Can‘t equip supports in season sim

Chrynos1989

Some of the are not even showing up, I‘m on IOS

@S0kun what‘s that now??

Edit: is this some new feature blocking out certain supports this season? Heads up would have been nice…

DAZ0273

It seems limited to just some.

I noticed Sam was missing a Support even though I had not done anything to him. I went into Supports, equipped Eros Arrow, went into SHIELD Sim, Eros Arrow not equipped. Likewise with trying Leapfrog on Juggernaut. I put Fantasticar on Shang Chi, subbed him for Sam, no Fantasticar. However, Goose who I had equipped with low level AI not been affected and showing that equipped. Thanos Copter is missing too.

So this looks to be a deliberate lock out of certain Supports.

Edit: Just checked in Identity Theft and Shang Chi showing Fantasticar equipped, so is either bug or a lock out for SHIELD Sim only of some Supports.

ArchusMonk

I haven’t played Sim myself, but people in my alliance have. They said Leapfrog, Thanos Copter, Fantasticar, and Eros’ Arrow are not useable in Sim only. These are still useable in pick 2, and other supports are still useable in Sim.

DAZ0273

Yeah and just to clarify - this isn't a visual glitch - you can exit out, go to the Supports page, equip one of the 4 and when you go back into SHIELD Sim it is not usable.

Chrynos1989

@DAZ0273 @ArchusMonk
Thx for your replies
yeah, expected that, just had the first anxiety of them having Unity-ed IOS earlier than planned

KGB

So looks like we are finally getting some 'balances' to supports in PvP in that they are going to limit what's usable where.

Ironically locking out those supports just means we'll see everyone equipping the ones that give +X AP at start of battle to fire powers immediately. Followed by endless threads of eating nukes on turn 1 of the AIs turn due to supports giving free AP. Followed by calls for more supports to be removed from PvP (or return of Leapfrog) and on it goes.

KGB

DAZ0273

Seems like the big 3 defensive Supports are gone but Fantasticar is mostly offence based, so maybe these 4 were the most used?

BriMan2222

@KGB said:
So looks like we are finally getting some 'balances' to supports in PvP in that they are going to limit what's usable where.

Or this is just an unintended bug. Will the locked out supports come back into sim? Will the devs let us know if this is an unintended bug or an intentional balance update? Who knows? That's part of the fun of the MPQ mystery...

liminal_lad

So the supports we’ve all chased because they’re the best are now blocked. Cool move. Very whale friendly move there.

entrailbucket

@ArchusMonk said:
I haven’t played Sim myself, but people in my alliance have. They said Leapfrog, Thanos Copter, Fantasticar, and Eros’ Arrow are not useable in Sim only. These are still useable in pick 2, and other supports are still useable in Sim.

There were rumors that this was what they were going to do -- "ban" certain supports from PvP. I didn't think they'd actually do it. Maybe it is just a bug or an unintended preview.

The cascade supports can still be useful in PvE, I guess, but banning Leapfrog and Eros Arrow from PvP is essentially nerfing them. There is no reason you'd ever use either support outside of PvP, so they may as well be removed from the game completely.

JoeHandle

@DAZ0273 said:
Seems like the big 3 defensive Supports are gone but Fantasticar is mostly offence based, so maybe these 4 were the most used?

Car is also defensive, negating first several big damage attacks ......... with PvP matches tending to be short and fast, it can essentially negate all big hits. Really saves on heals ... hmm ... so did the bow, and the leaper ... in a game that monetizes heals ... oopsie.

JoeHandle

@BriMan2222 said:

@KGB said:
So looks like we are finally getting some 'balances' to supports in PvP in that they are going to limit what's usable where.

Or this is just an unintended bug. Will the locked out supports come back into sim? Will the devs let us know if this is an unintended bug or an intentional balance update? Who knows? That's part of the fun of the MPQ mystery...

Comment on another platform (why use the offical forum, that's be silly...) indicates it was expected by the team, but the team member commenting wasn't aware the change was going live.

Confidence is high, I repeat, confidence is .... ummm .... high?

entrailbucket

@JoeHandle said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@KGB said:
So looks like we are finally getting some 'balances' to supports in PvP in that they are going to limit what's usable where.

Or this is just an unintended bug. Will the locked out supports come back into sim? Will the devs let us know if this is an unintended bug or an intentional balance update? Who knows? That's part of the fun of the MPQ mystery...

Comment on another platform (why use the offical forum, that's be silly...) indicates it was expected by the team, by the team member commenting wasn't aware the change was going live.

Confidence is high, I repeat, confidence is .... ummm .... high?

Assuming its intentional and will apply in all PvP (I saw a discord screenshot indicating that this was the plan) this'll blow up the metagame in a hilarious, awesome way.

It kills Sam/Juggernaut pretty completely immediately, as well as M'baku/Namor. Without any kind of defensive supports, some of the "cheese teams" get even worse. Single target nukes become playable again. PvP likely gets much, much faster. I expect we'll see the free AP supports.

I'm not sure what the "meta" team is in this theoretical new environment. Any guesses?

ArchusMonk

@entrailbucket said:

@JoeHandle said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@KGB said:
So looks like we are finally getting some 'balances' to supports in PvP in that they are going to limit what's usable where.

Or this is just an unintended bug. Will the locked out supports come back into sim? Will the devs let us know if this is an unintended bug or an intentional balance update? Who knows? That's part of the fun of the MPQ mystery...

Comment on another platform (why use the offical forum, that's be silly...) indicates it was expected by the team, by the team member commenting wasn't aware the change was going live.

Confidence is high, I repeat, confidence is .... ummm .... high?

Assuming its intentional and will apply in all PvP (I saw a discord screenshot indicating that this was the plan) this'll blow up the metagame in a hilarious, awesome way.

It kills Sam/Juggernaut pretty completely immediately, as well as M'baku/Namor. Without any kind of defensive supports, some of the "cheese teams" get even worse. Single target nukes become playable again. PvP likely gets much, much faster. I expect we'll see the free AP supports.

I'm not sure what the "meta" team is in this theoretical new environment. Any guesses?

I’m curious why you think Sam/Jugg and Namor/Baku will no longer be viable? Or do you just mean from a defensive standpoint without the defensive supports protecting them? Because from an offensive standpoint losing the possibility of friendly cascades slows things down a little but that’s probably more than made up for by the reduced chance of enemy cascades. I guess Sam/Jugg definitely benefits from early cascades getting more strikes out quickly, but Baku’s damage will be just as high. If anything, this might shift things back to Baku/Namor? I know I personally never counted on FCar or Copter cascades happening for me when I ran those teams (though I was definitely happy when they happened). I guess only time will tell.

Edited to add that supports are not useable in LRs, and the predominant team in LRs by far is still Juggs/Sam. For whatever that is worth.

entrailbucket

@ArchusMonk said:

@entrailbucket said:

@JoeHandle said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@KGB said:
So looks like we are finally getting some 'balances' to supports in PvP in that they are going to limit what's usable where.

Or this is just an unintended bug. Will the locked out supports come back into sim? Will the devs let us know if this is an unintended bug or an intentional balance update? Who knows? That's part of the fun of the MPQ mystery...

Comment on another platform (why use the offical forum, that's be silly...) indicates it was expected by the team, by the team member commenting wasn't aware the change was going live.

Confidence is high, I repeat, confidence is .... ummm .... high?

Assuming its intentional and will apply in all PvP (I saw a discord screenshot indicating that this was the plan) this'll blow up the metagame in a hilarious, awesome way.

It kills Sam/Juggernaut pretty completely immediately, as well as M'baku/Namor. Without any kind of defensive supports, some of the "cheese teams" get even worse. Single target nukes become playable again. PvP likely gets much, much faster. I expect we'll see the free AP supports.

I'm not sure what the "meta" team is in this theoretical new environment. Any guesses?

I’m curious why you think Sam/Jugg and Namor/Baku will no longer be viable? Or do you just mean from a defensive standpoint without the defensive supports protecting them? Because from an offensive standpoint losing the possibility of friendly cascades slows things down a little but that’s probably more than made up for by the reduced chance of enemy cascades. I guess Sam/Jugg definitely benefits from early cascades getting more strikes out quickly, but Baku’s damage will be just as high. If anything, this might shift things back to Baku/Namor? I know I personally never counted on FCar or Copter cascades happening for me when I ran those teams (though I was definitely happy when they happened). I guess only time will tell.

Edited to add that supports are not useable in LRs, and the predominant team in LRs by far is still Juggs/Sam. For whatever that is worth.

I'm not sure. Personally I don't play Sam/Juggernaut very much. I do fight them a ton though, and losing Copter AND Leapfrog at once turns them into a total pushover. The only time that team ever presented problems was when it hit a monster cascade (often!), or the whole team went invisible (also often!).

It's possible that inertia keeps them going. I'm not sure why they were being used in LR besides "this is the best team, so I guess I'll use them for everything." They are still quite strong, but this removes almost all of their defensive strength, and to some extent it also removes their strength on offense. AoEs aren't affected by Leapfrog, so in a Leapfrog metagame, a bunch of rapidly-scaling passive AoEs are a great strategy.

The M'baku team is similar -- they were trying to hit you with a cascade before you could do anything. Removing enemy Leapfrog might make that team better, because now they can actually hit somebody turn0 without sending them away.

LavaManLee

I don't think Sam/Juggs is going anywhere. Just steamrolled to 50 wins in Sim using Sam/Juggs just with different supports. The team is still super viable and super fast. Those supports made them better, but they already were very very good without them. Will I get retaliated? Of course. Everything is beatable.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:
I don't think Sam/Juggs is going anywhere. Just steamrolled to 50 wins in Sim using Sam/Juggs just with different supports. The team is still super viable and super fast. Those supports made them better, but they already were very very good without them. Will I get retaliated? Of course. Everything is beatable.

Interesting!

Assuming this is actually a change they're making on purpose then, how does everyone feel about it?

I like it obviously, because it shakes up the metagame a little (maybe?), removes a bunch of randomness from cascades AND saves me a huge amount of bother from Leapfrog.

(I noticed this before and kind of forgot to post about it, but I think one reason Leapfrog bothers me more than most is that my match damage tends to set it off (I know Juggernaut's will too, but I'm running boosted characters and might not have a passive AoE like he does)).

KGB

Personally I love Leapfrog so will hate to see it go (I don't use the others in PvP).

It's pretty much the only defense against an early AI cascade followed by a Nuke or AI Supports giving enough AP for an immediate Nuke. I suspect we'll just get endless threads complaining about eating turn 1 Nukes from support AP.

I'd be more than fine if they just changed Leapfrog to remove the invisible component but kept in the avoid eating nuke damage part. That way it would at least give you a couple of 'get out of jail free' against big Nukes.

KGB

BriMan2222

IMO leapfrog and arrow were super annoying and I only used them because not using them made you a bigger target, so I'm not sad to see them go. As for the meta, I'm guessing everyone will just change Juggernaut's support to implanted bomb or omipotence city and they'll still be perfectly viable, just less annoying to fight. Even in lightning round with no supports it still was not uncommon for the enemy team to get a lucky cascade that blew up your team before you can do anything.

LavaManLee

@BriMan2222 said:
IMO leapfrog and arrow were super annoying and I only used them because not using them made you a bigger target, so I'm not sad to see them go. As for the meta, I'm guessing everyone will just change Juggernaut's support to implanted bomb or omipotence city and they'll still be perfectly viable, just less annoying to fight. Even in lightning round with no supports it still was not uncommon for the enemy team to get a lucky cascade that blew up your team before you can do anything.

Bingo. Implanted Bomb on Juggs and Low Level AI on Sam. Honestly, removing the other supports from SIM doesn't really change much. In fact, there were times where Thanos Copter would actually ruin a cascade by doing its swap thing.

entrailbucket

@LavaManLee said:

@BriMan2222 said:
IMO leapfrog and arrow were super annoying and I only used them because not using them made you a bigger target, so I'm not sad to see them go. As for the meta, I'm guessing everyone will just change Juggernaut's support to implanted bomb or omipotence city and they'll still be perfectly viable, just less annoying to fight. Even in lightning round with no supports it still was not uncommon for the enemy team to get a lucky cascade that blew up your team before you can do anything.

Bingo. Implanted Bomb on Juggs and Low Level AI on Sam. Honestly, removing the other supports from SIM doesn't really change much. In fact, there were times where Thanos Copter would actually ruin a cascade by doing its swap thing.

I expected so much more outrage!

I guess this means it's a good change then?