How has Ascension affected the meta?

Borstock

@JoeHandle said:

@Borstock said:
The top of Simulator I see is basically all Dr. Thor + Polaris + Chasm.

Chasm, OR, Colossus handles these easily. Boring but repeatable.

They don't when the enemy Chasm and Dr. Thor are 550s and Polaris is in the 475 range.

GrimSkald

@JoeHandle said:

@Borstock said:
The top of Simulator I see is basically all Dr. Thor + Polaris + Chasm.

Chasm, OR, Colossus handles these easily. Boring but repeatable.

I run a lot of MThor/Riri/someone else in SIM, and that deals well with any Polaris team other than BRB or maybe GRocket. Polaris just won't get those tiles out once you flood the board with charged tiles, and CDs (such as Riri's or OR's,) count against as a special tile so she won't put out a strike herself.

Against BRB/Polaris/MThor you need Chasm to stop Bill's protection tiles.

But anyway, I don't see a lot of Ascended 4★s in PVP yet. Nor 1★ other than Juggs for that matter. In general each tier has more diverse and useful powers than the one below it, so that's not terribly surprising. At some point we'll see more, I think, but we haven't hit that point yet and in general there's usually a better boosted 5★ option. I think the situation will develop more, and I do think that play will get more diverse, but PVP at least is still similar with a few invaders from other tiers.

entrailbucket

@Borstock said:

@JoeHandle said:

@Borstock said:
The top of Simulator I see is basically all Dr. Thor + Polaris + Chasm.

Chasm, OR, Colossus handles these easily. Boring but repeatable.

They don't when the enemy Chasm and Dr. Thor are 550s and Polaris is in the 475 range.

I actually started playing sim again to farm 1* and 2* covers. Everybody seems to be running the same few obnoxious troll teams, like always.

I just cheese everything with Kang/Coulson/anybody with a cheap power. Riri works very well for this, since she has a cheap AoE stun.

fight4thedream

Yes, we are still in the preliminary stages of the 4* Ascension invasion so it will be quite some time before the dust settles and we can get a better picture of what teams will eventually rise to the top. It will be interesting to see which characters players chase in their quest for fun, convenience and/or leader board domination.

I know 4* Jugs seems to be a favorite in the preliminary rounds. I myself am currently focused on Rocket and Groot. Beyond Thanos and Magik, the 3* remains a question mark for me now. And let's not forget they are still releasing characters in the 3* and 4* tier so there's potential there.

I do think it's clear the lower tiers are hitting harder than the 5* crowd when they have reached 5* Unlimited Ascension level and am curious if the dev team is ok with this or this is something they see as issue that needs to be addressed. Perhaps a question for the next Q & A.

Before it used to be you would want your favorite character to be a 5* but under this new system it might be better to hope they are a 4*.

Additionally, there has been a noticeable uptick in players in LR now so at the very least the dev team has certainly increased user engagement. It is nice to see all covers contributing to overall roster strength.

Daredevil217

I haven’t really seen an impact on the meta yet tbh. My queues are all Colossus, Omega, Chasm, weekly boosted, etc. sometimes the occasional glass cannon (Shang/Jane/Polaris) or the occasional counter left out (Electro/Kittens) probably to fight said Omega Red. I don’t really see 4*s running stuff. So, natural fives with the occasional Polaris (and that’s mostly sim).

Reason? It’s only the 10+ year players/high spenders that are getting these characters high level ascended in a reasonable length of time. The whole “chase everyone”, “everyone is good!” (Not true lol), “don’t go all in” stuff only works if you have the massive resources to do so. Otherwise if you didn’t favorite anyone you’d never 550 anyone. Unless you plan to play for literal years at lower levels and never break into the upper echelon. While there are MANY viable teams/options now, the reality is the natural 5s are just easier to get due to 1:7 odds when featured in stores, and the 1 cover = 1 level versus 4s having 100s of characters diluting the pool, 4s not really getting featured other then occasional increased odds for a bunch (so still diluted) and the crazy 4:1 cover:level ratio.

So it stands to reason that natural fives will still be most of what you encounter when playing PvP because while maybe not as strong as the 4s at the same level, they don’t take years to obtain.

bluewolf

LR engagement is up because it’s one of the only ways for high end players to increase their rate of acquisition of 1* covers - playing pvp more, and the seeds spawn every 2 hours.

1s are now pretty valuable, especially if people bought the 1-5s.

Bowgentle

@Daredevil217 said:
I haven’t really seen an impact on the meta yet tbh. My queues are all Colossus, Omega, Chasm, weekly boosted, etc. sometimes the occasional glass cannon (Shang/Jane/Polaris) or the occasional counter left out (Electro/Kittens) probably to fight said Omega Red. I don’t really see 4*s running stuff. So, natural fives with the occasional Polaris (and that’s mostly sim).

Reason? It’s only the 10+ year players/high spenders that are getting these characters high level ascended in a reasonable length of time. The whole “chase everyone”, “everyone is good!” (Not true lol), “don’t go all in” stuff only works if you have the massive resources to do so. Otherwise if you didn’t favorite anyone you’d never 550 anyone. Unless you plan to play for literal years at lower levels and never break into the upper echelon. While there are MANY viable teams/options now, the reality is the natural 5s are just easier to get due to 1:7 odds when featured in stores, and the 1 cover = 1 level versus 4s having 100s of characters diluting the pool, 4s not really getting featured other then occasional increased odds for a bunch (so still diluted) and the crazy 4:1 cover:level ratio.

So it stands to reason that natural fives will still be most of what you encounter when playing PvP because while maybe not as strong as the 4s at the same level, they don’t take years to obtain.

Bucket telling you that everyone can do what he does, citing the usual two forum examples incoming.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:

@Daredevil217 said:
I haven’t really seen an impact on the meta yet tbh. My queues are all Colossus, Omega, Chasm, weekly boosted, etc. sometimes the occasional glass cannon (Shang/Jane/Polaris) or the occasional counter left out (Electro/Kittens) probably to fight said Omega Red. I don’t really see 4*s running stuff. So, natural fives with the occasional Polaris (and that’s mostly sim).

Reason? It’s only the 10+ year players/high spenders that are getting these characters high level ascended in a reasonable length of time. The whole “chase everyone”, “everyone is good!” (Not true lol), “don’t go all in” stuff only works if you have the massive resources to do so. Otherwise if you didn’t favorite anyone you’d never 550 anyone. Unless you plan to play for literal years at lower levels and never break into the upper echelon. While there are MANY viable teams/options now, the reality is the natural 5s are just easier to get due to 1:7 odds when featured in stores, and the 1 cover = 1 level versus 4s having 100s of characters diluting the pool, 4s not really getting featured other then occasional increased odds for a bunch (so still diluted) and the crazy 4:1 cover:level ratio.

So it stands to reason that natural fives will still be most of what you encounter when playing PvP because while maybe not as strong as the 4s at the same level, they don’t take years to obtain.

Bucket telling you that everyone can do what he does, citing the usual two forum examples incoming.

I mean, citing the only two examples of people who've tried to do what I do and succeeded at it seems legit? Should I cite all the people who dismissed it as impossible without trying it?

Bowgentle

No, go ahead, debate with Daredevil.
I'll get the popcorn.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:
No, go ahead, debate with Daredevil.
I'll get the popcorn.

He's got me on ignore! Which is odd because he keeps replying to my posts indirectly, but whatever.

The debate's all been had already anyway. If you want to go all in, and you like using the same few characters for everything forever, do that. It's been proven to work since the beginning, and if your goal is to optimize your resources, that's how to do it.

If you want to spread out and use a ton of different characters, that method also works now. It's more fun for me, and maybe for some others. It also gives you insurance against metagame shifts (or nerfs). It might even be a competitive advantage in the very long term, but I don't think we know that yet.

Bowgentle

I get you, but it takes SO LONG to get 3* chars to a 5* level and then keep leveling them.
I'm not sure the game has the 7+ years left it will take to get a broad range of ascended 3s and 4s to say 520+, like 40-50 characters.
And that's with us being us, with many dual 370s to start with.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:
I get you, but it takes SO LONG to get 3* chars to a 5* level and then keep leveling them.
I'm not sure the game has the 7+ years left it will take to get a broad range of ascended 3s and 4s to say 520+, like 40-50 characters.
And that's with us being us, with many dual 370s to start with.

If you don't get them to 450 (or 470, or 490) you'll never get them to 520+. It's only impossible if you never start at all. And some of these guys are very usable at 470 (or even 450) when they're boosted.

If the game has a limited time left, would you rather spend that time hoarding and gaining no levels on anyone or incrementally grinding levels on everyone? There's no right answer anymore. The first one used to be the only way to do it, and now the second one is a viable option.

Bowgentle

I'm burning 5k CP on classics every 6 weeks or so because I find hoarding extremely boring, you're preaching to the choir here.
The boosted percentages for the 4s in classics help a lot.

entrailbucket

@Bowgentle said:
I'm burning 5k CP on classics every 6 weeks or so because I find hoarding extremely boring, you're preaching to the choir here.
The boosted percentages for the 4s in classics help a lot.

Good! If somebody wants to go all in, prefers to play with the same characters forever, prefers hoarding, that's GREAT. More power to them. Do what you like. If you don't like that, then do something else.

I get frustrated when people complain that the game lacks depth and variety, isn't fun, or that gameplay is a chore to be minimized. These things are only true if you're deliberately choosing not to take advantage of the alternate paths the devs have taken extreme pains to create. All the stuff you actually want is there, you're just choosing to ignore it!

entrailbucket

Also, it's hilarious that I've purposely done the least optimal thing forever -- I 550d Banner before his buff! -- and I can compete with the folks who've spent all their time theorizing and strategizing and optimizing and spreadsheeting.

It's like if someone spent all their time meticulously optimizing their stock portfolio, carefully arranging and balancing everything, staying on top of the news at all times...while I blindly "invested" in collectible spoons, and we both ended up retiring with the same amount of money.

All of your planning was meaningless! Life is random and unfair!

trenchdigger

Hmmm.... Based on that line of reasoning, don't bother getting an education or seeking to better yourself, just get a dead end job and buy a lottery ticket.

entrailbucket

@trenchdigger said:
Hmmm.... Based on that line of reasoning, don't bother getting an education or seeking to better yourself, just get a dead end job and buy a lottery ticket.

If someone does that and they end up in the same place as someone who, like, planned and generally tried...can you really say they did it the wrong way?

dianetics

I like to find teams that are not optimal but can clear cl10 challenge nodes. I find a new one every 3-4 months, when I move on I share them with the community.
Ascension gives me a wide net and now I have a huge bench that maybe I will not be able to work through.

Phumade

@entrailbucket said:
Also, it's hilarious that I've purposely done the least optimal thing forever -- I 550d Banner before his buff! -- and I can compete with the folks who've spent all their time theorizing and strategizing and optimizing and spreadsheeting.

It's like if someone spent all their time meticulously optimizing their stock portfolio, carefully arranging and balancing everything, staying on top of the news at all times...while I blindly "invested" in collectible spoons, and we both ended up retiring with the same amount of money.

All of your planning was meaningless! Life is random and unfair!

Hehe, The difference is your the only one from your cohort that survived long enough to say that their lottery ticket hit. There are many many others from the other cohort, that rode that slow and steady train to thicc rosters and fat hoards.

but to be sure a fresh player would build their roster in an entirely different fashion. Part of me does thinks it would be more fun and intellectually challenging to put my roster on passive play growth and put my mental focus on a fresh account.

Borstock

@entrailbucket said:

@trenchdigger said:
Hmmm.... Based on that line of reasoning, don't bother getting an education or seeking to better yourself, just get a dead end job and buy a lottery ticket.

If someone does that and they end up in the same place as someone who, like, planned and generally tried...can you really say they did it the wrong way?

Yes, you can. Statistics allow for outliers. An objectively wrong decision can yield a positive result.