Deploy the Gatewatch

Machine

I've vented my thoughts and possible solution here:
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/89415/adjusting-deploy-the-gatewatch-is-positive#latest

BongoTheGrey

@Metroplex78 said:
Please make DtG colourless and put it on sale so we can all 'Deploy' those stupid loop decks that are not fun.

Could you please explain how Deploy the Gatewatch fits into a loop deck? Which cards can loop with DtG?

Ampersand

@Metroplex78 Deploy doesn't loop! It doesn't draw cards and it doesn't convert gems. Just because you have issues with deckbuilding and sideboarding doesn't mean you get to fundamentally change the game. Loop combos have been part of MtG paper, the game this is derived from, for DECADES. There are MANY, MANY ways to stop loop decks. Experiment and see what works for you.

gozmaster

Bro, respect, but can you stop, lol, Aint nobody got time for that. It really sounds like you should be playing a different game with as much of this game you don't like.

I hear candy crush is nice this time of year

(And to be clear, Jokes homie, I'm just busting your chops lol)

@Metroplex78 said:
There should be limits to how big the creatures fetched and cast are and how many times per turn this can happen, this would end those stupid loop decks, which is legalized cheating.

Mainloop25

@Metroplex78 said:
There should be limits to how big the creatures fetched and cast are and how many times per turn this can happen, this would end those stupid loop decks, which is legalized cheating.

That is a very terrible idea

Mainloop25

@Metroplex78 said:
Please make DtG colourless and put it on sale so we can all 'Deploy' those stupid loop decks that are not fun.

Sounds like you know nothing about how Deploy actually works, so stop trying to jam everything into your silly little one-person crusade.

Mainloop25

@BongoTheGrey said:

@Metroplex78 said:
Please make DtG colourless and put it on sale so we can all 'Deploy' those stupid loop decks that are not fun.

Could you please explain how Deploy the Gatewatch fits into a loop deck? Which cards can loop with DtG?

They have to be trolling, I mean, no one's that dumb, right?

Not you Bongo, I mean him

gozmaster

It's a win con, not a loop engine piece.

BongoTheGrey

@Mainloop25 said:

@BongoTheGrey said:

@Metroplex78 said:
Please make DtG colourless and put it on sale so we can all 'Deploy' those stupid loop decks that are not fun.

Could you please explain how Deploy the Gatewatch fits into a loop deck? Which cards can loop with DtG?

They have to be trolling, I mean, no one's that dumb, right?

Not you Bongo, I mean him

In my mind they are definitely trolling. But I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and maybe they could explain to me like I'm 5 how to loop with DtG. I know that all kinds of great and creative minds have played this game since Deploy has been out and no one has found a way to loop with it.

But you never know! So I wanted to see if I could learn something new lol

Mainloop25

Oh you can get a pretty decent loop going with HUF Hellraiser and Atraxa, but it's not foolproof

Asylamb

To expand on Bongo's comment that the only "fix" Deploy the Gatewatch needs is the change of wording from "fetch <...> and place <...>" to "move into the battlefield", to avoid the misinterpretation.
The current wording mixes two types of interactions:
1) Library (draw vs fetch);
2) Battlefield (cast vs summon/create/return).

I'm not sure if it'd be of help to anyone, but I hope this will clear some things for the new team.

1) "Draw X" is putting up to X consecutive cards into your hand from the top of your library. There are many cards that interact with this action. Notably, WAR's Narset Vanguard prevents the extra draws, "Resourceful" ability encourages you to draw extra cards, and the Pauper Legacy staples like Wizard Class are built upon it.

"Fetch" is a targeted draw. It may be a specified number of cards from up to 4 cards (Sift), first X cards of a specified (sub)type or cost (Sylvan Messenger), or both (Gather the Pack). And it puts the fetched cards to your hand (with no mana, partial mana, or full mana).
I believe that returning cards from Graveyard/Exile to the hand is also considered "fetch".

These actions also trigger some abilities, but the number of cards that do interact is abysmally low. From the top of my head I can only think of WAR's Ashiok Vanguard, and the Vivien-themed Duels of Mana, where it's one of the objectives.

There are also some cards that draw cards under the disguise of "fetch", just so as not to trigger the "draw effects".
Example 1: Rashmi, Eternities Crafter. "When you cast a spell, support or a creature, fetch the next card in your library." It basically says: "When you cast a card, draw a card.", because what else can you cast? And the only reason to replace "draw a card" with "fetch the next card" is to avoid unnecessary interactions.
Example 2: Bring to Light. "Fetch the first card in your Library.". Again, not different from "Draw a card". In Paper this card works like a Tutor.
Example 3: Boon of Safety. "Fetch the first card in your Library.". In Paper this card has Scry which is similar to Surveil, but the unwanted cards go to the bottom of the library instead.
Example 4: One with the Multiverse. "You may fetch the first card in your Library." I believe this one is pretty close to its Paper counterpart in effect, but the wording itself is questionable.

2) "Cast" is playing a card after paying its mana value (even if the mana value = 0). It's possible to cast a card from the graveyard, if the card has the "Buried" ability and you pay the "Buried" cost. All other ways for permanents (non-spells in PQ terminology) to enter the play are summons and have nothing to do with 1). Summoned entities are neither drawn, nor fetched.

• Creating creature/support tokens (Pajami) -> summon;
• Moving a creature card from library directly into play (Deploy the Gatewatch) -> summon;
• Moving a support card from library directly into play (Whir of Invention) -> summon;
• Moving a creature from graveyard into play (Portal to Phyrexia) -> summon;
• Moving a support from graveyard into play (Starfield of Nyx) -> summon.

For comparison:

• Deploy the Gatewatch vs Sarkhan, Unbroken (PW's ultimate ability) -> fetch w/full mana + cast;
• Whir of Invention vs Danitha, Benalia's Hope (Equipment) -> fetch w/full mana + cast;
• Portal to Phyrexia vs Deadbridge Chant -> fetch w/full mana + cast;
• some cards can return cards from the graveyard with full mana and no restrictions, like Tamiyo, Collector of Tales Vanguard (-3 ability).

A bit of a separate category is playing cards from hand without paying the mana cost:

• Moving a creature from hand directly into play (Ilharg, the Raze-Boar) -> summon;
• Moving a support from hand directly into play (Stoneforge Mystic) -> summon.

TL;DR:
There should be exact terminology for every in-game action, but not only in a forum post, but also applied to the card texts. For example, every card that performs an action of putting one or more creatures from the library directly into the battlefield should describe that action in the same way.

P.S.: There is a similar problem with the token summoning cards. The earlier sets use "summon X [token name]", the later ones - "create X [token name] tokens".

@Magic:PQ Support Team

gozmaster

@Asylamb Is my Homeboy.

Great description.

totalsiege

@gozmaster said:
Save DEPLOY THE GATEWATCH!!!

Ok, Full Announcement Here: Nerf Deploy

Ok @Magic:PQ Support Team ... This is where we have to have a conversation...

Fix?

It was never broken.

It's working as intended, designed and is one of the premier chase cards in legacy.

Top 5 at worst.

I've heard no outcry from the people about it needing be nerfed?

More important, it's an integral piece of our legacy decks and events strategy calling us to limit the number of creatures we cast (Which the change will force)

Listen, if this is, in some way "Breaking the game" I'm all ears, but this card has been a staple for legacy players since it's release, and a north star for chase cards for newer players.

Please help us understand why this is happening.

With respect, and appreciation.

GozMaster

P.S. I value your thoughts all.

Please let Webcore know your thoughts here.

Nah no one saved urza saga let them keep gate also. ,🤔

NickBKK

Dev, you just went too far and crossed the sacred Legacy line here. Please undo the mistake and don’t do it again.

Janosik

Devs clearly haven't understood the rules of the game here, which is ok, they're new, it happens, but they should own the mistake and not make changes to Deploy

souki12

Well, it seems to me the nerf only affects what you see, but has no other effect. You don't need enough room in your hand nor the creatures are counted as casted.

Were we just too hysterical about it all? ;-)

Gunmix25

What has me confused is this.

1. Ashiok PW vanguard denied Any fetched card be it to the hand or battlefield when it first came out.
2. I reported it no longer working as it should when Deploy was cast.
3. When investigated they changed the code so that the interaction between the two cards.

4. Nothing changed in how Deploy works. Just that we see it in our hand for a flash and it's on the battlefield. They stated that despite the visuals we are seeing, the effect remains unchanged. The rules of the card is unchanged, how it is cast is unchanged. Had they not said anything, you'd know nothing of it had changed beyond the new weird viual flash to hand (which doesn't count as going to the hand.... as per design). Now ashiok vanguards works as intended. Deploy Still works as intended.

5. And everyone is still mad.... because...... why? Curious how this affected your decks before and after, because none of mine changed 🤔

Mainloop25

A big misunderstanding I guess?