Regarding Ascended characters and retro rewards

Karass

hi guys,

I have a question regarding retroactive covers and shards awarded for new 5* and their distribution once a 4* is ascended...

Does the game count the ascended as a feeder or is ascending a big fat mistake? I don't think I got to experience that yet, so hopefully you guys can answer this before I turn my roster into anything but a 4* farm.

Any answer appreciated

ThaRoadWarrior

At this moment, if you are primarily interested in retro rewards, ascension is kind of a mistake. The way they have decided to do this is to bake the retro rewards temporarily into the champion rewards of the ascended character for the first 7 days after whatever that change is goes live, then they revert to the standard rewards. If you have a 450 minimum ascended character, you get no retro rewards at all. Going for a max-max ascension path, and pulling the trigger on ascension during that first week is going to get you the most possible covers, but you have absolutely no way to know when or even if that change will ever come.

that being said, ascended characters are more often than not mechanically way better than un-ascended, particularly when boosted, so I just ascend mine when they're eligible, feel sad for a short time if i miss out on something, and otherwise move on with my life. i currently have 56 ascended 4-to-5 characters and i use a lot of them all the time.

bluewolf

You get retro covers only for ascended characters who, per my understanding, you ascended within 7 days of the release of the new character they feed, and you only get them for 7 days after that (so you can't keep adding covers forever and keep getting more feeder covers).

All other ascended characters default to the non-feeder reward schedule. If you ascend too early you will get nothing. You can of course get covers before ascending once they are feeders.

There is a lot of debate around when to ascend people and things. One player did the math on rewards and decided it was never worth ascending most 4s as your return per cover was better if you just left them as base 4s.

If you'll use the character in your play then it's worth it regardless of who they do or don't feed, imo.

Also note that in many cases they make characters that feed no one into feeders for the new character, so if you ascend people who already feed someone it's likely you'll not run into an issue of missing out.

Also the feeder output is not that great, especially in our hyper-diluted era of the game. So holding onto 4s over ascending for that purpose is... I mean it's fine but you will probably get far more covers for a Latest 5 from just pulls than you'll ever get from their feeder. There are 150 4s so if you pulled enough LTs to get one cover for each one (with even distribution) just once you'd also get 26-27 covers for the 3 5s in Latests, or you'd basically be over halfway to finishing them to 13 covers. Now, if you focused and all that you could get more covers for the feeder from shards which probably results in like 8-10 all told from those 150 pulls.

TLDR: the only meaningful way to make progress on a specific character is to favorite them. Feeding are nice and helpful early as you seek to roster one cover for various low-priority characters but is not a reason to delay ascending someone you will use.

The safe play is don't ascend anyone until they will materially impact your game, and not anyone who doesn't already feed someone, but odds are if you are in the "ascend 4s" phase of your roster you can easily cover and champ all new 5s and whatever covers you miss out on from ascension (basically max of 12 from base plus the double dip you might get)

BriMan2222

@bluewolf said:
You get retro covers only for ascended characters who, per my understanding, you ascended within 7 days of the release of the new character they feed, and you only get them for 7 days after that (so you can't keep adding covers forever and keep getting more feeder covers).

I ascended Nova as soon as he was put into the list of characters that can be ascended and I ascended Wiccan months ago. I got retro rewards for both of them. The same for a bunch of other characters too, so you don't have to have ascended them within 7 days of the new characters release.

You just have to make sure you do it before the 7 day period of updated rewards runs out.

ThaRoadWarrior

As long as they are at whatever level past 450 they need to be to give champ rewards, you will get them in that first 7 days. But if you have no champ levels, you get no retro rewards.

GrimSkald

@bluewolf said:
You get retro covers only for ascended characters who, per my understanding, you ascended within 7 days of the release of the new character they feed, and you only get them for 7 days after that (so you can't keep adding covers forever and keep getting more feeder covers).

All other ascended characters default to the non-feeder reward schedule. If you ascend too early you will get nothing. You can of course get covers before ascending once they are feeders.

There is a lot of debate around when to ascend people and things. One player did the math on rewards and decided it was never worth ascending most 4s as your return per cover was better if you just left them as base 4s.

If you'll use the character in your play then it's worth it regardless of who they do or don't feed, imo.

That was probably me, and that wasn't quite what I said. I compared the rewards of the 4★ per level, and how they matched up to the 5★ rewards at a rate of 4:1. To be honest, 4★ rewards (at 1:1) are much better. This means that a) I only ascend Max:Max for 4★ and b) unless I'm going to use the 4|5★ I ascend the pair, re-roster the 4★ and level that. In general about half of my ascended 4★s have dupes, half don't. TBH that's probably optimistic -- I probably won't use, say, the Winter Soldier, but what the hey. I'm also flush with Roster slots due to those vaults earlier this year, so hp is another metric in that decision.

As you say, if you're going to use the character (cough, cough, Juggernaut,) then ascending is a no-brainer. I still wouldn't ascend them before max-max, the rewards are just too good, but you definitely want to ascend.

Also note that in many cases they make characters that feed no one into feeders for the new character, so if you ascend people who already feed someone it's likely you'll not run into an issue of missing out.

Also the feeder output is not that great, especially in our hyper-diluted era of the game. So holding onto 4s over ascending for that purpose is... I mean it's fine but you will probably get far more covers for a Latest 5 from just pulls than you'll ever get from their feeder. There are 150 4s so if you pulled enough LTs to get one cover for each one (with even distribution) just once you'd also get 26-27 covers for the 3 5s in Latests, or you'd basically be over halfway to finishing them to 13 covers. Now, if you focused and all that you could get more covers for the feeder from shards which probably results in like 8-10 all told from those 150 pulls.

TLDR: the only meaningful way to make progress on a specific character is to favorite them. Feeding are nice and helpful early as you seek to roster one cover for various low-priority characters but is not a reason to delay ascending someone you will use.

The safe play is don't ascend anyone until they will materially impact your game, and not anyone who doesn't already feed someone, but odds are if you are in the "ascend 4s" phase of your roster you can easily cover and champ all new 5s and whatever covers you miss out on from ascension (basically max of 12 from base plus the double dip you might get)

While I agree with you, I'd say the rewards from getting resources from your Ascended 4|5s outweigh the chance that one day, far down the line, you'll be able to double-dip. 12 covers is a lot, and being able to get 12 extra covers is amazing, but for every random character the chance that this particular one will become a feeder in the future is pretty low. I'm eying my Mockingbird right now, for example. I just maxed out my second 370 and I'm leaving them seperate, but as soon as I pull another cover I'll probably pull the trigger and ascend her. Bobbi is connected to a lot of of the Marvel Universe, so she's moderately likely to feed someone, but still, just how long do I want to wait? I'll get 12 covers for whomever at least, and that's enough -- "double dipping" is icing on the cake.

I'll probably wait to see who the next 3|5★ is, then pull the trigger.

ThaRoadWarrior

Don't forget that we've seen this with characters who already had feeders get them changed as well, so nobody is really "safe" ever. Just make whatever choice you want for your roster.

St_Bernadus

If the dupe is 290 you should be safe. Get them to 300 for the reward there might be optimal (assuming you do not want to wait till maxed).

JoeHandle

Don't cheat yourself in the actual over things that might come to pass; where would it end? the things that might happen are infinate.

GrimSkald

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Don't forget that we've seen this with characters who already had feeders get them changed as well, so nobody is really "safe" ever. Just make whatever choice you want for your roster.

Here's the thing, though, I'd say it's "safe enough." If it was a matter of "You won't get any covers at all," I'd argue against ascending 4★s that you're not going to use, but so long as you level your second 4★ to 370, you do get 12 covers, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Sure, getting 12 more is better, but I'd argue that it's not worth giving up the rewards you get from ascending, not to mention getting another 5★ to play with and absolutely curb stomp the node whenever they're featured, particularly in the "Behemoth Burrito."

So yes, Ascending 370:370 is "safe." You'll get 12 rewards at least. Theoretically, 370:302ish is safe since you'll get back what you put into them, but see my argument above that unless you really want to use the 4|5, it's better off just to wait.

ThaRoadWarrior

@GrimSkald said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Don't forget that we've seen this with characters who already had feeders get them changed as well, so nobody is really "safe" ever. Just make whatever choice you want for your roster.

Here's the thing, though, I'd say it's "safe enough." If it was a matter of "You won't get any covers at all," I'd argue against ascending 4★s that you're not going to use, but you do get 12 covers, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Sure, getting 12 more is better, but I'd argue that it's not worth giving up the rewards you get from ascending, not to mention getting another 5★ to play with and absolutely curb stomp the node whenever they're featured, particularly in the "Behemoth Burrito."

And Ascending 370:370 is "safe." You'll get 12 rewards at least. Theoretically, 370:302ish is safe since you'll get back what you put into them, but see my argument above that unless you really want to use the 4|5, it's better off just to wait.

Scroll up and see that I have ascended ~53 or so 4* characters regardless of feeder status. I'm just pointing out we all did get burned by somebody not too long ago that had a feeder before, and they changed it at some point. So nothing is safe, and therefore you should just do what's going to make you happy. I choose to early ascend.

I really don't know why the current implementation is the current implementation - if you have an ascended 4* on roster the minimum requirement was a level 370 4* so it seems like you should just get the 6 covers for that if it's too difficult to figure out the merged character's level.

AdeptusRevolt

@Wolvie171 posted this in another thread:

entrailbucket

A couple of points I always make in these threads:

Sometimes the ascended character is significantly better than the character they feed, so if you're holding off on ascending to get feeder rewards, you're doing it backwards from an optimization perspective.

Also, the "I'm only going to ascend characters I'll actually use" position, which seems simple, often isn't. It can be really hard to determine who you'll actually use until you get them into a position to be used. The list of characters "worth" ascending is WAY, WAY longer than just Polaris, Juggernaut, etc.

WhiteBomber

So I just got my Coulson dupe to 13 covers, I will for sure go to 14 for the LL, BUT since he doesn't have a feeder does it make sense to wait until 378 / 390 or whatever the optimal rewards were? Lord knows my ascension finger is already hovering since it's Coulson.

entrailbucket

@WhiteBomber said:
So I just got my Coulson dupe to 13 covers, I will for sure go to 14 for the LL, BUT since he doesn't have a feeder does it make sense to wait until 378 / 390 or whatever the optimal rewards were? Lord knows my ascension finger is already hovering since it's Coulson.

I cant speak to rewards, but he was my first (and currently only) 4* to 550. He's insanely powerful -- with enough levels you don't even have to do CD combo nonsense to win. Just bring cheap powers, and the CDs add 50k to everything you cast.

ThaRoadWarrior

I’d say it doesn’t take much longer to get your dupe to 274 so you get the LL token on both ends of the equation, but Coulson is one of the most significant upgrades for sure.

GrimSkald

@WhiteBomber said:
So I just got my Coulson dupe to 13 covers, I will for sure go to 14 for the LL, BUT since he doesn't have a feeder does it make sense to wait until 378 / 390 or whatever the optimal rewards were? Lord knows my ascension finger is already hovering since it's Coulson.

Good question. Honestly, if you are planning on ascending him to 450 and using him immediately, I'd probably go for it. Otherwise in your position I'd probably favorite him and ascend him when I decide to use him of when the dupe hits 370, whichever comes first. Unless you're using him, you may as well reap the 4★ rewards.

Mine is in the mid-480s, I have not created a duplicate Coulson, he is very good. As others say, even non-boosted his CDs do enough damage that if you pair him with someone with cheap powers he'll generate a lot of damage.

entrailbucket

What are some reasons you wouldn't use a powerful character like Coulson after you had him ascended?

(Actually asking, not trolling -- I'm interested in people's thoughts in this vein)

ThaRoadWarrior

Personal Inertia?

Grizwald

@entrailbucket said:
What are some reasons you wouldn't use a powerful character like Coulson after you had him ascended?

(Actually asking, not trolling -- I'm interested in people's thoughts in this vein)

Don't have the right characters to make him effective. Coulson added to my ascended Juggs and 5* Omega team isn't going to do a ton.
Or a perception that he's not a fast as another team I use.

WhiteBomber

I personally plan on using the hell out of him. I am however not in dire need of him and more importantly, I am at a place in my roster where the rewards are actually needed. So I was initially going to ascend him with hist dupe at champion +1 for the LL, but if I only need to wait 8 more levels for significant rewards when they change his feeder, I can hold off.

I just don't fully know what the difference is if I ascend him with my dupe at 271 vs 278 etc., especially since he doesn't have a feeder.