new Nova may eventually deserve a spot too. Ascension has made some characters very wonky and why some are powerhouses and others get worse as you ascend them makes no sense.

True for the most part. Also, a lot of the perceived "OP-ness" of certain characters primarily comes from the synergies with other characters. Iron-May by herself is nothing but people expect to see her get nerfed. Meanwhile Okoye can ramp other characters up pretty quickly herself and she's fine. Similar with how Sidewinder only served to be a boost partner and was nerfed quickly.

And yes, I'm aware that Iron-May does both Match and Power damage and to a higher percentage, it's just a general point about synergy and perception over ACTUAL OP characters.

entrailbucket

@amigopdude22 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@amigopdude22 said:

@S0kun said:
While strong characters are fun, when the meta feels predictable, creativity and strategy take a hit. To keep the game exciting and strategic, we’re planning a shake up with batched rebalances. Rather than making sweeping changes all at once, each batch will feature a variety of buffs for underused characters and carefully considered adjustments to one dominant character.

Lol so the snake eating its own tail begins.

As with all games that focus on "balance updates", it'll take no time at all for people to find and build a new meta. Then we'll be right back here. The options are to do these more frequently, meaning players are less likely to invest in characters because there's no guarantee of power (Sidewinder effect), or people will simply quit because what's supposed to be fun/relaxing now comes with weekly or monthly homework to keep up with the fundamental changes that are made.

Can't wait to see what new hell the next meta brings and see people miss the days pre-nerfs.

BCS- "Don't worry players, we've released new clearance levels that come with more game-breaking bugs and wait for a monthly update to do anything about them while obviously introducing new bugs, but we're right on top of changing all the characters you've spent time and resources building. Also, our monetary offers are working just fine and on schedule because god forbid.....except for the times where we get your money but you don't get the right things you pay for!"

Just curious -- what are some successful, popular multiplayer games that don't "focus on balance updates?"

MPQ is hardly the type of "multiplayer" game that requires balance updates. There is zero real-time PVP elements. With the exception of the Boss Fights, we all effectively play in an echo chamber. Placement and success is based on timing and proper shield usage, and on the top ends of the brackets, collaboration with the other top players.

We absolutely do not play in an echo chamber. Every event has a leaderboard, and we are always in competition. Point gain and loss happens in real time anyway -- I can snipe you 5 times while you're hopping, for example.

Anyway, I'm guessing you don't have any examples of successful multiplayer games that completely ignore balance?

WhiteBomber

I very much look forward to every character change on that list!

Go wild on those buffs @S0kun ! Not a single of the previous buffs made it off the bench, but now's your chance! Whatever number buffs you were considering, DOUBLE TRIPLE it (especially ability cost reduction)!