Predator and Prey - 6/4 - 6/7 How does it feel to be hunted?

over_clocked

Everything is possible, I have seen entire rows and columns and 1/3 of the board of one colour multiple times, usually with mStorm but sometimes it just happens.

Unknown

I normally don't use anecdotal evidence but either I was seeing things (which is also quite possible) or the AI used Onslaught with 9 green AP with Juggernaut on the same team, so that's why I have reasons to believe something may have changed. I think it was one of those standard miracle cascade and I saw 9 green and figure 'oh, Unstoppable Crash', and then I took an Onslaught and died. That should not even be possible under the old way where the AI always use the most expensive ability available if it can use it.

over_clocked

I need to test this, too, but I am pretty positive that Hood/BP/LT isn't horribly hindered by Hood and BP's weaker yellows.
In fact I think just yesterday when I was playing the Sim there was an oBW/cMagneto enemy team (there was one, right?). They got 11 purple or some such and instead of using a level 5 Recon they translocated my Patch to heavens.

Der_Lex

I am mostly jealous that you're still seeing teams with jugs and ares. For me it's walls and walls of 141 teams. Screw you, MMR.

over_clocked

Der_Lex wrote:

I am mostly jealous that you're still seeing teams with jugs and ares. For me it's walls and walls of 141 teams. Screw you, MMR.

It was most probably the Sim node, with level 200 Juggs and Ares to boot. And they are much more dangerous than LT of the same level.

Der_Lex

locked wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

I am mostly jealous that you're still seeing teams with jugs and ares. For me it's walls and walls of 141 teams. Screw you, MMR.

It was most probably the Sim node, with level 200 Juggs and Ares to boot. And they are much more dangerous than LT of the same level.

Ah, that makes sense. Fortunately, I had my scaling well under control this time and didn't get any nodes over L130. Phew.

As for this PvP, I'm seeing so many fully leveled Panthers that it becomes somewhat tempting to do the same. However, I just don't see myself running him in any teams outside of when he's featured, so it seems like a bit of a waste of ISO that I'd rather invest in other characters as soon as I max out their covers. Choices, choices...

Bowgentle

Open Predator and Prey token.
See gold.
Think, 'Oh. Another Panther cover. I just sold 4 of them. Oh well, 500 ISO'.
Click.
...
...
...
'OMG, Daken blue!'
Guess I'll be going 5/3/5 now.

Thank you, RNGsus. 0.7 % chance indeed.

That's a little compensation for the 15 2*s I pulled from 15 sim tokens.

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

Open Predator and Prey token.
See gold.
Think, 'Oh. Another Panther cover. I just sold 4 of them. Oh well, 500 ISO'.
Click.
...
...
...
'OMG, Daken blue!'
Guess I'll be going 5/3/5 now.

Thank you, RNGsus. 0.7 % chance indeed.

That's a little compensation for the 15 2*s I pulled from 15 sim tokens.

Lucky you

I got the third Black BP cover of the day

kensterr

@locked Is your team combo a deterrent? Do you have lots of people attacking you or very few?

Dayv

Phantron wrote:

I normally don't use anecdotal evidence but either I was seeing things (which is also quite possible) or the AI used Onslaught with 9 green AP with Juggernaut on the same team, so that's why I have reasons to believe something may have changed. I think it was one of those standard miracle cascade and I saw 9 green and figure 'oh, Unstoppable Crash', and then I took an Onslaught and died. That should not even be possible under the old way where the AI always use the most expensive ability available if it can use it.

With Onslaught using all available AP, it's possible that the AI uses your current green total as the cost when choosing skills.

over_clocked

kensterr wrote:

@locked Is your team combo a deterrent? Do you have lots of people attacking you or very few?

As I run Mags with my LT and BP for now, he's probably a factor - got attacked 4 times at measly 300+ points.
I'll sub in Hood next and see what happens, but LT/BP/Hood never deterred me personally, either. Looks like the only possible deterrent might be Hulk(Sentry)/BP/LT for the pile of HP, and only in the last minutes of the tourney...

over_clocked

Went mirror team against Phantron's Hood/BP/LT, his team had 9 yellow twice and both times it used Battleplan immediately and didn't wait for Thunder Strike/Twin Pistols first time and just for Thunder Strike second time. I even gave them 5 yellow for the second.

Edit: another BP/LT team, at 9 yellow they used Battleplan immediately.

kensterr

Hmmmm, my experience with enemy teams is that if I used OBW they will keep the AP until I match OBW's colors, then BAM!

kidicarus

Phantron wrote:

morgh wrote:

Not really a fan of math and stuff but what the AI does is that if it has for example 3 available yellow skills (at 8 / 12/ 15), every time it has some AP, it does a roll, which can result in:
* at >=8 AP but <12 - either use the 8 AP skill or keep on playing (so a 50/50 chance)
* at >=12 but <15 - either use the 8 AP or use the 12 AP or keep playing (so a 33/33/33 chance)
* at >=15 - not sure but from what I have seen through my ~130 days of playing, this one has only one possible outcome - use the 15 AP skill

And the check/roll is done on every turn, which means that it IS POSSIBLE to forego all the cheaper skills for the more expensive one, but in no way can this be considered an act of conscious "saving" (ie - the completely random decision is made every turn instead of once, like we do for example at the beginning of the match)

I think they must have tweaked this, or at least made the AI with much stronger willpower. I saw my first Twin Pistols used by AI with both Battleplan (9) and Thunder Strike (12) reached but not used. Of course everything is a chance, but the chance of the AI not giving in to the temptation of using Battleplan or Thunder Strike when it has enough AP for them is practically 0 based on my past experience. Then again, I saw 7 yellow tiles dropped in a row of 8, and I'm pretty sure that's the first time I ever saw it, so I cannot rule out freak accident either.

Surely the math is moot considering the 1st person to go down would likely be hood and if you're letting the AI get 15yellow you're doing something really wrong.

2ndly, I've noticed this with AI. Whenever a hero goes down, the AI will likely use whatever skills they can based on the AP they have the first chance they get. In this case BP (most likely scenario).

Thirdly, just for laughs I tried my BP(128 unbuffed) and maxed LT/Hood against a maxed sentry/hulk/BP and discovered that rupture damage is easily mitigated by the presence of two (admittedly buffed) defence tiles.

SolidQ

BP/LT team, at 9 yellow they used Battleplan immediately

Thunder Strike AI will use, only when he get from cascades 12 yellow

GrumpySmurf1002

I haven't confirmed this of course, but I'm about 75% sure part of that theoretical "use an ability roll' involves the target health.

I've had plenty of battles where the AI has has held back a power with lower AP while my tank was out, and then it whacked OBW when it got an opening.

Unknown

locked wrote:

I need to test this, too, but I am pretty positive that Hood/BP/LT isn't horribly hindered by Hood and BP's weaker yellows.
In fact I think just yesterday when I was playing the Sim there was an oBW/cMagneto enemy team (there was one, right?). They got 11 purple or some such and instead of using a level 5 Recon they translocated my Patch to heavens.

Yeah, like I said, I highly suspect the AI now simply picks an ability ahead of time and sticks to that plan. Sure, they can still pick the wrong ability to use, but they'll no longer simply give up 3 turns while saving up for Rage of the Panther and allow you to easily take an Intimidation instead. Note that they can always choose to use Intimidation from start, but if they picked Rage, it's coming no matter how long it takes as long as BP didn't die.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I haven't confirmed this of course, but I'm about 75% sure part of that theoretical "use an ability roll' involves the target health.

I've had plenty of battles where the AI has has held back a power with lower AP while my tank was out, and then it whacked OBW when it got an opening.

Um, that's the 'AI only use ability on Spiderman' bias effect, and that's because you care a lot about Spiderman (or OBW) than someone else so you notice it more when they randomly use their ability on Spiderman instead of someone else.

Unknown

I need to point out that whether the AI changed or not, if you're expecting it to always save up for Rage that's not going to happen either. There needs to be a lot of testing, but the AI always saved up for ability but it gives up way too easily. If the AI has 9 black AP with The Hood + BP, you'll see the AI use ability like this (numbers are made up, but they're consistent with my past experience)

Use Intimidation immediately - 50%
Save up 1 turn and then use Intimidation (or Rage if it hits 12AP)- 24%
Save up 2 turns and then use Intimidation - 24%
Save up 3 turns or more - 2%

The AI almost never successfully wait long enough to save up in its existing algorithm.

Now if the AI is indeed change, the point is not that it will always use the more expensive ability. It's that it will actually have more patience than about 2 turns before giving up. It is still entirely free to simply not save up, but if the AI does decide to save up it seems to not change its mind immediately after 2 turns. This means you'd probably expect Rage to be used about 50% of the time over Intimidation, and Thunder Strike used about 50% of the time over Battleplan. Currently the chance of both being actually used is close to 0%. Realistically it can only happen if the AI got to 12 AP in one move. I cannot confirm if the AI is changed, but the AI saving up 12 AP is just so unusual that it's worth investigating. Like I said I had the AI save up 15 AP for Twin Pistols, which I don't recall ever seeing it happen. That is not to say getting 15 AP is unusual for the AI, but hitting 9 AP and skipping Battleplan for multiple turns, and then hitting 12 AP and skipping Thunder Strike for multiple turns until finally hitting 15 AP is something I've never seen before.

over_clocked

Had an Ares/BP matchup, the AI used Sunder instead of Battleplan (they had 11 yellow I think).

Not noticing any fewer attacks just because I run BP/LT/Hood - many offenders are Patch/Magneto, whoever/Magneto, one team was GSBW/LD (weird but apparently workable). I just switched to Patch/Mags to grind some ISO.