Getting bored

BriMan2222

Continuing indefinitely: Sam/Jugg week!

It was their week when jugg was boosted, it will be their week when Sam is boosted, and it's been their week all the weeks neither of them were boosted. Unless a new character is released that hard counters them the way Wanda did hulkoye or one/both of them is nerfed their week will continue to be every week.

DAZ0273

Gasp I got hit by Jeff!!!! Now this I have to retal! With Magik also!

DAZ0273

Sorry Jeff fans, he is now dead. Back to your regularly scheduled programme.

DAZ0273

@BriMan2222 said:
Continuing indefinitely: Sam/Jugg week!

It was their week when jugg was boosted, it will be their week when Sam is boosted, and it's been their week all the weeks neither of them were boosted. Unless a new character is released that hard counters them the way Wanda did hulkoye or one/both of them is nerfed their week will continue to be every week.

Yeah well, I'm trying to keep morale up here! We got a Jeff hit on me! The tide is maybe turning!

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:
Continuing indefinitely: Sam/Jugg week!

It was their week when jugg was boosted, it will be their week when Sam is boosted, and it's been their week all the weeks neither of them were boosted. Unless a new character is released that hard counters them the way Wanda did hulkoye or one/both of them is nerfed their week will continue to be every week.

This is extra funny because in theory Wanda herself should counter them (she's specifically made to reduce and punish multiple AoE hits) but they put out so much damage that she can reduce it by 80% and it doesn't even matter.

BriMan2222

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:
Continuing indefinitely: Sam/Jugg week!

It was their week when jugg was boosted, it will be their week when Sam is boosted, and it's been their week all the weeks neither of them were boosted. Unless a new character is released that hard counters them the way Wanda did hulkoye or one/both of them is nerfed their week will continue to be every week.

This is extra funny because in theory Wanda herself should counter them (she's specifically made to reduce and punish multiple AoE hits) but they put out so much damage that she can reduce it by 80% and it doesn't even matter.

She worked really well against them when she was boosted to lvl 672. But at 550 she gets overwhelmed quickly.

entrailbucket

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:
Continuing indefinitely: Sam/Jugg week!

It was their week when jugg was boosted, it will be their week when Sam is boosted, and it's been their week all the weeks neither of them were boosted. Unless a new character is released that hard counters them the way Wanda did hulkoye or one/both of them is nerfed their week will continue to be every week.

This is extra funny because in theory Wanda herself should counter them (she's specifically made to reduce and punish multiple AoE hits) but they put out so much damage that she can reduce it by 80% and it doesn't even matter.

She worked really well against them when she was boosted to lvl 672. But at 550 she gets overwhelmed quickly.

On top of that, her damage is single target, so it just sends them invisible/away. Without Leapfrog she'd at least be able to hurt them somewhat.

BriMan2222

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@BriMan2222 said:
Continuing indefinitely: Sam/Jugg week!

It was their week when jugg was boosted, it will be their week when Sam is boosted, and it's been their week all the weeks neither of them were boosted. Unless a new character is released that hard counters them the way Wanda did hulkoye or one/both of them is nerfed their week will continue to be every week.

This is extra funny because in theory Wanda herself should counter them (she's specifically made to reduce and punish multiple AoE hits) but they put out so much damage that she can reduce it by 80% and it doesn't even matter.

She worked really well against them when she was boosted to lvl 672. But at 550 she gets overwhelmed quickly.

On top of that, her damage is single target, so it just sends them invisible/away. Without Leapfrog she'd at least be able to hurt them somewhat.

I paired her with Polaris with Krakoa support. With the support and b/p ap boosts and all ap boosts you can use Polaris stun immediately and use it on whoever has leapfrog equipped.

DAZ0273

You guys are just making an extra case for Polaris here...

Scofie

@DeNappa said:

Scofie said:
The problem here is not just in the game, it's in the choices players make in order to win. I think the only way to change player behaviour is to change the way that you win, or implement factors that affect your score. For example:

• No Points lost if you lose on offense.
• A Points reduction for winning using the same team on consecutive turns, with a scaled reduction (e.g. 10% per turn).

Match #1: use saved team BRB/Polaris.
Match #2: use saved team Sam/Juggs
Repeat.

At least you can choose to use 2 different teams to combat them...

Scofie

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:

@Bustapup said:

@WhiteBomber said:
If you want to play Magik5, go Toni Ho, she actually breathes some life in to the not so good Magik5. Though, I'm still not sure I would take them against BRB Polaris without someone who counters SAPs. Toni stun is probably enough.

So this is my point....if u can't even use her in a boosted event because she will still get stomped on my Polaris, why bother building any character that isn't meta? It's a HUGE problem with the game.

And I'll reiterate again, I know how to counter teams so saying my team deserved to be beaten is basically confirming my point, ie. To beat these teams you have to rely on the same old boring characters day in and day out. I've got a champed Goblin, unlocked 5 covers for Toni and I've tried with brand, Wanda etc ....characters who SHOULD sync with Magik and it makes zero difference.

My magik is high level and she is boosted so and you're STILL telling me that she should be wiped out in turn one?

Using the "rock/paper/scissors" analogy though, if the person you're playing against keeps using rocks, it doesn't matter how good your scissors are. At some point you have to use paper and hope your next opponent is a bit more interesting.

The problem here is not just in the game, it's in the choices players make in order to win. I think the only way to change player behaviour is to change the way that you win, or implement factors that affect your score. For example:

• No Points lost if you lose on offense.
• A Points reduction for winning using the same team on consecutive turns, with a scaled reduction (e.g. 10% per turn).
• A Points reduction for the number of times that team has been run in the event across all players.
• Can attack with a team you've not used before in the event whilst shielded without losing your shield.

Those might drive different teams to fight. I know the new engine isn't a magic wand but I wonder if there are other things that could change the face of PvP in a way that might encourage a bit of player diversity. Any ideas welcome!

Weekly boosts should already be accomplishing this. The boost is massive -- it turns a lvl450 baby champ into a 550+ endgame character. "The wall" will still exist, because "the wall" will always exist. MPQ incentivizes you to run the strongest possible team. But "the wall" should change every single week. Why doesn't it? Why do we see the same teams over and over again for years, no matter who's boosted?

Because chosen synergy is always better than random duo. I am not of the mindset to think "that should work but it doesn't so let's not go anything else". I think the questions you ask at the end are key, but I'd ask: how do we make the same teams less attractive to use over and over again?

WhiteBomber

Scofie knows what's up. If you know it's a hard counter to your team, all you have to do in this instance was swap one person to someone who counters them back.

I just pushed my 25 wins in the Toni ho event and saw different teams all the way to over 700 points. If anything, the main recurring factor was Magik was on the majority of those teams (and she is a jerk with Toni). So, either they need to fix everyone else's MMR, or people are being dramatic.

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:
Scofie knows what's up. If you know it's a hard counter to your team, all you have to do in this instance was swap one person to someone who counters them back.

I just pushed my 25 wins in the Toni ho event and saw different teams all the way to over 700 points. If anything, the main recurring factor was Magik was on the majority of those teams (and she is a jerk with Toni). So, either they need to fix everyone else's MMR, or people are being dramatic.

...25 wins/700 points. We are not playing the same game.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:

@WhiteBomber said:
Scofie knows what's up. If you know it's a hard counter to your team, all you have to do in this instance was swap one person to someone who counters them back.

I just pushed my 25 wins in the Toni ho event and saw different teams all the way to over 700 points. If anything, the main recurring factor was Magik was on the majority of those teams (and she is a jerk with Toni). So, either they need to fix everyone else's MMR, or people are being dramatic.

...25 wins/700 points. We are not playing the same game.

No. Not quite.

entrailbucket

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:

@Bustapup said:

@WhiteBomber said:
If you want to play Magik5, go Toni Ho, she actually breathes some life in to the not so good Magik5. Though, I'm still not sure I would take them against BRB Polaris without someone who counters SAPs. Toni stun is probably enough.

So this is my point....if u can't even use her in a boosted event because she will still get stomped on my Polaris, why bother building any character that isn't meta? It's a HUGE problem with the game.

And I'll reiterate again, I know how to counter teams so saying my team deserved to be beaten is basically confirming my point, ie. To beat these teams you have to rely on the same old boring characters day in and day out. I've got a champed Goblin, unlocked 5 covers for Toni and I've tried with brand, Wanda etc ....characters who SHOULD sync with Magik and it makes zero difference.

My magik is high level and she is boosted so and you're STILL telling me that she should be wiped out in turn one?

Using the "rock/paper/scissors" analogy though, if the person you're playing against keeps using rocks, it doesn't matter how good your scissors are. At some point you have to use paper and hope your next opponent is a bit more interesting.

The problem here is not just in the game, it's in the choices players make in order to win. I think the only way to change player behaviour is to change the way that you win, or implement factors that affect your score. For example:

• No Points lost if you lose on offense.
• A Points reduction for winning using the same team on consecutive turns, with a scaled reduction (e.g. 10% per turn).
• A Points reduction for the number of times that team has been run in the event across all players.
• Can attack with a team you've not used before in the event whilst shielded without losing your shield.

Those might drive different teams to fight. I know the new engine isn't a magic wand but I wonder if there are other things that could change the face of PvP in a way that might encourage a bit of player diversity. Any ideas welcome!

Weekly boosts should already be accomplishing this. The boost is massive -- it turns a lvl450 baby champ into a 550+ endgame character. "The wall" will still exist, because "the wall" will always exist. MPQ incentivizes you to run the strongest possible team. But "the wall" should change every single week. Why doesn't it? Why do we see the same teams over and over again for years, no matter who's boosted?

Because chosen synergy is always better than random duo. I am not of the mindset to think "that should work but it doesn't so let's not go anything else". I think the questions you ask at the end are key, but I'd ask: how do we make the same teams less attractive to use over and over again?

The boost list is quite big and it's not hard at all to find synergy among the list. Choosing random boosted characters would certainly be a disadvantage, but why would anyone do that?

The strong characters simply outclass everyone else, even when decent characters are boosted to 672. Players make a rational decision to run the strongest possible teams.

Scofie

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:

@Bustapup said:

@WhiteBomber said:
If you want to play Magik5, go Toni Ho, she actually breathes some life in to the not so good Magik5. Though, I'm still not sure I would take them against BRB Polaris without someone who counters SAPs. Toni stun is probably enough.

So this is my point....if u can't even use her in a boosted event because she will still get stomped on my Polaris, why bother building any character that isn't meta? It's a HUGE problem with the game.

And I'll reiterate again, I know how to counter teams so saying my team deserved to be beaten is basically confirming my point, ie. To beat these teams you have to rely on the same old boring characters day in and day out. I've got a champed Goblin, unlocked 5 covers for Toni and I've tried with brand, Wanda etc ....characters who SHOULD sync with Magik and it makes zero difference.

My magik is high level and she is boosted so and you're STILL telling me that she should be wiped out in turn one?

Using the "rock/paper/scissors" analogy though, if the person you're playing against keeps using rocks, it doesn't matter how good your scissors are. At some point you have to use paper and hope your next opponent is a bit more interesting.

The problem here is not just in the game, it's in the choices players make in order to win. I think the only way to change player behaviour is to change the way that you win, or implement factors that affect your score. For example:

• No Points lost if you lose on offense.
• A Points reduction for winning using the same team on consecutive turns, with a scaled reduction (e.g. 10% per turn).
• A Points reduction for the number of times that team has been run in the event across all players.
• Can attack with a team you've not used before in the event whilst shielded without losing your shield.

Those might drive different teams to fight. I know the new engine isn't a magic wand but I wonder if there are other things that could change the face of PvP in a way that might encourage a bit of player diversity. Any ideas welcome!

Weekly boosts should already be accomplishing this. The boost is massive -- it turns a lvl450 baby champ into a 550+ endgame character. "The wall" will still exist, because "the wall" will always exist. MPQ incentivizes you to run the strongest possible team. But "the wall" should change every single week. Why doesn't it? Why do we see the same teams over and over again for years, no matter who's boosted?

Because chosen synergy is always better than random duo. I am not of the mindset to think "that should work but it doesn't so let's not go anything else". I think the questions you ask at the end are key, but I'd ask: how do we make the same teams less attractive to use over and over again?

The boost list is quite big and it's not hard at all to find synergy among the list. Choosing random boosted characters would certainly be a disadvantage, but why would anyone do that?

The strong characters simply outclass everyone else, even when decent characters are boosted to 672. Players make a rational decision to run the strongest possible teams.

I think your last couple of replies do make sense but to the point you made, you're playing a different game to many other players. Not everyone has the range of ascended characters at usable levels that make a difference or provide synergy when boosted. The strong characters are universally good and are excellent when paired with others, allowing the punching up to occur.

My point was badly phrased by using the term "random," but what I meant was that the boost list is not chosen for it's synergy, it's based on other factors. The 5*s that are boosted are, as a result, less synergistic and therefore less effective, than unboosted 5s with good synergy.

WhiteBomber

@entrailbucket said:

@WhiteBomber said:
Scofie knows what's up. If you know it's a hard counter to your team, all you have to do in this instance was swap one person to someone who counters them back.

I just pushed my 25 wins in the Toni ho event and saw different teams all the way to over 700 points. If anything, the main recurring factor was Magik was on the majority of those teams (and she is a jerk with Toni). So, either they need to fix everyone else's MMR, or people are being dramatic.

...25 wins/700 points. We are not playing the same game.

What game are you playing then? Is the frustration now that this is only a problem after X amount of wins and X amount of points?

entrailbucket

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:

@entrailbucket said:

@Scofie said:

@Bustapup said:

@WhiteBomber said:
If you want to play Magik5, go Toni Ho, she actually breathes some life in to the not so good Magik5. Though, I'm still not sure I would take them against BRB Polaris without someone who counters SAPs. Toni stun is probably enough.

So this is my point....if u can't even use her in a boosted event because she will still get stomped on my Polaris, why bother building any character that isn't meta? It's a HUGE problem with the game.

And I'll reiterate again, I know how to counter teams so saying my team deserved to be beaten is basically confirming my point, ie. To beat these teams you have to rely on the same old boring characters day in and day out. I've got a champed Goblin, unlocked 5 covers for Toni and I've tried with brand, Wanda etc ....characters who SHOULD sync with Magik and it makes zero difference.

My magik is high level and she is boosted so and you're STILL telling me that she should be wiped out in turn one?

Using the "rock/paper/scissors" analogy though, if the person you're playing against keeps using rocks, it doesn't matter how good your scissors are. At some point you have to use paper and hope your next opponent is a bit more interesting.

The problem here is not just in the game, it's in the choices players make in order to win. I think the only way to change player behaviour is to change the way that you win, or implement factors that affect your score. For example:

• No Points lost if you lose on offense.
• A Points reduction for winning using the same team on consecutive turns, with a scaled reduction (e.g. 10% per turn).
• A Points reduction for the number of times that team has been run in the event across all players.
• Can attack with a team you've not used before in the event whilst shielded without losing your shield.

Those might drive different teams to fight. I know the new engine isn't a magic wand but I wonder if there are other things that could change the face of PvP in a way that might encourage a bit of player diversity. Any ideas welcome!

Weekly boosts should already be accomplishing this. The boost is massive -- it turns a lvl450 baby champ into a 550+ endgame character. "The wall" will still exist, because "the wall" will always exist. MPQ incentivizes you to run the strongest possible team. But "the wall" should change every single week. Why doesn't it? Why do we see the same teams over and over again for years, no matter who's boosted?

Because chosen synergy is always better than random duo. I am not of the mindset to think "that should work but it doesn't so let's not go anything else". I think the questions you ask at the end are key, but I'd ask: how do we make the same teams less attractive to use over and over again?

The boost list is quite big and it's not hard at all to find synergy among the list. Choosing random boosted characters would certainly be a disadvantage, but why would anyone do that?

The strong characters simply outclass everyone else, even when decent characters are boosted to 672. Players make a rational decision to run the strongest possible teams.

I think your last couple of replies do make sense but to the point you made, you're playing a different game to many other players. Not everyone has the range of ascended characters at usable levels that make a difference or provide synergy when boosted. The strong characters are universally good and are excellent when paired with others, allowing the punching up to occur.

My point was badly phrased by using the term "random," but what I meant was that the boost list is not chosen for it's synergy, it's based on other factors. The 5*s that are boosted are, as a result, less synergistic and therefore less effective, than unboosted 5s with good synergy.

Chicken/egg. Nobody bothers to invest in, say, Magik, because they've got absolutely no reason to do so. So when her boost week rolls around, of course she's weaker -- she's at maybe 450 while they've got Sam and Juggernaut at 550.

If Magik was as strong as Juggernaut or Polaris, players would be forced to invest, or they'd be locked out of the game during her boost week (try using someone besides Juggernaut or Polaris when they're boosted, and see how far you get!).

Do you really think synergy is worth 200 levels, though? 400 levels? Should a strong synergy team of 450s beat a weaker synergy team of 672s + a 600 3->5 essential character?

What is the point of levelling up characters if those levels are meaningless?

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:

@entrailbucket said:

@WhiteBomber said:
Scofie knows what's up. If you know it's a hard counter to your team, all you have to do in this instance was swap one person to someone who counters them back.

I just pushed my 25 wins in the Toni ho event and saw different teams all the way to over 700 points. If anything, the main recurring factor was Magik was on the majority of those teams (and she is a jerk with Toni). So, either they need to fix everyone else's MMR, or people are being dramatic.

...25 wins/700 points. We are not playing the same game.

What game are you playing then? Is the frustration now that this is only a problem after X amount of wins and X amount of points?

You are beyond casual. I've been "retired" from PvP for like 6 years and I play at minimum twice as much as you do and frequently 4-6x as much. Serious PvP players are playing significantly more than me.

If my goal was to play for 15 minutes or whatever like you, I could also skip all the good teams and just bash a few seals and call it a day.

WhiteBomber

(try using someone besides Juggernaut or Polaris when they're boosted, and see how far you get!).

C'mon... c'mon.. really? You will get as high as you want to get assuming you have other decent characters. OR, until you hit a ceiling where I'm told alliance illuminati will continue to beat you down, which at that point, your team doesn't matter.