Known Issue: A Timeless Voyage

ArielSira

I agree with Machine; a bad weekend but an awesome developer

Janosik

@Machine said:

@ChewableTrash said:

However, I don't agree with your general remarks here. Webcore have been the best developers this game has seen since its inception.

Not sure I agree with this. I'll go as far as to say that Webcore are better than late-stage Oktagon.

There's been a couple of big QoL improvements altho arguably not the biggest and most requested one (improved animation speed!)

The new deckbuilding filers are nice and I use those a fair bit (altho the deckbuilder itself is still pretty unwieldly)

Giving all charges up front in events is a nice big QoL improvement but for me that's been balanced out by the large number of coalition events they've run which have had problems. I think their record on running coalition events is worse than Oktagon's, personally.

It also doesn't feel to me like there are any less bugs in the game now than a year ago; Oktagon left a large backlog of bugs for Webcore, and that's on Oktagon, but Webcore introduce a large number of new bugs with each set release.

One thing Webcore seems to do better than Oktagon is give us more top tier Standard cards with each new set. Sure, quite a lot of those cards are way above the curve and might be too good and in need of a nerf (paging Ghalta) but that's a better problem to be having than too many low power cards. I just wish Webcore were better at designing 'evergreen' mechanics, their design of new keyworded mechanics has been shockingly bad.

(Also I wish they'd stop incorrectly using the term 'evergreen', which, in paper MTG, means 'a keyworded mechanic which is not set restricted and might appear in any set' and not 'any keyworded mechanic'. That's Oktagon's fault.)

Janosik

@BongoTheGrey said:

@Janosik said:
I expect they will give us some compensation and that will magically repair all damage done to the game's reputation over this nightmare of a weekend.

I honestly don't care at all about any kind of compensation. I just want them to listen to the community once and for all and stop scheduling Legacy coalition events.

But since they use the player's feedback as toilet paper, I highly doubt that it will happen

Perhaps one concrete thing they might do as compensation for this weekend might be to announce that ATV will no longer run as a coalition event in the future. I wouldn't mind seeing it as a weekday event that I can safely ignore, or play with a random deck for fun.

BongoTheGrey

I agree. Players have been begging for them to stop scheduling Legacy coalition events. Not to delete Legacy events. They can just turn every Legacy coalition event into a regular solo event and run it whenever they want. Those that want to play them can join and those that want to ignore them can just go on with their lives

Fireguy

Everybody, lets breath and relax, it's over and you're still alive. It's a game. And behind this game are real people who provide us with this game that we typically enjoy. People make mistakes. In times like these we often focus on the big mistake that people make and we forget about all that they do correctly. Ya this weekend was a bit crazy, ya I would rather not experience this again, but you know what, I'm okay, my account is okay, and hopefully Webcore is okay after we've all stuck knives in them. Everything great in life was achieved through difficult circumstances. If you want this game to be great it's going to go through a few issues from time to time. Otherwise, Webcore and past developers could just sit back, take it easy and give us a boring lame game. Let's give them credit for the amazing work they've done since taking over.

Webcore, you're doing great, keep up the focus on improving and creating a great game. You've already done in, now keep it going. Lastly though, ATV is a very controversial and well, hated event generally. Might be best to shelf that one for good. But the HxB issues? You're human, we get it, thanks for tightening things up in the future. You've got a loyal fan base and I'm sure we'll all here to stay still.

madwren

@Fireguy said:

If you want this game to be great it's going to go through a few issues from time to time.

While I empathize with your intent, part of the playerbase frustration has been that the game has had issues for (checks notes) eight years. They're starving and desperate.

I'm personally far more pleased than disappointed with Webcore, but the grace period for "not repeating mistakes" has ended.

ChewableTrash

@Machine said:

@ChewableTrash said:
More bugs from BUGCORE. Hands down some of the most incompetent devs/support in any game. Your incompetence will be the death of this game. I went from being hardcore for this game, even writing a guide to help newcomers, recruited almost 10 people to your game, and now I’m barely playing because of the plethora of bugs and clear lack of competence.

This weekend was an absolute disaster, true.

However, I don't agree with your general remarks here. Webcore have been the best developers this game has seen since its inception. They fixed a lot of stuff Oktagon was unable to. They are quick on releasing notes and fixing tier 1 bugs. They try to keep in touch with the player base and the list goes on.

I wasn’t around for Oktagon, I’m relatively “new” and this is solely based on my terrible experiences with Bugcore. This is MY OPINION. You can disagree all you want and I respect that but don’t dismiss my opinion just because you think otherwise. Im not here to debate MY OPINION, based on MY EXPERIENCE, with you. Let’s just leave it at that. Have a good one, Machine.

Sarah

@ChewableTrash its is heartbreaking to see you so upset because it seems like just yesterday you were so excited about the game. Feel your feels and don’t apologize for them. There were a lot of poor choices this weekend but I doubt any of them were yours.

It was a poor choice to not test the event first. It was an even worse choice to try and fix things on the fly. It’s frustrating to see so many past mistakes repeated by the new team. We were all so very hopeful… well, as hopeful as a bunch of salty magic players can be.

I thought the apology was nice enough, even if it overlooked a key element. I’m sure that the compensation will be appreciated by the players who are not already at the top of the rewards ladder.

In the future, when things go a bit awry as they inevitably will, I hope to see you leave things as they are with an in-game announcement and some resources—you’d be surprised at how many of us can be bribed—and an “we’re going to figure out what went wrong and do better next week!”

ChewableTrash

@Sarah said:
@ChewableTrash its is heartbreaking to see you so upset because it seems like just yesterday you were so excited about the game. Feel your feels and don’t apologize for them. There were a lot of poor choices this weekend but I doubt any of them were yours.

It was a poor choice to not test the event first. It was an even worse choice to try and fix things on the fly. It’s frustrating to see so many past mistakes repeated by the new team. We were all so very hopeful… well, as hopeful as a bunch of salty magic players can be.

I thought the apology was nice enough, even if it overlooked a key element. I’m sure that the compensation will be appreciated by the players who are not already at the top of the rewards ladder.

In the future, when things go a bit awry as they inevitably will, I hope to see you leave things as they are with an in-game announcement and some resources—you’d be surprised at how many of us can be bribed—and an “we’re going to figure out what went wrong and do better next week!”

Thanks for the kind words, Sarah. It saddens me that my view has become so very… different than when I first started. I think the strong feelings stem from a sense of nostalgia MTG brings and that this game, if done correctly, has SOOOO much potential. It’s sad that this potential isn’t being tapped into quick enough.

This forum is a prime example of outdated tactics and visibility. They could easily open a discord, with minimal effort/staff, to help direct new players and bring together the vets that may not even know there is a community ( an outstanding one, at that) around this.

My patience is no more with Bugcore, sadly. Their grace period of getting their **** together has long gone. They keep repeating the same mistakes and why? It’s because they lack any form of standards. Usually people learn from their mistakes but not here, which is frustrating at times.

Now I’m forever grateful for what they are doing. From what I hear, Bugcore is much better than Oktagon and I sympathize with them for inherited spaghetti code and the plethora of existing bugs.

I just had too many bad encounters in this game so far. I went hard in the game when I started, ask most vets, I grew fast.. I think.

I even took my time to write up a guide, which sadly got overlooked, which when I gave to newer players, gave me many thanks for helping overcome that learning curve.

Bugcore needs to listen more to its community… I hope they start learning from their mistakes because the patterns just keep happening, this is how games die…

NickBKK

We can all chill out now. All is forgiven! We got 5000 runes for a compensation.

Sarah

@NickBKK said:
We can all chill out now. All is forgiven! We got 5000 runes for a compensation.

See?!? We can absolutely be bribed.

gozmaster

@ChewableTrash said:
More bugs from BUGCORE. Hands down some of the most incompetent devs/support in any game. Your incompetence will be the death of this game. I went from being hardcore for this game, even writing a guide to help newcomers, recruited almost 10 people to your game, and now I’m barely playing because of the plethora of bugs and clear lack of competence.

lol Hey CT, hope you're well... And if you think this is bad, oh man, you should have seen Okty. lol

We'll be fine, we'll lose players over this, but I've seen a pretty big influx of new/returning players than in the last couple of years.

Again, this is nothing compared to how bad okty ran things, and the game survived just fine then. (Well, ish lol)

I'll say this weekend aside, and massive amounts of bugs in the last 2 sets (Cmon WC, I'm on your side lol) their response times, communication and improvements have been COMPLETE Upgrades to the previous dev team.

So Yeah. We'll get through this fine.

Good to see you on the threads FYI.

gozmaster

@Sarah said:

@Janosik said:

>

Any last-minute fix you attempt for coalition events will create worse problems

Especially when the changes are announced on private servers like [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] before the official announcement in game or on the forum. The hilarious thing is that the last time this happened (during the OG Harvesttide) the information given by the devs was dead wrong and they had no idea what was actually going on with the events and that seems to have happened again.

The all-time leaderboards are a sham and there can be no meaningful competition when the game developers share information with their favorite players—regardless of the quality of that information or it’s actual outcome.

It breaks the illusion of fairness entirely.

We've had extensive conversations about this is Discord.

Valid concern, and I hear where you're coming from, but that isn't the full story, here's actually what happened....

I'm one of the redacted names in Sarah's post (respect Sarah , She's a boss in her alliance, very knowledgeable.)

However the actual timeline is this...

1. Issue with ATV charges.

2. I was alerted in discord by my nerds, and I passed the info on the the WC team as a heads up. (It was late Friday @7:13 PM PST) And acknowledged the heads up.

3. We get an update, and let us know they were adding a second event for the mixup (thinking the 4 charges were all that would load in ATV) but here's what isn't mentioned by those upset...

   My Announcement was after the event was already added to the app

So we did NOT Get the info before anyone else could clearly see there was another event in the game. They ONLY told us as they were writing the update here on the forum, to help spread the word in the servers to help get clarity after hours to everyone. (Again hindsight)

4. I post in my group at 8:01 PM PST as Lu is writing this thread that hits at 8:08 PST. So, 7 minutes prior to the official forum announcement

5. Post went live here a couple minutes later....... And..... people do the math thinking we knew well in advance of anyone else in the game, giving us an unfair advantage (i guess?)

If we had this information days in advance. Yeah I completely get that. But 7 minutes, and only after the event was added into the app? That's a stretch for me.

Now , WC normally DON"'t share anything with us in advance (outside of walkers to review and exclusive cards to make hype vids for) which we are strictly not allowed to use in PVP events (outside of training grounds) or coalition events. they are pretty tight on what and where we can use our early access stuff.

Now, Is this a bad look, yeah, I can see how some may think it that way.

Was it done to hurt or in anyway "cheat" players out of prizes or points?

Cmon man.

It's a game bug.

And they were trying to get the info out to us through all channels and as quickly as possible.

So, I'll let you all draw your own conclusions, but I'll just have to tell you from my experience with working with WC, their people and how they've handled things for my eye... (As biased as some will say my eye is)

...They are the best devs we've ever had. Not even debatable.

Perfect? Oh god no lol, but bless their hearts. They do actually care about this game and have been doing MASSIVE stuff to improve it.

I know for some, no matter what they do or what I say, it won't be good enough, and they'll hate on WC no matter what, that's just their nature. Ok. I guess.

But for all else here, (reading the drama lol) who've been around as long (longer) as I have.

Admit it. These guys are doing a really good job and hopefully getting better.

Or you can hate. Cool. Whatever brings you joy.

You play the game how you want.

I just want those folks reading all of these to know, that there was absolutely no ill intent and anything claiming otherwise, is... not accurate IMO

The counter argument that will be used here...

BUT YOU GET INFO THAT IS IN ADVANCE OF OTHER PLAYERS AND THAT ISN'T FAIR. The POTENTIAL To be Abused Is REAL!!!!

Yeah I hear the concern, but it's not real frankly.

We actually don't get info early of public releases, again, outside of this issue and walkers/exclusives as I mentioned above.

They have been very diligent in the way they've handled info and what they share with the CCs but again...

People will believe what they want to.

I'mma just make my little fart-noise videos. And sip my tea. Hopefull y make some people laugh.

But no matter what, I adore you nerds.

All the best.

GM

ChewableTrash

@gozmaster said:

@ChewableTrash said:
More bugs from BUGCORE. Hands down some of the most incompetent devs/support in any game. Your incompetence will be the death of this game. I went from being hardcore for this game, even writing a guide to help newcomers, recruited almost 10 people to your game, and now I’m barely playing because of the plethora of bugs and clear lack of competence.

lol Hey CT, hope you're well... And if you think this is bad, oh man, you should have seen Okty. lol

We'll be fine, we'll lose players over this, but I've seen a pretty big influx of new/returning players than in the last couple of years.

Again, this is nothing compared to how bad okty ran things, and the game survived just fine then. (Well, ish lol)

I'll say this weekend aside, and massive amounts of bugs in the last 2 sets (Cmon WC, I'm on your side lol) their response times, communication and improvements have been COMPLETE Upgrades to the previous
Good to see you on the threads FYI.

This is just solely my experience with Bugcore. I have almost no experience with Oktagon to compare to. So, again, MY EXPERIENCE isn’t going to be the same as someone to got to see Oktagon and Bugcore.

Also, support has been absolute garbage for responses in the beginning. Being told they won’t look into things because it’s too hard or not enough people are reporting it, yet I’ve given them step by step on how to recreate it, yeah… that’s not professional. So I gave up being professional with them and told them exactly how I felt.

Regardless of how Oktagon WAS, they are still repeating mistakes because (my opinion again) they lack some serious standards with rolling things out. They need a way to test these things before implementing them. You can tell they don’t. Example: Soul Partition was “fixed” but it wasn’t and if they played just ONE game, it was obvious.

I’m sorry but they need to step up their game.. whether it’s fixing stuff faster or implementing some standards to cut down on bugs.

I also don’t get why they won’t open a discord. Even if it’s just to have the community congregate and socialize… they don’t need official support set up in there, ot just yet.

All this comes from a place of love, as hard as it seems, because this game is great and taps into one of the best card games to ever exist.

Nice hearing from you GOZ.. maybe we can chat in the future but for now… I needed to step away after my last message to you.

Sarah

Hey, I’m really glad that we got an opportunity to re-affirm with a new dev team that the best practice for announcing unexpected changes to coalition events is; official announcement first and then enlisting help spreading the message.

Some people heard my concern as “webcore shouldn’t talk to CCs about new stuff at all” which couldn’t be further from the truth. I think that CCs should get access to new cards and PWs so they can tell us how awesome they are… although I’m not certain that they should be able to use them in the wild like in Training Grounds. I will never understand why there isn’t a test server.

I think it’s fair that people are frustrated to have the same mistakes repeated by the new team.

I think it’s also important to remember that content creators are not community managers and should not be expected to fill that role. I’m sure that @gozmaster will be relieved to return to what he’s good at; making videos.

gozmaster

Nice hearing from you GOZ.. maybe we can chat in the future but for now… I needed to step away after my last message to you.

@ChewableTrash , Hey lady , meant to reply way earlier but have been jammed...

I re read the thread, and to be clear, what your feeling is 100% valid, and of course, I'm not in any way trying to tell you how to feel. You know my stance on that ...

...My only point was that as bad as it's gotten (And seems to have gotten worse since my last post, sheesh) apparently we MTGPQ fans are just suckers for an abusive relationship.

And man, dude.... Since my last post, it seems to have gotten EVEN BUGGIER, just had 3 soft locks on games not running any of the usual suspects for freezes.

And longer term players (myself included) are having to take a step back because we can't even get through our daily events right now.

man... Something HAS to give, and I'm hopeful we'll get an answer soon addressing this all, (Hopefully before this next event)

And Bro... CT... My dude... Hope you know, I adore you.

I'm here whenever you're ready to chat.

and Hope IRL is treating you like royalty.

Till then...

All the best.

gozmaster

@Sarah said:

I think it’s also important to remember that content creators are not community managers and should not be expected to fill that role. I’m sure that @gozmaster will be relieved to return to what he’s good at; making videos.

Wait, so you're telling me I'm a terrible community manager?

well...

That stings a little.

Sarah

@gozmaster said:

Wait, so you're telling me I'm a terrible community manager?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. You have allowed multiple people to spew hateful, misogynistic insults at me and despite me clearly telling you that it was hurtful and I was not “in on the joke” you continually justified that behavior by dismissing me with “I thought you were tough.”

We have discussed this extensively in the past and if you find my view surprising in any way it can only be because you simply do not take what I say seriously.

While I still direct new players to your YouTube channel, I no longer direct them to your server because the behavior that I’ve seen towards myself and other female players is absolutely unacceptable.