We Need To Talk About Yellowjacket And His Infinite Invisibility

UnityGamer
UnityGamer Posts: 44 Just Dropped In
in MPQ General Discussion

Yellowjacket’s Blue power That Shrinking Feeling turns him invisible for a base two turns. When he makes a Black, Blue or Green match, he gains an extra turn of invisibility.

And I’m not starting to like this power. The instant he activates it, he basically becomes invincible. In my last match, I tried to wait out the invisibility turns as much as I could, but he kept making matches that kept him hidden, including from cascades. He actually reached six turns of invisibility. As soon as he finally became targetable again, he activated another Blue power session thanks to the cascades from his previous session.

My theory was, the only way Yellowjacket would leave invisibility is for him to down one of my heroes, from which he would stop making Green, Blue or Black matches. Losing one of my heroes just to make Yellowjacket beatable worked twice, but this last battle it was a no-go; he ended up reactivating his Blue power. This left me no choice but to retreat and take the loss.

I feel that Yellowjacket’s Blue power needs to be nerfed. A long time ago, when he first debuted, I did an experiment to see if he could reach 10 turns of invisibility - turns out he can, providing you’re very clever with Blue, Black and Green matches. Imagine if he were a Deadpool Daily feature and he attempted this tactic. Some recommendations for nerfing would be capping the number of turns he can stay invisible, exiting invisibility when a hero is downed, or spending AP while invisible per turn instead of actual turns.

Before I start crossing my heart, I would like to get other player’s views on That Shrinking Feeling. When you a face a roster with Yellowjacket, is the turn-gaining aspect fair? Does he prioritize Black, Blue, and Green tiles too much? Do you feel that your hero needs to be downed in order for Yellowjacket to become beatable?

In other words, what are your thoughts on Yellowjacket’s Blue power?

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Comments

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    It was designed to be very annoying but take a character who does AOE or random damage and you can hit YJ when invisible. Or stun him ASAP or take him airbourne. 4* Vulture is much the same (except there are far fewer airbourne counter characters).

  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 596 Critical Contributor

    To be fair, his invisibility is not great with the ai.

    I think if you took a better team in you'd do better. Or, target him first.

    Generally you can take him down before he goes invisible in the first place.

    If not, ihulk that bad boy

  • UnityGamer
    UnityGamer Posts: 44 Just Dropped In

    @DAZ0273 said:
    It was designed to be very annoying but take a character who does AOE or random damage and you can hit YJ when invisible. Or stun him ASAP or take him airbourne. 4* Vulture is much the same (except there are far fewer airbourne counter characters).

    I tried to do that, actually. I had Wong in that said battle, and used his Away ability to summon Doctor Strange so that can stun Yellowjacket, but it didn’t work. Strange’s Crimson Bands Of Cytorak is a stun-targeting move, perhaps that’s why it didn’t work while he was invisible. And I actually had no AOE-targeting characters on my roster. What made it even more complicated: Shang-Chi. So I was forced to choose how to lose: downed by invisibility, or downed by critical tiles, precision strike healing, and deadly damage increasing.

    The match in question: Reptil-Shang Chi-Wong vs. Reptil-Shang Chi-Yellowjacket in a Reptil PVP match.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2023

    I assume this is a Class of 2021 issue so no iHulk available. If not though - plenty of options including Omega Red?

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @UnityGamer said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    It was designed to be very annoying but take a character who does AOE or random damage and you can hit YJ when invisible. Or stun him ASAP or take him airbourne. 4* Vulture is much the same (except there are far fewer airbourne counter characters).

    I tried to do that, actually. I had Wong in that said battle, and used his Away ability to summon Doctor Strange so that can stun Yellowjacket, but it didn’t work. Strange’s Crimson Bands Of Cytorak is a stun-targeting move, perhaps that’s why it didn’t work while he was invisible. And I actually had no AOE-targeting characters on my roster. What made it even more complicated: Shang-Chi. So I was forced to choose how to lose: downed by invisibility, or downed by critical tiles, precision strike healing, and deadly damage increasing.

    The match in question: Reptil-Shang Chi-Wong vs. Reptil-Shang Chi-Yellowjacket in a Reptil PVP match.

    Strange's blue cannot target random enemies, so no that would not work.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    So target him first, your Shang should easily down him before he goes invis.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    Apocalypse black definitely works on invisible characters but obviously no idea of your roster.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I assume this is a Class of 2021 issue so no iHulk available. If not though - plenty of options including Omega Red?

    He's running Wong, it's the Reptil pvp.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Bowgentle said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    I assume this is a Class of 2021 issue so no iHulk available. If not though - plenty of options including Omega Red?

    He's running Wong, it's the Reptil pvp.

    Yes I see that I got that wong in my answer!

  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yellowjacket is barely a problem when boosted.
    It's actually nice to see Yellowjacket getting some use instead of the usual suspects. I'd fight him all day instead of Wanda, who is by far WAY more annoying.

  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards

    It already was nerfed! They rebalanced him then quickly changed how his additional damage works.

    You just have to target him first and bring 1* BW TUs to stun him while invisible. The only reason he's annoying right now is cause of the current Class of 2021. Otherwise you'll rarely see him

  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 999 Critical Contributor

    I find YJ fun to play with, but don't really struggle fighting against him.
    I hardly ever see him in pick-2, but do occasionally in Sim pick-3. Yes, at my MMR when I see him he is either under-covered or baby-champed, but PolarisJuggsGrocket squishes him like the bug he is. Juggs' AOE breaks through his invisibility with no problem.

    If you truly have no AOE characters, Deathlok/Kang could also work. Use the autogenerating blue AP to Kang-Away him. And if for some reason YJ goes invisible before you can Away him, then shoot him with Deathlok's blue (which ignores invisibility). You want to be chasing/denying blue, anyway.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    Might be worth listing out the non-AoE, non-random counters to invisibility.

    Deathlok blue
    War Machine blue (but not against YJ?)
    Elsa red

    What are the others?

    Do Peggy and 5Riri's stuns work?

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    Peggy no as she has to target somebody. Riri don't know - probably not?

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    He's like Vulture -- annoying, for sure, but generally not dangerous. He's definitely a kill-first priority, and he doesn't generate his own blue, so you can deny it to keep him from going invisible.

    Also a lot of people don't have him, or skipped him completely, because he was released during the Okoye/Hulk metagame, when going invisible was completely useless.

    If you do randomly find a very high-level one, you'd probably do best to just avoid him. Mine is lvl500, and I've gotten a bunch of wipes this week from players who didn't expect him to cause trouble.

  • DrClever
    DrClever Posts: 584 Critical Contributor

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Peggy no as she has to target somebody. Riri don't know - probably not?

    You'd need it not to be YJ on his own but her stun hits the non-targets on the opposition team, I just don't know if it affects invisible.

    This is where we want a sandbox mode.

    Isn't there someone who targets the rearmost character?

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,236 Chairperson of the Boards

    The random stun part of 4* Gamora's stun can hit an invisible character provided there is a front character to stun.

    KGB

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards

    @DrClever said:

    @DAZ0273 said:
    Peggy no as she has to target somebody. Riri don't know - probably not?

    You'd need it not to be YJ on his own but her stun hits the non-targets on the opposition team, I just don't know if it affects invisible.

    This is where we want a sandbox mode.

    Isn't there someone who targets the rearmost character?

    It doesn't count invisible characters as an available target as far as I am aware.

    4* Riri hits back characters but I also don't think she can hit invisible.

    Could be wrong of course.

  • skittledaddy
    skittledaddy Posts: 999 Critical Contributor

    4SpGwen's random stun can negate invisibility. I used to use it all the time against 4ProfX.
    Peggy does, as well, as long as there is a non-invisible target to allow the ability to be fired.

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